What to charge for mileage
- Thread starter So. Dak.
- Start date
James Lindley
New member
So. Dak, you never said anything about having farm plates...
If you have a wreck and the person other than you involved finds out that you are hauling for profit other than what your farm plates cover (hauling tractors for a dealership doesn't qualify under farm use plates so you would be in violation there ) you will find out what I am talking about. I can assure you that a serious accident can set you back millions of dollars. I don't like that but it is fact.
Yes you can get away with a lot with farms plates. But farm plates will only take you so far. When you cross a state line the other side doesn't care as they are generally only good in the state that you live in..
If your plates are like they are here in Texas they are good for anything that has to do with operation of a personal or commercial farm and ranch. Along with that you can use the plated vehicle for going to school, going to the doctor, going after groceries, and a few more unmentioned things as long as it is within 100 miles of your registered address..when you cross a state line with Texas farm tags you have violated law in the oppossing state. Most of the time the other state turns a blind eye as a coutesy to the farmer..
When you start to haul commercially outside of your farm operation all the rules and regulations change. That is fact no matter how you feel about it, and it won't change...
A lot of people do not know that interstate hauling in a commercial sense has had a recent change of DOT law that requires you to complete a log book as well as a commercial liscence if you are more than 100 miles away from your registered address. That includes all those little guys like you with the one tons hauling cars, tractors from dealerships, etc..
100 miles is all that USDOT FMCSA part 393 allows you (FMCSA= Federal motor carrier safety act) to go without a log book. USDOT covers all interstate (over state lines and boundaries) carrier laws. Intrastate (inside your home state lines and boundaries) laws will be covered by your inhouse (state dot) laws.
Texas allows us 150 miles inside the state lines without having to run a log book as long as we fill out a vehicle pre trip inspection report at the beginning of each shift and we do not work over 12 hours with at least ten hours off after each 12...
Whereas USDOT allows you 14 consecutive hours of on duty status with only 11 of those driving, with ten hours off after each fourteen spent on duty.
But that is another hornets nest ...........
Do what you wish.. You asked what you needed and you've been told.. It is now up to you.
If you think I am in error /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif(as I might well be concerning your individual state), ask a DOT representative and he'll be glad to sit down and listen to what you are wanting to do and he'll tell you exactly what you need to do it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif.
They (The DOT ) aren't an enemy. Unless you are doing wrong. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif......James L..
If you have a wreck and the person other than you involved finds out that you are hauling for profit other than what your farm plates cover (hauling tractors for a dealership doesn't qualify under farm use plates so you would be in violation there ) you will find out what I am talking about. I can assure you that a serious accident can set you back millions of dollars. I don't like that but it is fact.
Yes you can get away with a lot with farms plates. But farm plates will only take you so far. When you cross a state line the other side doesn't care as they are generally only good in the state that you live in..
If your plates are like they are here in Texas they are good for anything that has to do with operation of a personal or commercial farm and ranch. Along with that you can use the plated vehicle for going to school, going to the doctor, going after groceries, and a few more unmentioned things as long as it is within 100 miles of your registered address..when you cross a state line with Texas farm tags you have violated law in the oppossing state. Most of the time the other state turns a blind eye as a coutesy to the farmer..
When you start to haul commercially outside of your farm operation all the rules and regulations change. That is fact no matter how you feel about it, and it won't change...
A lot of people do not know that interstate hauling in a commercial sense has had a recent change of DOT law that requires you to complete a log book as well as a commercial liscence if you are more than 100 miles away from your registered address. That includes all those little guys like you with the one tons hauling cars, tractors from dealerships, etc..
100 miles is all that USDOT FMCSA part 393 allows you (FMCSA= Federal motor carrier safety act) to go without a log book. USDOT covers all interstate (over state lines and boundaries) carrier laws. Intrastate (inside your home state lines and boundaries) laws will be covered by your inhouse (state dot) laws.
Texas allows us 150 miles inside the state lines without having to run a log book as long as we fill out a vehicle pre trip inspection report at the beginning of each shift and we do not work over 12 hours with at least ten hours off after each 12...
Whereas USDOT allows you 14 consecutive hours of on duty status with only 11 of those driving, with ten hours off after each fourteen spent on duty.
But that is another hornets nest ...........
Do what you wish.. You asked what you needed and you've been told.. It is now up to you.
If you think I am in error /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif(as I might well be concerning your individual state), ask a DOT representative and he'll be glad to sit down and listen to what you are wanting to do and he'll tell you exactly what you need to do it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif.
They (The DOT ) aren't an enemy. Unless you are doing wrong. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif......James L..
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
If you go out of state you definitely need apportioned tags and the fuel tax filings.
Both a big PITA and cost money.
The fuel tax thing is just a PITA. The apportioned tags cost you a bundle. When you get your apportioned tags you have to pay more money that gets forwarded to every state you might drive in, doesn't matter if you never go there, but you can not go to any state you have not listed and paid for.
Can we say; "getting rid of small operators"?
Jack
Both a big PITA and cost money.
The fuel tax thing is just a PITA. The apportioned tags cost you a bundle. When you get your apportioned tags you have to pay more money that gets forwarded to every state you might drive in, doesn't matter if you never go there, but you can not go to any state you have not listed and paid for.
Can we say; "getting rid of small operators"?
Jack
It is legal to haul for profit in SD with farm plates. If you are hauling with farm plates and travel more than 100 miles from home you need a CDL in SD.
That is what Carrier Enforcement and the SD Hiway Patrol explained to me when I got checked hauling corn in my buddy's truck with farm plates. Also told me I did not need a log book-don't remember the specifics there.
Farm plates also give you a 10% cushion for being overweight but that might be just for ag products.
Best thing to do is check with the SD DOT.
That is what Carrier Enforcement and the SD Hiway Patrol explained to me when I got checked hauling corn in my buddy's truck with farm plates. Also told me I did not need a log book-don't remember the specifics there.
Farm plates also give you a 10% cushion for being overweight but that might be just for ag products.
Best thing to do is check with the SD DOT.
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Tommy Johnson
New member
The Fed. DOT requires drivers of any vehicle(s) that exceed 26,001 lbs GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating) to have a Class 'A' CDL.
To obtain the GCWR you would add the tow vehicles GVWR with the weight of both trailer and load.
I.E. My 3/4 ton has a GVWR of 9200 lbs. So if I tie onto a 7,700 lb 32' float trailer (used by most "hot shots"). Then I would have 9,101 lbs left to play with before I met that 26,001 lb requirement. Depending on the weight and amount of how many tractors you plan to haul, you may be way under that requirement but some of the medium to larger tractors are awful heavy.
To obtain the GCWR you would add the tow vehicles GVWR with the weight of both trailer and load.
I.E. My 3/4 ton has a GVWR of 9200 lbs. So if I tie onto a 7,700 lb 32' float trailer (used by most "hot shots"). Then I would have 9,101 lbs left to play with before I met that 26,001 lb requirement. Depending on the weight and amount of how many tractors you plan to haul, you may be way under that requirement but some of the medium to larger tractors are awful heavy.
yuccabush
New member
I could be wrong because I don't have my book in front of me right now. From what I do remember is if your truck has a gvwr of greater than 10001# and you are hauling accross state lines you are subject to log book rules and you are also required to have a DOT health card.
The minute your truck and trailer go over 26001 #s you have to have a class A cdl. Be carefull because dot rule breakers are injury lawyers wet dreams.
The minute your truck and trailer go over 26001 #s you have to have a class A cdl. Be carefull because dot rule breakers are injury lawyers wet dreams.
For what Jeff is doing he doesn't need a Class A CDL
Class A License - Combination Vehicles — Any combination of vehicles with gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds falls in Group A, providing the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. Most Class A vehicles are trucks such as tractor-trailer or truck and trailer combinations. Driving a Class A vehicle requires considerably more skill and knowledge than driving vehicles in Classes B and C. Since these skills include those required to drive a B and C (with appropriate endorsements) vehicle, a driver who has a Class A license also may drive vehicles in Classes B and C.
Class B License - Heavy Straight Vehicles — Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds falls in Group B, or any such vehicle towing another vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR. Class B includes straight trucks and large buses. Safely driving these heavy vehicles requires considerably more knowledge and skill than driving the small trucks and buses found in Class C. Since they include the skills required to drive Class C (with appropriate endorsements) vehicles, drivers who have qualified for a Class B license may also drive vehicles in Class C.
Class C License - Small Vehicles — Any single vehicle with a GVWR less than 26,001 pounds falls in Group C, or any such vehicle towing another vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR. However, vehicles of this size are included in the Commercial Driver License (CDL) program only if they are: 1) Designed to carry 16 or more passengers including the driver, or 2) Used to transport hazardous materials in quantities requiring placarding under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR Part 172, Subpart F).
Here are the CDL exemptions for farm plates in SD.
Operators exempt from provisions of §§ 32-12A-1 to 32-12A-58, inclusive
32-12A-9. Operators exempt from provisions of §§ 32-12A-1 to 32-12A-58, inclusive. The following are exempt from the provisions of §§ 32-12A-1 to 32-12A-50, inclusive, 32-12A-51, and 32-12A-52 to 32-12A-58, inclusive:
(1) Operators involved in farm to market transportation movements, at least sixteen years of age holding a valid operator's license, limited to those operators of a farm vehicle:
(a) Controlled and operated by a farmer;
(b) Used to transport either agricultural products, farm machinery or farm supplies to or from a farm; and
(c) Not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier;
(2) Operators of emergency fire fighting equipment necessary to the preservation of life or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions performed under emergency conditions that are not subject to normal traffic regulation, or nonemergency conditions when operated by members of a fire fighting agency;
(3) Operators of military vehicles for military purposes including:
(a) Active duty military personnel;
(b) Members of the military reserves;
(c) Members of the national guard on active duty, including personnel on full-time national guard duty, personnel on part-time national guard training and national guard military technicians (civilians who are required to wear military uniforms); and
(d) Active duty U.S. Coast Guard personnel;
(4) Operators of recreational vehicles; and
(5) Operators of rental transporting equipment used as personal family use vehicles.
United States reserve technicians are not exempt under the provisions of subdivision (3) of this section.
Source: SL 1989, ch 267, § 7; SL 1995, ch 180; SDCL 32-12-85; SL 2001, ch 171, §§ 79, 115; SL 2004, ch 213, § 2.
The SD DOT website has all the information. Best bet is to call them.
Class A License - Combination Vehicles — Any combination of vehicles with gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds falls in Group A, providing the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. Most Class A vehicles are trucks such as tractor-trailer or truck and trailer combinations. Driving a Class A vehicle requires considerably more skill and knowledge than driving vehicles in Classes B and C. Since these skills include those required to drive a B and C (with appropriate endorsements) vehicle, a driver who has a Class A license also may drive vehicles in Classes B and C.
Class B License - Heavy Straight Vehicles — Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds falls in Group B, or any such vehicle towing another vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR. Class B includes straight trucks and large buses. Safely driving these heavy vehicles requires considerably more knowledge and skill than driving the small trucks and buses found in Class C. Since they include the skills required to drive Class C (with appropriate endorsements) vehicles, drivers who have qualified for a Class B license may also drive vehicles in Class C.
Class C License - Small Vehicles — Any single vehicle with a GVWR less than 26,001 pounds falls in Group C, or any such vehicle towing another vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR. However, vehicles of this size are included in the Commercial Driver License (CDL) program only if they are: 1) Designed to carry 16 or more passengers including the driver, or 2) Used to transport hazardous materials in quantities requiring placarding under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR Part 172, Subpart F).
Here are the CDL exemptions for farm plates in SD.
Operators exempt from provisions of §§ 32-12A-1 to 32-12A-58, inclusive
32-12A-9. Operators exempt from provisions of §§ 32-12A-1 to 32-12A-58, inclusive. The following are exempt from the provisions of §§ 32-12A-1 to 32-12A-50, inclusive, 32-12A-51, and 32-12A-52 to 32-12A-58, inclusive:
(1) Operators involved in farm to market transportation movements, at least sixteen years of age holding a valid operator's license, limited to those operators of a farm vehicle:
(a) Controlled and operated by a farmer;
(b) Used to transport either agricultural products, farm machinery or farm supplies to or from a farm; and
(c) Not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier;
(2) Operators of emergency fire fighting equipment necessary to the preservation of life or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions performed under emergency conditions that are not subject to normal traffic regulation, or nonemergency conditions when operated by members of a fire fighting agency;
(3) Operators of military vehicles for military purposes including:
(a) Active duty military personnel;
(b) Members of the military reserves;
(c) Members of the national guard on active duty, including personnel on full-time national guard duty, personnel on part-time national guard training and national guard military technicians (civilians who are required to wear military uniforms); and
(d) Active duty U.S. Coast Guard personnel;
(4) Operators of recreational vehicles; and
(5) Operators of rental transporting equipment used as personal family use vehicles.
United States reserve technicians are not exempt under the provisions of subdivision (3) of this section.
Source: SL 1989, ch 267, § 7; SL 1995, ch 180; SDCL 32-12-85; SL 2001, ch 171, §§ 79, 115; SL 2004, ch 213, § 2.
The SD DOT website has all the information. Best bet is to call them.
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Tommy Johnson
New member
Youre probably correct about calling and finding out. Im not all up on farm vehicles, well not any at all. But if he is hauling new equipment to a distributor and James already expressed that that doesnt fall under "farm" use that tells me he would be an everyday big fish if he was to ever exceed that 26,001 requirement.
Im just a varmint hunter So Dak. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Im just a varmint hunter So Dak. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
James Lindley
New member
Quote:
(c) Not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier;
When you go after that tractor and bring it back for pay you have become a contract motor carrier and are subject to USDOT law. Which will require you to have authority, dot numbers for your truck, dot health card as well..
Your farm plates are not for doing that either. It tells you right there in front of you.. Very straight to the point but between the lines. Someone not experinced with DOT law would not be able to pick up on what they are saying...
Common carriers are ones that operate a commercial vehicle(s) for the carrying of goods and contract haulers are ones that do like you guys are talking about and go after a specific item for pay. Most contract haulers operate flatbeds..
Quote:
any such vehicle towing another vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR...
GVWR is the gross vehicle weight ratio.. This includes the weight that the intended vehicle is able to legally (plated)haul.
We have already established that the farm plates are not good for what is being intended..
When you plate a vehicle such as yours , you have a GVWR (gross vehicle weight ratio) that comes into play. The ratio means both together combined.
You will also note that it keeps referring to a towed vehicle (trailer) not exceeding 10,000 lbs. If either the truck or the trailer along with the weight you are hauling in it goes over that weight (10,000lbs) you have reached overload in the eyes of the law as well as having jumped to the next class of liscence.
While a semi has a legal gvwr of up to 80,000 you can only have so much weight on each axle or you are again in violation..
Texas is no more than 12,000 on the front axle, 34000 on the rear truck axles and no more than 34,000 on the trailer axles. That is how you get a Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio.
Here in Texas the fine for being over axle is around 1000 dollars the last time I got one... (been a while)
For being over weight it is 1800 dollars. Never have had one so far..
Yo ucan see how going off half cocked can lead to some serious fines..
I know that all of this is above your initial question but it is some good advice if you choose to head it and to use it.
It might very well save you some serious heartache.. James L...
but then what do I know... lol.......
.
(c) Not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier;
When you go after that tractor and bring it back for pay you have become a contract motor carrier and are subject to USDOT law. Which will require you to have authority, dot numbers for your truck, dot health card as well..
Your farm plates are not for doing that either. It tells you right there in front of you.. Very straight to the point but between the lines. Someone not experinced with DOT law would not be able to pick up on what they are saying...
Common carriers are ones that operate a commercial vehicle(s) for the carrying of goods and contract haulers are ones that do like you guys are talking about and go after a specific item for pay. Most contract haulers operate flatbeds..
Quote:
any such vehicle towing another vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR...
GVWR is the gross vehicle weight ratio.. This includes the weight that the intended vehicle is able to legally (plated)haul.
We have already established that the farm plates are not good for what is being intended..
When you plate a vehicle such as yours , you have a GVWR (gross vehicle weight ratio) that comes into play. The ratio means both together combined.
You will also note that it keeps referring to a towed vehicle (trailer) not exceeding 10,000 lbs. If either the truck or the trailer along with the weight you are hauling in it goes over that weight (10,000lbs) you have reached overload in the eyes of the law as well as having jumped to the next class of liscence.
While a semi has a legal gvwr of up to 80,000 you can only have so much weight on each axle or you are again in violation..
Texas is no more than 12,000 on the front axle, 34000 on the rear truck axles and no more than 34,000 on the trailer axles. That is how you get a Gross Vehicle Weight Ratio.
Here in Texas the fine for being over axle is around 1000 dollars the last time I got one... (been a while)
For being over weight it is 1800 dollars. Never have had one so far..
Yo ucan see how going off half cocked can lead to some serious fines..
I know that all of this is above your initial question but it is some good advice if you choose to head it and to use it.
It might very well save you some serious heartache.. James L...
but then what do I know... lol.......
.
James Lindley
New member
So. Dak.. Now that you have waded through all this mess lol.. I came up with a possible solution to you being able to do this legally with the equipement that you have and still being able to make a little money.
I feel that you are after both of those aspects.
Go to wherever you get plates for your vehicle and ask about a temporary permit called a "144 hour permit".
This is a permit that is issued for commercial equipement that can't normally be tagged as such for some reason or other. It is also used by some truckers as a way of getting tags for a truck that is only used once in a while as well as temporary plates for such.
Here they cost 50 dollars and are good for 144 hours of use.
In other words if you get the plate on Monday morning it is good for a period of 144 hours from the time it was issued.
If you time it right with the dealer this would allow you to run up to that 26,000 lb limit as that is about as far as they will plate a one ton and will require you to carry an aditional amount of insurance (probably 250,000 minimum liability) but that is still a good thing as you can never have enough if it is needed..
It might be a viable alternative for you to consider in this adventure..
Also ask about that class A cdl as they aren't hard to obtain and I know that you can obtain a class B with what you already have... They are worth while to allow you to go further and do more........ James L.
I feel that you are after both of those aspects.
Go to wherever you get plates for your vehicle and ask about a temporary permit called a "144 hour permit".
This is a permit that is issued for commercial equipement that can't normally be tagged as such for some reason or other. It is also used by some truckers as a way of getting tags for a truck that is only used once in a while as well as temporary plates for such.
Here they cost 50 dollars and are good for 144 hours of use.
In other words if you get the plate on Monday morning it is good for a period of 144 hours from the time it was issued.
If you time it right with the dealer this would allow you to run up to that 26,000 lb limit as that is about as far as they will plate a one ton and will require you to carry an aditional amount of insurance (probably 250,000 minimum liability) but that is still a good thing as you can never have enough if it is needed..
It might be a viable alternative for you to consider in this adventure..
Also ask about that class A cdl as they aren't hard to obtain and I know that you can obtain a class B with what you already have... They are worth while to allow you to go further and do more........ James L.
.75-.95 cents a mile is the going rate for equipment hauling in the mid-west.fuel surcharge is seperate from the equipment charge.10-25% of the total bill is the usual fuel surcharge.your total gross vehicle an trailor weight will determine your cdl class an you truck an trailor tags.then you have fuel tax per each state or (IFTA) Stickers.Theres a lot more to it than loadin up an hauling.
Good luck.
Jim
Good luck.
Jim