Why do we sound like dying rabbits, birds, etc?

L

LDhunter

New member
Here's my question.

Do we make noises like rabbits and other small critters being killed in a most horrible fashion to notify the predator of an easy meal or to notify the predator that some OTHER predator is hunting in THEIR territory? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I've seen them "hang up" downwind when I seriously doubt that they've ever been called in by a human predator hunter. (Almost NOBODY hunts predators in Florida but a very few select hunters)

They seem really apprehensive and I think I've figured out why... :eek:

They're wondering "who or what the heck is killing their rabbits" and whether or not they'll get their butt whipped by said "intruder" in their territory when they arrive to evict the invader. :eek:

Whaddaythink??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

$bob$
 
girlie dogs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The ones hanging up are probably the interlopers. If they owned that territory they would have to at least try and defend it.

This ain't England. If someone breaks into your house here, you don't act submissive and hope he doesn't try to hurt you or your family. You kick his ass or go down fighting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Sorry that UK thread is still on my mind.
 
Originally posted by tonlocus:
[qb]girlie dogs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Sorry that UK thread is still on my mind.[/qb]
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LOL... Good one... I certainly enjoyed your post and your point is certainly pertinent and makes a lot of sense.

$bob$
 
We make distressed bird/animal sounds because these are the sounds a predator is familiar with and associates them with food. Don't put so much emphasis on what you feel the coyote is "thinking". They don't contemplate, plot, rationalize, or calculate a situation like people would. They hear the sound, and if they are hungry, they come to get it.

If they aren't hungry they may come anyway, cautiously, out of curiosity. If they are transcients, in someone elses marked and established territory, and are hungry, they will be ultra-cautious for fear of getting their butt kicked. If it is their territory, and they are young and dumb, they just might charge right in, throwing caution to the wind. The parents of that YoY, on the other hand, might be more careful in it's approach. They would do a lot more looking around, testing the wind, maybe even some challenge vocalizations. That's how they got to be old dogs.

The bottom line is, animal distress sounds are nothing more than a stimulus. On the other hand, coyote vocalizations are actual attempts at communication that are meant to send a message. They are intended to antagonize, infuriate, challenge, seduce, or even simulate an incapacitated and helpless pup.

It is infinitely more important to know why you are making a "particular" sound (and when to use it), than it is to simply make "a" sound by flipping on the e:caller.
 
When it comes to coyote rules the first one is: there ain't no rules. There are techniques that work some time on some coyotes somewhere. Nothing works all the time, everywhere. There are as many techniques and theories as there are hunters. Now don't misunderstand me, there are definitely things that most hunters use often because they produce often.

Now here is my theory for your situation. Even though we live on opposite sides of the country, we have some similarities, low calling pressure being one. You said they hang up downwind. I don't know how far downwind they are hanging, but if they are stopped downwind within 450 yds., perhaps a long range flat shooter is the way to go.

I agree with NASA :eek: I don't think that coyotes "think" I agree that they react to stimuli. When I call I try to put this theory to work for me.

If I say "Black", you would sit there.
If I say "black dog" you would look,
If I say " big , black, mean,ugly, dog" You would stand up and look.
If I say " oh Crap! here he comes." You would move out, scream, beg, cry, whine like a little girl, shoot until your gun was empty or whatever.

So when I call, I don't start by saying "Black", I start by screaming "Big Black Dog In your Yard"

I want the coyote to MOVE I prefer him to move my way, and to stimulate him to do that, I scream "Big Black Dog Eating Your Rabbit....Slowly and painfully"

I stop long enough to glass the area to assess my calling skills /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif If I see a coyote{s} coming and they hang up, I try to limit the stimuli that he is dealing with to the noise I am making or decoy movement[if you use them]

I try not to give his brain time to filter the info/stimuli he has bombarding him at the time, Wind/ truck/lump on the prairie/etc.

This is just my theory. Someone else calls less, softer, and not at all when the coyote is spotted. It works for them.
This works for me more times than not.

And if I can't motivate them to come in, I try to kill them where they stand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
RedFrog,

That makes a lot of sense. I have slightly unusual situation in that my woods are very lightly hunted for predators but very heavily hunted for deer with hounds.

Hunters act VERY agressively when they see a coyote and usually empty their shotguns or rifles at them and try to chase them with their pickup trucks. They rarely hit them but scare the bejeebers out of them and convince them that people are VERY dangerous.

It's the deep piney woods of North Florida and underbrush is usually so thick that we can only rarely see more than 40 yards or so and we don't have the option of using "recorded game calls".

I had a theory that the coyotes were always circling downwind and "hanging up" until they did a "full investigation" of all scents present in the area of the call before they approached because they can't see through the thick brush much better than we can.

Soooo.... During the "off season" when there weren't deer, turkey, or small game hunters in the woods I borrowed a FoxPro from a friend and hit the woods with my video camera. THAT's not illegal!

Sure enough I actually witnessed my theory in action and the yotes would INEVITABLY circle downwind and sneak up through the heavy brush to the caller. I figured that my theory was right. I needed to remove my scent completely from the equation to improve my kill ratios.

My plans are still forming and that's why I asked this question. I'm trying to get into the mind of the southeastern piney woods coyote.

Anyone that doesn't think that our coyotes are smart and that they don't posess the power of reasoning that is almost as sharp as people, hasn't hunted them much yet.

They never fail to astound me with their trickery.

More on my strategies later but for the mean time I'm thinking that tree stands may be an easy way out if you don't mind carrying a 25lb metal contraption around on your back and having to climb 10-15 trees a day. :rolleyes:

I've also (FINALLY!!!) met a fairly successful 'yote hunter that's willing to show me some of his tricks that he's figured out on how to trick them into showing themselves as they circle downwind even when he uses a mouth call...

Like I said... More later but this is really fun!!! Frustrating at times but more fun than I've ever had hunting anything else.

$bob$
 
Sacre bleu! :eek: Grenouille rouge be careful, someone may hear you!
Zer are spies everywhere, est cela pas si? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I just re-read NASA's, RedFrog's, and my post and it looks like I'm calling them dumb when I say 'yotes are smart right after they said they aren't. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm not meaning to argue... They just seem incredibly smart to me and extremely well adapted to our area.

Anytime I kill a 'yote I show it to as many people and hunters that I can because almost noone around here even believes they exist because they're so secretive that they're RARELY seen.

$bob$
 
IDhunter, they don't "posess the power of reasoning". They possess the power of behavioral adaptation and threat-conditioned responses. There is a lot of past discussion on this subject on this web site that can be pulled up on a topic search. But your approach to dealing with your terrain is on the right track.

(edit) I never said coyotes were "dumb". They are one of the cleverest and most adaptive animals on Earth. The only dumb coyote is the one laying at your feet. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
OK, so let's see if I can stir the pot a little. A comment was made about coyote, or predators in general being able to reason out a given situation. My answer to this is yes. However, they do not "reason" the way a human reasons. Yes, instincts and behavioral adaptation or conditioning is an important roll in a predators lifestyle, but how do they come to the conclusion that a given action is required for a given situation? Is it truely fear that causes a predator to react to human scent, or is it that he has found through trial and error that discretion is the better part of valor? For us to believe that a predator simply reacts to a given situation because it has been condition to or it's ancestors adapted thier behavior to do this, says that we believe we are the only intelligent lifeform out there. How many whitetail hunters have seen a buck get down and crawl through an open area while hunters where looking right at the area and never saw the deer, is that simply the power of bahavioral adaptation? And the mule deer hunters, that have seen large bucks push smaller bucks and does out through open areas, only to sneak out in another direction while the hunter is watching the other deer, is that a threat conditioned response?
Is it instinct for a fox or raccoon to find a way into your chicken pen? Now, I'm not trying to say that other responses are wrong, but that we should consider the possibilities before we try to convince ourselves that all animals simply run on instinct.
I read a story in the latest Predator Hunting annual about " the real reason rabbits scream". This story raises many questions for me as to why predators react to this sound. The author "reasons" that the rabbit does this as a last ditch effort to get another predator to distract the one trying to kill it, just long enough for it to get away. Is this possible? Would this not be a form of "reasoning"? How does a rabbit come to such a conclusion? If these animals are so vocal, then why are they only heard when they are about to die?
And finally, does a coyote "hang up" at a distance because it is concerned as to what might be out there hunting in it's territory? Would this not be a form of "reasoning"? Or is it simply instinct to just stop before it proceeds? If so, then wouldn't it's next actions be fairly predictable? If predators can be so easily patterned, then why are coyote populations increasing all over the country, despite our best efforts to wipe it off the planet.
My intention was not to offend anyone, but to look at predators in multiple dimensions.
 
NASA. Using French on this board?? WOW!!!

Grumpy,regarding the article you read.
"How does a rabbit come to such a conclusion" the more important question I believe is " How did the author come to such a conclusion.

I don't believe there are only two choices of things affecting animal behavior, instinct and thinking. There is also reaction to stimuli.And yes animals can be patterned, else how would you know where to put your blind, tree stand, or where to call from. None of these things work every time, but when I do something, whether it is call, not call, move, wave or whatever, I am looking for a specific response and it is a response that I have seen before.
Some animals are more skilled at problem solving. Horses handling gate latches, dogs doing remarkable things, like getting help for Timmy when he keeps falling in the well /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif , gulls dropping clams on the rocks all demonstrate natural selection at work. Interfere with them while they are doing these tasks by focusing their attention on you calling and they will not usually ignore the stimuli to continue with their problem solving. It truly is a case of "Root hog, or die". Call it thinking if you want to.

As far as wiping the coyote from the planet. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Have you read the stories here? Coyotes ain't got much to worry about......'cept around here of course. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Originally posted by Redfrog:
[qb]If I say "Black", you would sit there.
If I say "black dog" you would look,
If I say " big , black, mean,ugly, dog" You would stand up and look.
If I say " oh Crap! here he comes." You would move out, scream, beg, cry, whine like a little girl, shoot until your gun was empty or whatever.

So when I call, I don't start by saying "Black", I start by screaming "Big Black Dog In your Yard"

[/qb]
Click to expand...
From the mouths of frogs comes great wisdom. (everyone gets lucky.)

I like your analgy here. It's exactly what I've found to be true when calling predators.
 
RedFrog,

OK that sounds GREAT!!!

Tell me this... Where can I get one of those "Big Black Dog in Your Yard" calls? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Is it in English or French? If it's in French I'm not sure these North Florida redneck coyotes can understand French? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Maybe I should get one that says "Hey Bubba! Therz wunna dem bigole' black dawgs in y'allz nek-o-dah-woodz"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

$bob$
 
Idhunter,
"Tell me this... Where can I get one of those "Big Black Dog in Your Yard" calls" that call is available from Rich Cronk in his cowhorn howler. FOXPRO also has some outstanding coyote vocals. I sure like their locator and challenge calls.

"Is it in English or French? If it's in French I'm not sure these North Florida redneck coyotes can understand French? "

See that's the beauty. If it's French, the Redneck coyotes think they can kick a$$ cause the French never won a fight. And if you need a translater, I suggest one of them little Cajun girls from Louisiana. I hear they are real low maintenance. I prefer them because they like "All Things Swampy" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
RedFrog,

ROFLMSRAO (Rolling On Floor Laughing My Southern Redneck A$$ Off)... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif :eek: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif :eek: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

$bob$
 


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