Which AR is a better gas piston system: POF-USA or LWRC ?

K

Karl in Phoenix

New member
I have several AR rifles and carbines, including a very nice DTech (.223). I use a 16" with a suppressor for work but find the "blow-back" that gets passed the "gas buster" charging handle to be distracting and I do not like all of the additional carbonacious nasty on the operating system that the gas impingement system causes.

I will be buying yet another 16" .223 and will be getting a gas-piston driven carbine this time.

Does anyone have direct experience with LWRC and/or Patriot Ordinance Factory (POF-USA) ARs?

Which is "smoother" running? Which is most robust? Which is more reliable? Which is more accurate?

Both of these rifles are expensive. I will be getting the lower registered as an SBR and eventually run 14.5" 5.56mm upper AND a 10.5" 6.8mm, both with dedicated SureFire suppressors.

Thanks for your input.

Karl in Phoenix
 
The only experience I have is with LWRC and is limited to unloading a couple mags FA out of an SBR at SHOT show a few years back. Very sweet operation.

The guys at HDI do a piston conversion. You might try giving them a call. Excelelnt peopel to deal with.
http://www.hendersondefense.biz/
 
Crapshoot,
Many thanks for your posting. I am thinking about a gas-piston conversion for my 16" working carbine (this one has a GemTech "Halo" can on it). I will give HDI a call next week and inquire about the conversion.

Have a great weekend,

Karl in Phoenix
 
Karl,

We have both systems at our shop at I had the same question. So I called both companies at got their "spin" on the situation.

POF says (and when taking them apart its apparent) that LWRC copied the first version of their 223/5.56 gas piston system. They made a couple minor changes but in the end it (to my eyes) looks identical.

POF has since modified their system and made it more durable. By this I mean instead of "screwing into the top of the bolt carrier" it is machined as part of it. Adamms Arms and other conversion systems I have seen currently are screwed onto the bolt carrier. The company that I know of currently copying the new system is CMMG. POF and CMMG are the only two currently that I have seen that machine the carrier specifically for the gas piston operation. We had one of those in the shop and the bolt and gas system looks identical to POF's.

LWRC says they took existing technology and made it better. However to my eyes and the others in the shop, they copied the first system and didn't make the same changes that POF did to make it better.

I would buy a POF if I wanted all the extra's. If I wanted a base gas piston I would hit up CMMG and rock one of their systems then set it up the way I wanted.

LWRC does a nice job putting all the extra's on your weapon system for you (magpull grip, quad rail with covers, flip up sights, vltor stock, mag pull trigger guard, anodizing or what they do and so on) however you can do all that stuff yourself and pick up a better system (in my opinion) with the CMMG for around $1600.

LWRC's average around $2300 - $2500. Also both LWRC's we had in our shop had the infamous AR "wobble". For $2500 it better come with the shim or I would expect they take the time to make sure that the upper and lower are matched and fit tightly.

Another one you might want to look at is the Robinson Armament.

For around $1700 you get a side folding and six posistion single, point break down, no buffer tube, left side charging handle, gas piston, full railed beast.

After looking at all these options daily it is the system that I decided to buy. The major selling factor for me what that in under 5 minutes I can swap the bolt and barrel system and shoot 223/7.62x39/6.8/6.5. That is in theory at least, I'm still waiting for them to catch up and ship my 7.62x39 barrel and bolt kit. It takes AR mags, AR grips and thats about it. I have dumped 2k rounds through mine and adjusted the gas at around 500 rounds. I shoot crappy wolf and whatever else I want through this thing and she hasnt hiccuped yet. Yes I know steel is harder on the extractors but I was able to get another one of those from Robinson and so far have not had a need for it.

I will be picking up a POF in .308 as they are the nicest in that caliber for AR platforms that I have seen. I say in that platform because currently I'm in love with M1A/M14's and starting a love affair with DSA Fal's. One day.... One day I will own them all.. Currently my LRB JAE stocked M1a and the Vltor Stocked Socom II are consuming all my time and money. It's both a blessing and a curse have Smith Enterprises local as I have taken them both down there recently and given him all my money to make them even more special.

If I DIDNT own a Robinson Armament gas piston in .223 already, I would probably pick up a CMMG gas piston set up and then config it the way I liked.

Hope that helps you even a tiny bit.
 
Last edited:
Andrew Kerns,
Many thanks for your comprehensive evaluation and recommendations. I will look into one of those Robinson Armament rifles and the CMMG systems.

Before I drop another $1,500-$2,500 on an AR platform, I want to get as much information from people who have direct experience on them. Anyone (including me) can read magazine articles and essays and develop ideas but that is not hands-on.

I agree with you about the POF 7.62mm ARs. A couple of weeks ago, two POF employees used my range to do some testing on one of their 14.5" 7.62mm ARs. It was about 3pm and 102 degrees F and wind was switching 5-15mph, half-value from both sides and mirage was crazy and the rifle (and shooter) were cutting bullet holes at 100 meters. Impressive. They told me that the 14.5" rifle will hold less than MOA to 1,000 yards (the longest range tested so far with the short barrel).

Thank you again, Andrew for your well thought-out response to my query.

Have a great weekend,

Karl in Phoenix
 
Man Karl your just costing me more money...

Hearing that type of stuff just echoes everything I hear about the 308 system they make.

If you get any other experience with those I would love to hear it as I have been a fan for sometime. I almost pulled the trigger on a 6.8 POF at the last PHX gun show but went with the LRB JAE instead. I really only deterred because I want to keep with the 308's and not have to stock another ammo.

I spent a good amount of time at the NRA show fondling, drooling and otherwise man handling the 308 version at POF's booth though.

It is an obsession I tell ya.
 
+1 for the XCR. I have only had mine for a few months but like Andrew said the thing will eat any ammo. It is a more durable weapon than the piston ARs in my opinion and would choose it over both the POF or LWRC personally. Built like a tank and is a very simple robust system. It is about as maintenance free as they come. Barrel changes are a breeze. One hex bolt and the barrel is off. All the good of an AR with the shortcomings fixed. Galil like in durability and AR like in ergos.

In regards to the POF or LWRC I haven't shot either one so have little to offer. Both have good reps and a solid following. I like the NP3 plating that POF uses. This alone would make me lean towards it if buying between the two.
 
Karl, I have the CMMG gas piston system. I'm in Goodyear, so if you want to try to work out a time, I'm willing to let you try it to see what you think. Let me know.

-Tom
 
Motojunkie,
I would like to see your CMMG. I will be avialable in the first week of June, most any time.

I checked Brownell's and they have the CMMG and I can order it to retro-fit to my current gas impingement system 16" carbine.

Thanks for your offer,

Karl in Phoenix
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top