Why no love for the 223 wssm? Why so much love for 6.5s in ARs?

Originally Posted By: barkI went back and read almost everything I could find in the archives on the 243wssm in the ar and watched all your videos that pertained to your ar. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on a future build. I really wanted a 243wssm with a fast twist barrel to shoot 105 grain + bullets but I am unsure how it would work in an ar-15. I figured I would use Oly arms UMAR lower. What's your thoughts on this?

I can tell you that I miss having mine and I'm planning to do it again down the line.
I think you're on the right track, that if you want to run the 105's (or bigger) than a UMAR might be the best way to go.
I know one fella that shoots 105 Amax from factory Pmags.
I used to shoot them from modified Pmags to seat them a little longer. That's obviously not necessary, but if you want to run a VLD or a 105 Hybrid. You're going to want a longer oal, or you'll run into issues with the ogive being set inside the case mouth and that's just not good.
 
What I'm seeing in this post is a bit of poorly applied mathematical rules of thumb and speculation from someone that has trouble spelling the word "capacity," attempting to argue against someone that has actually been there and done that.

What I haven't seen mentioned are two straight forward and rational arguments that answer the two questions:

1) Why no love for the 223WSSM?

For it's intended application, there's nothing wrong with the 223rem and there's really not a great way to improve upon it without making considerable sacrifices. WSSM uppers, mags, and ammo cost a heck of a lot more than 223rem uppers, mags, and ammo, and the reality is that there's really only so many yards that a low BC .224" bullet can really cover effectively, so the juice isn't worth the squeeze to most of us. Even if feeding reliability and barrel life are ignored, the cost of adoption and the return on that investment just aren't there for most of us.

2) Why so much love for the 6, 6.5, and 6.8mm cartridges in the AR platform?

It seems that somewhere in the 6 to 6.8mm ballpark is the ideal mix for case capacity (set by action diameter and length) balanced by performance for the intended application. For big game hunting, most folks want a minimum of 100grn bullet weight and want a trajectory offered by a round running somewhere between 2700-3000fps. Much slower than that, in terms of popular opinion, then your MPBR suffers, much lighter, and penetration and killing power gets "iffy". The 300 Whisper and Blackout have a lot of traction, but I think they won't have the staying power that the 6-6.8mm cartridges have had, simply because not many guys really want to hunt with a 2000fps ballpark cartridge. There's also a lot of traction for a pelt friendly cartridge (lower velocity) that anchors coyotes a bit better than 22cals (more bullet weight) without doing as much damage as larger case rounds running larger bullets like 243win. In other words, there's just enough capacity in an AR-compatible cartridge to drive a 6 to 6.8mm bullet of just enough weight to a speed just fast enough to make them very well suited mid-sized game rifles (deer and down), and just slow enough with just enough speed to keep fur hunters happy too.

I have been through two 243WSSM's, one in a bolt gun, one in an AR (bought a used DTech upper). I was leaning towards a 25WSSM DTI upper when I came across the used 243WSSM, which actually ended up being an advantage, because I started measuring some of the factory rounds in 25, and many were over mag length, so it would have been a reload only proposition for me. The WSSM cases really find a home in the AR platform. If a guy wants more performance in a bolt gun, they can easily run a longer action, but if you want mid to big game hunting performance in an AR, with a flat trajectory (as opposed to going with a 30cal or 45cal slow ball), then the WSSM's really shine.
 
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Originally Posted By: cbass16Originally Posted By: barkI went back and read almost everything I could find in the archives on the 243wssm in the ar and watched all your videos that pertained to your ar. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on a future build. I really wanted a 243wssm with a fast twist barrel to shoot 105 grain + bullets but I am unsure how it would work in an ar-15. I figured I would use Oly arms UMAR lower. What's your thoughts on this?

I can tell you that I miss having mine and I'm planning to do it again down the line.
I think you're on the right track, that if you want to run the 105's (or bigger) than a UMAR might be the best way to go.
I know one fella that shoots 105 Amax from factory Pmags.
I used to shoot them from modified Pmags to seat them a little longer. That's obviously not necessary, but if you want to run a VLD or a 105 Hybrid. You're going to want a longer oal, or you'll run into issues with the ogive being set inside the case mouth and that's just not good.

Do you think the heavy bullets are the way to go in this platform, or would you stick to something like the 87 grain vmax?
 
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Originally Posted By: barkDo you think the heavy bullets are the way to go in this platform, or would you stick to something like the 87 grain vmax?

For predator hunting? Stick with 75-87gr bullets and life just gets easier.
The 105s are brutal on fur, and the rare need for the ballistics of a 105 are far and few between.
If you want to run it for dual purpose, like I was doing...then the 8 twist and 105s aren't bad. But a 10 twist and 75s for predators and 95s for deer are just fine and dandy.
 
I didn't plan on using it for predator hunting. Mostly 600+ yard target shooting. I like light and short for predators.
Thanks for the info cbass
 
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