Loaded gun in tripod, coyote or hog in shooting distance, safety goes off and I stay in the scope. When I come out of the scope safety goes on. Just cut a regular hunting partner loose, due to being unsafe. Swinging his gun and shooting it way past his zone, a couple of times, the last straw was clambering a round in his AR in the back seat of the truck while going down the road and myself and someone else in the front seat, I told him don't do that in the truck and he said ah it will be ok. I told him after the hunt that night, we were gonna cut back to 2 people not 3. He said whatever and left. Hunting is my fun and someone getting shot due to stupidity would ruin that fun forever.
When is it Safe to Release Your Safety?
- Thread starter hm1996
- Start date
I'm a vet and also trained police when I left the Army so the safety only comes off when I'm on target and ready to shoot. And when it comes to mentoring a child safety is the upmost importance, hunting would be a secondary concern. So the target must be identified, we know our backstop and beyond. When we know it's a safe direction to point the firearms, know the backstop on beyond, and are on target and are ready to shoot then the safety comes off. The mentoring officer might have handled the situation more diplomatically. But he might not have prepped himself on how to react in that scenario.
hunt0168
Well-known member
I’m curious to know more about this ^^^? What would you have done differently?
I paraphrased in my post what he said. I wasn’t present, but he told me pretty much what I wrote. I’m pretty sure he would have explained why to the kid. I’m sure as a trained police officer he handled the situation just fine. I mean the other mentor finished the successful hunt, and didn’t look beat up in any way! Lol..
Secondly, and this is just my opinion, diplomacy kind of goes out the window for me, when stupidity is the driving factor. It’s just how I’m wired. I probably wouldn’t have handled dealing with the mentor very diplomatically!
Here's what was posted: "My friend said he almost lost his mind! He told the kid, (and the other mentor) absolutely not, the Safety stays on until you’re ready to shoot."
It's the "he almost lost his mind" part. Now I wasn't there but in training situations I've been placed where the emotions can run high (including being covered by loaded weapons) and it's best to keep your emotions in check. This creates a more favorable training situation. If your friend chastised the other mentor, or spoke in a manner that's off putting then the kid and the mentor are going to be stressed and won't learn as effectively. The mentor will probably not accept your buddy's remarks and continue to mentor the same way in the future. If there I would explain that's not when I would disengage the safety. Though it's not in the new hunter firearms safety rules to engage/ disengage the safety he could explain why professionals keep the safety on. We don't trust the "safety" but it is an extra measure of safety that we should all use.
I'm sure your friend meant well, he was only looking out for the kid and other hunters. But when kids are involved even police or other first responders can respond differently. He could of said as a police officer they are trained to handled firearms to a higher degree of safety and professionalism. And since the kid was learning he could learn these techniques and be at a higher level of safety and proficiency with little extra effort.
GC
Well-known member
Not every LEO or military veteran is trained to a "higher degree of safety and professionalism." In my experience, there are plenty of cops and military folks who are the biggest dumb azzes on the range. They project the idea that because they were law enforcement/military they are better than the average "civilian" on the range. My experience is that just isn't true. Dumb azzes are dumb wherever they are. That's who they are and what they do. Many LEOs only shoot when they undergo their yearly or bi-yearly firearms qualification and never go shooting on their own. Same for the military folks, if they aren't active combat arms their firearms training is very limited. Especially so with a handgun. Most avid hunters and/or firearms enthusiasts have more experience and are safer to be around with a gun.
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Well being both a vet and a civilian I'll agree to disagree. I competed for two decades and was a state champion in PPC and western regional division IDPA champion first time I shot IDPA. There are some police that aren't great firearms handlers, but I've seen civilians do just as poorly, if not more so.
davidheart
Member
The problem with threads and conversations related to safety, laws, training, etc is that it doesn't respect the nuances involved in all individuals and situations. An online threads like this almost always devolves into an argument.
That's why I marked my answer as "other."
I technically don't trust the safety because, working in a rifleshop, I've seen faulty safeties.
That being said, there are some people who would trust a safety with their life and badmouthing those who wouldn't. Other people understand that a safety is just another measure of protection and are good to have. Some people are absolutely terrified of firearms. Some people are far too relaxed and chamber a round in a vehicle with new hunting buddies.
Whatever the case never point a firearm at something you aren't prepared to destroy and keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.
And remember most firearm accidents come from *negligent discharge.* In other words they safety failed or the trigger got caught on something it shouldn't have.
That's why I marked my answer as "other."
I technically don't trust the safety because, working in a rifleshop, I've seen faulty safeties.
That being said, there are some people who would trust a safety with their life and badmouthing those who wouldn't. Other people understand that a safety is just another measure of protection and are good to have. Some people are absolutely terrified of firearms. Some people are far too relaxed and chamber a round in a vehicle with new hunting buddies.
Whatever the case never point a firearm at something you aren't prepared to destroy and keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.
And remember most firearm accidents come from *negligent discharge.* In other words they safety failed or the trigger got caught on something it shouldn't have.
True dat, every word! Just an observation, for what its worth:
Just because someone is/was a vet or LEO or shot competition doesn't mean they learned/follow firearms safety/proficiency. Some do and some don't, as in any cross section of the public.
I was not a LEO but am a vet, received what I consider to be the average marksmanship training ("combat arms"), shot on an army AMU and 25 years of HP rifle competition w/High Master classification, and conducted many firearms safety courses both in the service and as civilian NRA certified instructor. All this and a buck fifty gets me a cup of coffee just about anywhere, except Starbucks.
A humorous story comes to mind re LEO's. My son was conducting an audit of the county sheriff a number of years ago and somehow the conversation with the deputy turned to firearms. The deputy gave my son a quick tour of the office and showed him a number of old bullet holes accumulated in desks, floor, etc.
I venture to say that I observed (learned) far more firearms safety as it was enforced/observed on competitive firing ranges (both military and civilian) than anywhere else. Having said that, c'mon out in my garage and I'll show you a 300 WM hole in a brick wall.........testimony to the fact that no matter how much firearms training, knowledge or experience we have, it only takes one lapse of memory to result in a potential tragedy.
I don't trust safeties, but they do provide one more layer of prevention we can engage, while observing the all important muzzle conrol in handling firearms.
Yup I agree that it only takes one lapse to have a tragic result. Even some of the best trained individuals can have a NG. It tragically happened to SAPD's rangemaster in 1998. All my certs still hasn't gotten me a cup of coffee. I did however secure a dozen donuts La Puente PD's firearms instructor left unsecured on his cruiser hood. He was none too pleased lol.True dat, every word! Just an observation, for what its worth:
Just because someone is/was a vet or LEO or shot competition doesn't mean they learned/follow firearms safety/proficiency. Some do and some don't, as in any cross section of the public.
I was not a LEO but am a vet, received what I consider to be the average marksmanship training ("combat arms"), shot on an army AMU and 25 years of HP rifle competition w/High Master classification, and conducted many firearms safety courses both in the service and as civilian NRA certified instructor. All this and a buck fifty gets me a cup of coffee just about anywhere, except Starbucks.
A humorous story comes to mind re LEO's. My son was conducting an audit of the county sheriff a number of years ago and somehow the conversation with the deputy turned to firearms. The deputy gave my son a quick tour of the office and showed him a number of old bullet holes accumulated in desks, floor, etc.
I venture to say that I observed (learned) far more firearms safety as it was enforced/observed on competitive firing ranges (both military and civilian) than anywhere else. Having said that, c'mon out in my garage and I'll show you a 300 WM hole in a brick wall.........testimony to the fact that no matter how much firearms training, knowledge or experience we have, it only takes one lapse of memory to result in a potential tragedy.
I don't trust safeties, but they do provide one more layer of prevention we can observe, while observing the all important muzzle conrol in handling firearms.
hunt0168
Well-known member
I get what you’re saying xsn10s. I can assure you that was just a figure of speech between friends. He is a standup guy I’ve known since we were kids, and I’m certain he handled it better than I would have. The kid had a successful hunt, I’m pretty sure there were no hard feelings when it was said and done.
I can accept "other". I can't remember if it was Jeff Cooper the said safeties are just mechanical devices that can and will fail. So I don't rely on them either. And muzzle discipline along with keeping your trigger finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire are sound practices. But to purposely disengage a safety before you're ready to fire I cannot agree with. Sure it may or may not be functioning properly but a proper functioning safety is an extra layer of safety. Not the end all be all, but an extra layer.
It's good the kid was successful. In the end as long as everyone is safe then all is good. Good thread to kick around different ideas.
hunt0168
Well-known member
Yeah, this one blew up pretty good in the last couple hours! Lol… I’m at work so keeping things short and sweet. I agree with just about all that has been said. There isn’t any judgement, or any kind of argument on my end on how any of you deal with the safety and when. I have my thoughts, and they’re right for me. That being that I just don’t see how having one more layer of safety hurts a thing. Ultimately it’s the guy behind the trigger that is the most important one. I am very particular about who I hunt with, and the safety of everyone is what drives that.
As far as people, attitudes and egos go, well that’s just too much to try and cover right now! Lol…
As far as people, attitudes and egos go, well that’s just too much to try and cover right now! Lol…
Cal Taylor
Sponsor
I believe a rifle should not have a chambered round until you are sitting where you plan to call. I have tripped, slipped, or fallen and seen others do it too many times walking in to a stand to do it any other way. I sit down, chamber a round, and the safety goes on. The safety only comes off after I have a visual on the critter I plan on shooting. On top of coyote hunting for a living, I have guided big game hunts professionally for 30 years or so and have seen a lot of dumbass moves in my career. This is how I see it and no one that hunts with me is going to do it any different, or they aren't hunting with me.
GC
Well-known member
Kinda my point, thanks.