Why a military zone along the border?

AWS

AWS

Custom Accessory Maker & Retired PM Staff
I live along the border and I defended the military zone along the border. I didn't know the reason other than to stop drugs and illegals immigration. It is that but the military zone imore than that.

Due to the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 the US Military can not be used to enforce domestic policies. The military could not only assist logistically the local sheriff, police and Border Patrol. They cannot arrest or detain people for entering the country or smuggling drugs. By making the strip along the border a closed military zone or military base, now the military can patrol the border independently and arrest people for trespassing on a military base and the turn them over to the proper authorities.
 
It sounds good, and maybe it will be. But, the skeptic in me says: So now the military will arrest everyone and turn them over to the same agencies that took no action before the military was there? Seems like adding another bureaucracy to an already ineffective process. Could have spent the same money to give the Border Patrol more folks and gear and then actually do something with those apprehended.
 
Most people don't realize the loopholes the federal government uses to arrest/detain people. Take federal inmates for example, if you took away the interstate commerce clause, our federal prisons would be almost empty.
 
Of cource, the agencies that didn't do anything were under orders by the last admin to not do anyuthing.

They're now under orders to enforce the law. I think we'll see a very different outcome for anyone they ctahc now
 
Stu Farish said:
Of cource, the agencies that didn't do anything were under orders by the last admin to not do anyuthing.

They're now under orders to enforce the law. I think we'll see a very different outcome for anyone they ctahc now
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Hopefully. But why not just unshackle the Border Patrol? At least they only harass US citizens, not cuff and stuff them. IMO, while potentially effective now, this militarization is bad in the long run.
 
Funny how so many people on here were just bashing the vary federal
DesertRam said:
Hopefully. But why not just unshackle the Border Patrol? At least they only harass US citizens, not cuff and stuff them. IMO, while potentially effective now, this militarization is bad in the long run.
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The BP is like every other federal LEO agency critically short staffed.
 
Yep, exactly why I initially stated that we should spend money on them instead of mobilizing the military. Metaphorically speaking, I just think we're trying to fill the gap with the wrong caulk.
 
There is a strip of Fed land all along the border. Past that is STATE land, where B.P. has NO authority (well, actually some authority as allowed by state). Military property is enforced by Mil and makes a larger buffer zone. I don't understand why anyone has a gripe about it!
 
popper43 said:
I don't understand why anyone has a gripe about it!
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Because it's not just a buffer zone. They have taken that land out of the public domain. Land that you could walk on, hunt on, etc. a few months ago you now cannot. You will be arrested. That's my gripe. I support effective border control and the elimination of illegal immigration, but it should not cost NM and US citizens their land, their recreational opportunities, their livelihood, etc. Build the wall, equip it with electronic surveillance, appropriately staff the Border Patrol, deport illegal immigrants immediately upon entry, find them wherever they are, and so on. These are methods I support. But to take my and your land is going too far. There are better tools, better techniques, better ways. This time it's 110,00 acres in NM. Next it'll be 200,000 acres, then it'll be more states. That's how these things often go. It starts out "small" but then expands. It's the nature of the FedGov beast. I can't tell you how many conversations on this very board have railed on and on about the inefficiencies, the bloat, the overreach of the FedGov. This is the start of one of those very issues and many are applauding. That's what I don't understand.
 
A few more thoughts.

Why hire more BP and equip them when you already have a fully equipped AND paid force trained to stop an invasion sitting around the country practicing. Practical experience seems more cost effective. They were able to be deployed immediately by manipulating land usage instead of training a force of men and procuring equipment. Great testing ground for desert warfare

Closed military lands don't always mean closed totally. Hunting is available on a lot of military bases. With permits we held bird dog trials on Ft Lewis and you could get permits to hunt there. White Sands has a hunting program. Once the border issue is more settled to the point.where vigilance can be relaxed or the BP can again handle the border things might change. This is already a temporary situation. Changes in the future are always possible.
 
Because the army and NG aren't law enforcement. If you want to characterize this as an invasion (that's another topic), then yes, mobilize the military and start shooting to repel the invaders. Bring out the military to kill people and wreck stuff, that's what they do. That's not what is going on though. The military is just performing the law enforcement function that a properly equipped and authorized LE agency should do. I read in the paper this morning that the Pentagon plans on spending $2.4B more for the military to do this work. How much better would our Border Patrol work if that funding was spent there? They're not training for desert warfare, and we don't need more land for that anyway. Just pop on over to Fort Bliss or White Sands Missile Range where hundreds of thousands of acres are already set aside for that training.

I see where you're coming from re: hunting on military land. In some cases it works out okay, but in many it does not. For now, we are not allowed down there. That may change and we may be able to access it with additional hoops to jump through; time will tell. Changes are possible, but we rarely go back once something is set. Look how many ridiculous laws are still on the books. After three years of this land being a military base, I highly doubt it will revert to BLM management. I hope to be surprised.
 
The way it works at Ft Rucker is anyone can get access to hunt & there are no restrictions. Open same as staewide. You do have to take whatever gun(s) you want to hunt with on base & register them & then have that form on your person when hunting, but there's no charge to do so. And it's a one-time registration per gun
 
Echoing @Stu Farish statement

That is pretty much true on almost all installations. Although some are way more strict than others, some to the point of No.
Usually the Base /Post / Installation Commander has a huge if not final say in the matter, their mission dictates that. Of course there are certain agreements between state and the installations (usually it's a agreement allowing the local (state) game wardens access and enforcement abilities that they don't have unless granted within a "MOU" aka memorandum of understanding). Outside the security forces native to the Commander or Branch's native investigative agency (think NCIS, CID, etc) the jurisdiction usually falls to the FBI, which really could care less about a person harvesting game. Some installations do have a organic Game warden ( I think Ft Stewart and Ft Rucker does, not sure) type setup already, some don't. So YMMV.

But let's be brutally honest if that land is listed as a military zone/base/land/ assembly area, posse comitatus is out the window, and that branch does have the authority to arrest, detain, and put you on trial under the UCMJ. Which trust me if they put you on trial under UCMJ there is 99.99999% chance your going to jail under the UCMJ, entry grants the UCMJ to be applied to civilians, actually anyone. Or they can simply hand you over to say to ICE or other various Federal Law Enforcement agency.

I know how I would implement such a plan to zone off the borders, and honestly I think that most would agree with my method / idea. It would be a joint venture with a majority if not all of the federal agencies, that does include BLM, NPS, etc as well as the LEOs/Military zoning (Military does include the USCG in this idea). And wouldn't be cheap but probably way more effective than now. Would it require more manpower, maybe, but if applied correctly that increase would be minimal (Military strength wise I wouldn't want it to be 1 more service member simply shift manpower and bases).
Yet allow hunting the Yotes, varmints and other game. Bear in mind I like the idea of hunting on BLM/ Federal land as much as the next guy.

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The model in my mind would be the Korean DMZ approx 2.5 miles width x the length of the borders for the Military assets with a logical thought process of stewardship between Army, Navy (yes the Marines fall here), Air Force, and USCG, coupled with BP/ICE stations between the branches zones with detention center being within that 2.5 mile zone.
Article 134 and or 192 of the UCMJ already deals with unlawful entry onto a base facility and directly coincides with 10 U.S. Code § 892. (this part doesn't require more immigration judges just a few JAG officers that are trying a unlawful entry not immigration law).
So depending on the whims and flow of legal court dockets, a illegal alien could be tried under UCMJ versus the civilian court process with a verdict of deportation back to the point of entry. All Civilian Immigration courts will move inside that 2.5 mile zone. Simple idea piss off the Judges and now move to the desert, and their safety is the same BP agents, no US Marshall for bailiffs only BP or military police forces, but the US Marshals could be used if need be. That simple Idea or concept would stave off a lot of land mass back to the NPS / BLM.

But it's just a pipe dream and thinking out loud, image trying to push that thru Congress and the Executive branch. It might be easier to repeal the parts of existing laws that prevent the implantation of that process via budget reconciliation.

Just waiting to be called crazy or anti- American Facist LMAO
 
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I grew up archery hunting our local MCLB. They didn’t have GW per se, but did have biologist come in and evaluate the land and make recommendations for certain types of game. They had a Colonel in charge that was an avid quail hunter and wanted more quail. One of the recommendations was the removal of feral cats running rampant. I was 16 and riding around at night with the MP’s using NV and the new M16’s ridding the Base of the problem, lol. Around buildings and residential areas we used shotguns.
They had a robust deer population and made a rule of shooting 2 does before being able to shoot a buck. A LOT of P&Y bucks came off that place. After my stint in the military I joined the Reserves just to get an ID card to continue hunting the place, lol.
 
So the Fed mile or so wide area is promo hunting area? I think NOT. Always has been a border 'right-of-way' zone, now it's just wider.
 
the military has to train somewhere. have them train with thermal and motion sensors. any cross border movement can be relayed to border patrol, they can make the arrests. military doesnt have to arrest anyone.

let them train all along the border, the coast, the canadian border. use military high tech secret surveillance gear on gangs and thugs. just report what they have and send the tapes into the responsible agency for evidence. no military / people conflicts at all.

but when a thug gun comes out...drone them into ash.
 
this is the 1st time I can remember in MOST of my lifetime we're not reading in the NEWS about illegals crossing the fricking border... LONG past due and I don't care how they do it, just get re done!
 
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