whats a good upper with fair price new to AR world

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Originally Posted By: dw32005I got a Palmettostatearmory upper last week for 269, this didn't include the BCG or charging handle though.

Palmetto State Armory offers some very nice kits and uppers at great prices. I recently built a carbine from one of their kits for a coworker and was suprised at the quality. If their 16 inch upper with the FN hammer forged barrel is in stock that would be an excellent choice.
 
+ on Palmetto State Armory. I recently got one of the uppers with the FN hammer forged barrels also, was very pleased with the quality and price.
You may have to keep watching stock as they sell out fast.
 

REALLY??? ARE WE REALLY GOING TO BEAT THIS FREAKING DEAD HORSE AGAIN?


Originally Posted By: mj36639Originally Posted By: biggen0_8.556/.556x45/.223 all the same.

5.56 and .223 are not the same. Case dimensions for both are identical and caliber is identical. The difference lies in the angle and length of the leade and a longer freebore of the 5.56 chamber. This enables 5.56 ammunition to be loaded to a higher pressure and velocitiy than the .223 which has a SAMMI max pressure of 55K PSI.

.223 ammuntion with it's lower pressure/velocity can be safely fired all day long in a 5.56 chamber. 5.56 ammunition like Federal XM193 should not be fired in .223 chambers. 5.56 ammunition may safely be fired in 5.56 or .223 Wylde chambers only.

An easy way to describe the difference is to compare the chamber differences to a speed bump. It takes more energy to overcome the resistance of a speed bump if you stop at it's base before driving over it than it does if your vehicle is already in motion. The 5.56 chamber with it's shallower leade and longer freebore allows the bullet time to gain momentum and velocity before encountering the rifling. This is why 5.56 ammunition can be safely loaded to a higher pressure and velocity(ie.more powder).

Here is an excellent discussion on the specific differences between 5.56 and .223 chambers.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55149
 
Typical 5.56 chambers in military weapons have longer throngs to accommodate the long-for-weight steel core bullets. A 62 gr steel core is considerably longer then a lead core bullet in the same weight. There is no definitive chamber with either designator. We have Wylde chambers, proprietary tweaks on leads, and some chambers are cut for specific bullets. This makes a big differance, at time. But it's not just limited to 5.56 vs 223 rem.


The cartridges operate at the same pressures, they are measure at differently. One is SAMMI and the other is NATO specs.

There are tons of different little tweaks and minute changes that smiths and manufactures make to chambers to make it seem like the next big thing. In the end, it's all the same.

Most problems arise when joe blow bet his AR that has a short chamber. He loads up some mil-Surp stuff, jamming the lands, and has issues. Now, the sky begins to fall and every 223 rem stamped chamber is deemed unsafe for 5.56 ammo.

Look at this chart. It has a few reamers listed. There is even 5.56 with the same free-bore as standard 223 dimensions. And there is a 223 reamer with much more free-bore than the 5.56 reamers.

http://ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf

064ef8e2ff443b6cd387d5eab8db5da6.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: biggen0_8
REALLY??? ARE WE REALLY GOING TO BEAT THIS FREAKING DEAD HORSE AGAIN?


Originally Posted By: mj36639Originally Posted By: biggen0_8.556/.556x45/.223 all the same.

5.56 and .223 are not the same. Case dimensions for both are identical and caliber is identical. The difference lies in the angle and length of the leade and a longer freebore of the 5.56 chamber. This enables 5.56 ammunition to be loaded to a higher pressure and velocitiy than the .223 which has a SAMMI max pressure of 55K PSI.

.223 ammuntion with it's lower pressure/velocity can be safely fired all day long in a 5.56 chamber. 5.56 ammunition like Federal XM193 should not be fired in .223 chambers. 5.56 ammunition may safely be fired in 5.56 or .223 Wylde chambers only.

An easy way to describe the difference is to compare the chamber differences to a speed bump. It takes more energy to overcome the resistance of a speed bump if you stop at it's base before driving over it than it does if your vehicle is already in motion. The 5.56 chamber with it's shallower leade and longer freebore allows the bullet time to gain momentum and velocity before encountering the rifling. This is why 5.56 ammunition can be safely loaded to a higher pressure and velocity(ie.more powder).

Here is an excellent discussion on the specific differences between 5.56 and .223 chambers.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55149


What dead horse is that? Do actually have anything to add or are you just wasting electrons?
 
Originally Posted By: mj36639Originally Posted By: biggen0_8.556/.556x45/.223 all the same.

5.56 and .223 are not the same. Case dimensions for both are identical and caliber is identical. The difference lies in the angle and length of the leade and a longer freebore of the 5.56 chamber. This enables 5.56 ammunition to be loaded to a higher pressure and velocitiy than the .223 which has a SAMMI max pressure of 55K PSI.

.223 ammuntion with it's lower pressure/velocity can be safely fired all day long in a 5.56 chamber. 5.56 ammunition like Federal XM193 should not be fired in .223 chambers. 5.56 ammunition may safely be fired in 5.56 or .223 Wylde chambers only.

An easy way to describe the difference is to compare the chamber differences to a speed bump. It takes more energy to overcome the resistance of a speed bump if you stop at it's base before driving over it than it does if your vehicle is already in motion. The 5.56 chamber with it's shallower leade and longer freebore allows the bullet time to gain momentum and velocity before encountering the rifling. This is why 5.56 ammunition can be safely loaded to a higher pressure and velocity(ie.more powder).

Here is an excellent discussion on the specific differences between 5.56 and .223 chambers.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55149




Did you read that in book or I see now INTERNET!
lol.gif
lol.gif
rolleyes.gif
 
Originally Posted By: roode301Originally Posted By: mj36639Originally Posted By: biggen0_8.556/.556x45/.223 all the same.

5.56 and .223 are not the same. Case dimensions for both are identical and caliber is identical. The difference lies in the angle and length of the leade and a longer freebore of the 5.56 chamber. This enables 5.56 ammunition to be loaded to a higher pressure and velocitiy than the .223 which has a SAMMI max pressure of 55K PSI.

.223 ammuntion with it's lower pressure/velocity can be safely fired all day long in a 5.56 chamber. 5.56 ammunition like Federal XM193 should not be fired in .223 chambers. 5.56 ammunition may safely be fired in 5.56 or .223 Wylde chambers only.

An easy way to describe the difference is to compare the chamber differences to a speed bump. It takes more energy to overcome the resistance of a speed bump if you stop at it's base before driving over it than it does if your vehicle is already in motion. The 5.56 chamber with it's shallower leade and longer freebore allows the bullet time to gain momentum and velocity before encountering the rifling. This is why 5.56 ammunition can be safely loaded to a higher pressure and velocity(ie.more powder).

Here is an excellent discussion on the specific differences between 5.56 and .223 chambers.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55149



Did you read that in book or I see now INTERNET!
lol.gif
lol.gif
rolleyes.gif


Everytime I visit this forum I feel like Galileo Galilei trying to explain heliocentrism to Cardinal Bellermine and Pope Paul V
lol.gif

 
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"Everytime I visit this forum I feel like Galileo Galilei trying to explain heliocentrism to Cardinal Bellermine and Pope Paul V."

Maybe you should try talking to people instead of down to people. Lol
 
I build almost all of my own AR's, most sport AR Performance barrels. My latest is a lightweight ,223 Wylde chambered 'volunteer' gun, volunteer being those coyotes that stand there and look at you as you are driving and 'volunteer' to be exterminated.

ARP will build the upper for you. Here is my volunteer gun, which I wanted for the truck, so I wanted to be lightweight and used the NF LW-15 polymer lower, total weight is 5.5 pounds. Scope is a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot.

146650578.jpg
 
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Originally Posted By: mj36639Originally Posted By: roode301Originally Posted By: mj36639Originally Posted By: biggen0_8.556/.556x45/.223 all the same.

5.56 and .223 are not the same. Case dimensions for both are identical and caliber is identical. The difference lies in the angle and length of the leade and a longer freebore of the 5.56 chamber. This enables 5.56 ammunition to be loaded to a higher pressure and velocitiy than the .223 which has a SAMMI max pressure of 55K PSI.

.223 ammuntion with it's lower pressure/velocity can be safely fired all day long in a 5.56 chamber. 5.56 ammunition like Federal XM193 should not be fired in .223 chambers. 5.56 ammunition may safely be fired in 5.56 or .223 Wylde chambers only.

An easy way to describe the difference is to compare the chamber differences to a speed bump. It takes more energy to overcome the resistance of a speed bump if you stop at it's base before driving over it than it does if your vehicle is already in motion. The 5.56 chamber with it's shallower leade and longer freebore allows the bullet time to gain momentum and velocity before encountering the rifling. This is why 5.56 ammunition can be safely loaded to a higher pressure and velocity(ie.more powder).

Here is an excellent discussion on the specific differences between 5.56 and .223 chambers.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55149



Did you read that in book or I see now INTERNET!
lol.gif
lol.gif
rolleyes.gif


Everytime I visit this forum I feel like Galileo Galilei trying to explain heliocentrism to Cardinal Bellermine and Pope Paul V
lol.gif





You are a FOOL if you think can't shoot 5.56 in a 223 rifle. I have shot 1000 of 5.56 in my 223 and guess what no probs at all.

Tell you what why don't you post these coments in the reloading fourm SMART GUY or HERE READ THIS.



223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference - PredatorMasters Forums
i have always believed that 223 and 5.56 are the same thing. there are other forums and people that i know that will darn near come to blows ...
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223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference - PredatorMasters Forums
#2293738 - 09/20/12 02:14 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: 6724]. highbrow Offline Predator Master Registered: 11/27/09. Posts: 73. Loc: SW ...
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.223 VS 5.56 Brass Question - PredatorMasters Forums
#1306722 - 06/09/09 07:03 AM .223 VS 5.56 Brass Question. AZBrewer Offline Seasoned Member Registered: 01/27/09. Posts: 119. Loc: Peoria, AZ. OK for the ...
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#2294887 - 09/22/12 01:29 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: Darkker]. Ridgeline17 Offline Seasoned Member Registered: 04/11/12. Posts: 430 ...
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#2293396 - 09/19/12 09:31 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: Evil_Lurker]. CatShooter Offline PM senior. Registered: 01/24/02 ...
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223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference - PredatorMasters Forums
This happens all the time in PDog fields of one isn't careful. So all this 5.56 vs 223 stuff is silly, to me. I one once naive about it, but then I tried it.
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Originally Posted By: pahntr760Typical 5.56 chambers in military weapons have longer throngs to accommodate the long-for-weight steel core bullets. A 62 gr steel core is considerably longer then a lead core bullet in the same weight. There is no definitive chamber with either designator. We have Wylde chambers, proprietary tweaks on leads, and some chambers are cut for specific bullets. This makes a big differance, at time. But it's not just limited to 5.56 vs 223 rem.


The cartridges operate at the same pressures, they are measure at differently. One is SAMMI and the other is NATO specs.

There are tons of different little tweaks and minute changes that smiths and manufactures make to chambers to make it seem like the next big thing. In the end, it's all the same.

Most problems arise when joe blow bet his AR that has a short chamber. He loads up some mil-Surp stuff, jamming the lands, and has issues. Now, the sky begins to fall and every 223 rem stamped chamber is deemed unsafe for 5.56 ammo.

Look at this chart. It has a few reamers listed. There is even 5.56 with the same free-bore as standard 223 dimensions. And there is a 223 reamer with much more free-bore than the 5.56 reamers.

http://ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf

064ef8e2ff443b6cd387d5eab8db5da6.jpg
 
M&A parts very fast shipping and good product. I just got a complete kit 20" varmit to my door was 610. and 3 days in shipping. It turned out to be very accurate with handloaded 55 grain v max.
 
I am going to break from the others and say rock river is the best deal for an upper, I have 2 flat top uppers on order with HBAR barrels regular barrels and handguards complete with carrier groups and charging handles for about $435 shipped. there is a couple places out there that can get them for around this price. yeah there are uppers for less money and yeah I will likely have to wait 2 mos to get these but so what. its rock river and they have a 1 moa guarantee on these.
 
Quote:You are a FOOL if you think can't shoot 5.56 in a 223 rifle. I have shot 1000 of 5.56 in my 223 and guess what no probs at all.

Tell you what why don't you post these coments in the reloading fourm SMART GUY or HERE READ THIS.


It is pretty clear you did not read my original post since I see you are stuck on the concept that the case dimensions are the same for both cartridges. What is unfortunate is you don't know enough to realize how little you do know and it appears you are unable to grasp new concepts and ideas.

All of your links are for posts made on this forum. While Predator Masters is one of the foremost sources for predator and varmint hunting information it is certainly not the definitive source for AR rifles, reloading and ammunition.

What .223 chambered rifle have you fired 1000 rounds of 5.56 ammunition in? What specific type of ammunition did you fire? I have never stated you cannot fire 5.56 ammunition in a .223 chamber. What I stated was doing so will result in increased chamber pressures in excess of SAAMI specifications. Depending upon what specific 5.56 ammunition you are using those pressures may approach proof load levels for your .223 rifle.

The maximum pressure standard for the .223 cartridge according to SAAMI is 55K PSI. 5.56 ammunition does not conform to the SAAMI standard. 5.56 max equivalent pressure is 62K PSI.
To continue to state that the two standards are identical is asinine. It is no different than saying 9mm ammunition is exactly the same as 9mm+P, and 9mm+P+.

Most manufacturers recognize the difference and in fact state in no uncertain terms that it will void your warranty.
For example Savage Arms states the following:

'USE ONLY THE CORRECT AMMUNITION THAT IS STAMPED ON THE SIDE OF THE BARREL. THE USE OF RELOADS,HANDLOADS, MILITARY SURPLUS, OR ANY OTHER COMMERCIAL/NONCOMMERCIAL AMMUNITION NOT MANUFACTURED TO SAAMI (SPORTING ARMS AND MANUFACTURERS’ INSTITUTE) SPECIFICATIONS WILL VOID THE WARRANTY.'

It's real simple, 5.56 ammunition is not manufactured to SAAMI .223 specs.


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You better call the ammo co. and tell them how much more you know than them.
lol.gif
A lot of the mark the boxes 223,5.56. I guess some people are just to THICK.

I got an idea why don't you take your knowledge and go SOMEWHERE ELSE!
grin.gif


Probly in a week you will be telling us how to hunt predators what we are doing is all wrong

 
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Originally Posted By: roode301You better call the ammo co. and tell them how much more you know than them.
lol.gif
A lot of the mark the boxes 223,5.56. I guess some people are just to THICK.

I got an idea why don't you take your knowledge and go SOMEWHERE ELSE!
grin.gif


Probly in a week you will be telling us how to hunt predators what we are doing is all wrong.That's the type of preson you are a PRICK.

I"M DONE WITH YOU DB.


There really is no need to resort to name calling. What ammo company? If you go to Midway's website you will note that they place .223 and 5.56 ammunition into different categories. I see you conveniently side stepped my question. What .223 chambered rifle did you fire 1000 + rounds of 5.56 ammo through and what specific type of 5.56 ammunition did you use?
 
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Hopefully the OP got his answer before the .223/5.56 debate began.
I will lock this as this has no bearing on the original question.
 
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