Wolf Attack on Dogs (Pics not Suitable for Some)

Micheal,
I was not twisting your words but commenting on the meaning I was deriving out of them. If the interpretation was incorrect then that was possibly the fault of the reader. I'm not a bear hound out looking for a fight but you were so adamant about your position and, yet, I could not derive exactly what your position was so I wanted to call you on it. In truth I still don't know it completely but your last paragraph helps explain why you are frustrated with the original post.
Have a good one, Christopher.
 
Mr. McCasland

You stated that "Bear dogs are tougher than Mt. Lion dogs".
The houndsmen around here use the same dogs for both. I'm not looking for a fight, but could you tell me the difference??

Thanks
Charlie
 
I worked a long while with a hound man. He talked a great deal about the difference between hunting lions and hunting bears. Yes they use the same dogs or breeds of dogs for both, but in this country lions will occasionally run a ways but will tree fairly easily. Bears are a whole different critter. First off they will run much further, they don't come to bay easily and usually don't tree, they will stand and fight. Dogs will hold a bear but dogs get hurt all the time doing it. Lots of dogs put on bear are flat warn out at the end of the trail or if they are hunting from a camp, they will wear themselves out before th week is up. It takes a special animal to really excell at bear hunting because the hunt is long and hard and deadly serious at the end of the trail. Houndmen that go after alot of bears generally breed their dogs bigger and stronger and just plain tougher. It takes a dog with brains and attitude to pile in on a cornered bear and live.

He was a funny guy and when he was hunting bears a lot his hound pack must have been something to see. Most of his dogs were a hond breed, but in the pack was a German Shorthair bird dog and a Rat Terrier. He said the shorthair was quick as lightning and the Terrier would latch onto anything at any time. If he was fairly sure the bear was dead, but locked in a hard to get at place, he'd turn the terrier lose on the bear. The little monster would dart in and latch on, if the bear didn't react he would feel more confident about wading in ands grabbing on to pull the bear out.

Granted my experience is fairly local and it might be different in other parts of the country, but the essentials of bear hunting can't be all that different.
 
Thanks Micheal.........Come to think of it, I did hear a fellow say that Lions are short-winded and tree pretty quickly but Bears can go for a long long ways.
As far as you'r co-worker having a Short Hair in with his hounds, they are bred as versital hunting dogs so I don't see why not. In NAVDA trials (which are pretty much dominated by Short Hairs) one of the tests is trailing.
I'm not going to get in the Big Bad Wolf debate but I do hate seeing what's happening to the hound hunters around here. It's just Wolves going about the business of being Wolves but they are territorial and the hounds baying alerts them of another K-9 in their territory whitch they won't tolerate. Some very well known outfitters are having to shut down and that sure doesn't seem right. I don't know what the answer is, Idaho and Montana are trying to implement seasons on them and hopefully that's a step towards controlling the numbers.

Take Care
Charlie
 
I absolutely know that a season will be welcomed by many. A Wolf pelt would be a great piece to have. Down in this area Short Hairs are very popular and you are right they are very versital, very strong, can be very fast movers and don't appear to be smart enough to know when they are tired. I hunted for a number of years with a fella that had the most consitently fast moving animal I've ever seen. I called it "the Sizzeling Dog". When we worked grass land country that dog would pass by with a "sssssssssssssss" sound as it passed by in the grass. That animal would streak by, pick up a cactus burr on one foot and pick it up never to miss a beat, if she picked up cactus in two feet she would skip for a while on one foot then the other until the cactus fell off. Larry would say oopps shes got a flat, nope its fixed. At the end of a hard huntin' day the dog would resemble a porcupine with cactus needles polking out all over. Pain wwas not in it's vocabulary. then we could talk about how she looked after one of her many rattle snake bites. She wasn't much of a pointing dog, but it was a retrieving fool and it loved water. The darned fool would bring back doves we didn't shoot. Both the dog and the hunter are now gone, I miss both of them.
 
Wolves attacking hounds is getting quite common in northwestern Wisconsin. The idea of a bell was tried there. The response from the last fellow
I heard that lost 2 dogs, is the bell acts like a dinner bell to the wolves. The notion that this is just some freak accident for the two animal types just came in conflict does not wash with me. The wolf packs are now focusing on dogs at bay. This is a result of the wolves loosing thier fear of man. The mpls star tribune
ran an article about a fellow having his bird dog attacked by wolves and then heading for him. He shot at them with bird shot and they fled. Then came the DNR response that they would not press charges against the man for there was no wolf corpse to use as evidence. My point is not the wolves have no place, it is the wolf is getting not to know thier place. I honestly think in the next 10 years you will read that wolves have taken a kid at a bus stop, got a hiker or taken out a bowhunter a they approach THIER deer.
 
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This is a serious question. Can you run some BIG dogs with your normal hounds? It seems like there must be a solution to this problem other than to stop hunting with hounds. Or could you work up a pitbull cross that will trach the Wolf a lesson, man there must be a way to deal with this! .... I am seriously thinking that a season is comming to help take care of this problem.

When there is a season there is an oppertunity here. We will need some high quality recordings of baying hounds. It sounds like the wolf would be a sucker for this sound.
 
Told this before. There are "not" suppose to be wolve's in Iowa.

Winter snowfly Circa;1972, Just outside [SouWest]of Rhodes, Iowa. Small town 15 miles SouWest of me. We had a very large male Black-N-Tan [110lb]brute & a large male Walker hound. Both were fearless. By "fearless" I mean would dive headlong into the face of a buzz-saw coyote. Not just one beat to ground. Takes some brass to do that, no doubt.

These 2 hounds were running a fresh coyote track in a large section. They came upon a wolf track, took that insted. About an hr into this. I was riding shotgun with one of my Dad's buds. We were setting high up on a hill on the gravel roadway, watching a long open valley, looking for the pushout. Here they all 3 came. Very large dark colored wolf.

They caught this wolf over the opposite side of a high ridgeline. About a city block from us. We grabbed our guns & trudged as quick as we could through the deep snow, heading to help those hounds.

Took us 10 minutes or so, until we topped that ridgeline. Here came back both hounds, plastered in blood. Dogs had numerous puncture wounds & open gash's. All over their muzzle, head, neck chest & upper legs. They were beat bad & exhausted. Wolf was gone.

Seen one other wolf[cream colored]. Winter snowfly circa;1998. Just 10 miles NorEast of me.
 
well i guess we will just have to sit back and wait for a predator caller to call in a pack and get eatin up.but thats ok he should not have sounded like a hurt animal.news flash !!!!if he shows his teeth he has problems.had it been one of my dogs i would have been on the 6:00 news..
 
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The wolf packs are now focusing on dogs at bay. This is a result of the wolves loosing thier fear of man.



I don't think wolf and dog interactions have anything to do with wolf fear of man. Wolves have never been afraid of dogs! Why should they be, they are the superior animal in strength and survival skills.

Same goes for coyotes and mountain lions. They consider dogs to be food. Coyotes and lions have been eating pets of all kinds in Colorado for years. When wolves become common in CO, they will eat pets and hunting dogs too.
 
Why does a bear run from a couple of hounds then? My conclusion that they realize the connection between man and hounds. I no longer live in NW Wisc. but still spend time there with friends that do. The wolves are coming into yards at nite. Granted this shows some shyness of man.
My point is unless you can shoot at one once and a while it is a matter of time till some elderly person goes out to get the mail and breaks a hip and they takem. For those that live in the burbs or city this may seem like a far fetched scenario, but look at the cat attacks in Cal.
Good discussion, but time to fish.
 
I think it is time for regulated hunts on wolves. Look how coyotes start to act when they are in areas closed to hunting. Regulated hunts would also provide some badly needed data on populations. There are some people who are over stating the danger to people making their efforts counter productive to the arguement for legal hunts.
 
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I feel he is more at fault than ever in that he was not close enough to protect his animals , had to run back to the truck for gun?



It is ILLEGAL in Idaho to shoot a wolf attacking a dog. Even tho he likely would have, by law, he couldn't. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

By Idaho law, you may only shoot a wolf if it is attacking livestock on either private land, or on land where the shooter has grazing rights. AND the shooter must be the livestock owner or his "agent." PLUS, which is idiotic, you must prove the wolf was attacking the livestock /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.
Also by law, you may only "non-injuriously harrass" a wolf to scare it away.

It's not possible to put yourself in this guy's shoes- so until and if we're "in his shoes," and it happens to us- I don't think we really know how we feel, it's a whole different ball game to watch and comment from the side lines /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif. As for if it's a true story... come on /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif! Be careful tho, this story's threads are being shut down and bringing out the worst side of us /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif... Oh, and if you aren't in Idaho and seeing first hand the effects of this issue- think twice, again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Ya'll are getting way to real about this.Sorry about the guys dogs tho'.I'm just glad we ain;t got wolves in Mississippi yet!Durn snakes are bad enuf pest.
 
Shoot and Dig boys Shoot and Dig
Apperently they have been spotted near my place and if I am calling and they get to close I wont wait to see if he wants to eat me!!!! And Wolves are Extreamly terratorial and barking (baying) dogs would be a dinner bell no doubt in my mind I would pull the trigger. As for the loss I understand the point of things happen, But when their hunted down and torchured (sp) that is kind of messt up. bottom line Wolvs have no place near populated areas what good could they possibly do??? keep them in the far outreaches of the vast north.
 
Wicoyote, Do you think that you are above the law? Changing the law is one thing, ignoring it is a whole different matter and should have no place on this forum.
 
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Why does a bear run from a couple of hounds then? My conclusion that they realize the connection between man and hounds



I don't think it's the connection. Coyotes, lions and bears all run from dogs when the dogs behave as the aggressor. Otherwise, they will go ahead and eat them if it suits them. apparently wolves will do the same. After all, wolves will kill a coyote every chance they get, why should they be afraid of a dog?

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My point is unless you can shoot at one once and a while it is a matter of time till some elderly person goes out to get the mail and breaks a hip and they takem. For those that live in the burbs or city this may seem like a far fetched scenario, but look at the cat attacks in Cal.




Black bears and mountain lions have a well established track record of killing and eating people. Not frequently, but it happens regularly. Right off the top of my head, I can recall three cases in the past few years in Colorado alone of lions attacking and killing people. In two cases, they ate all or part of the person. In the other case the lion didn't have time to eat the person but probably would have.

Wolves on the other hand don't seem to have any such track record. I have been reading warnings on the internet about wolves eating people since Al Gore invented it but it seems to be more paranoia about wolves in general than factual.
 
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As for if it's a true story... come on ! Be careful tho, this story's threads are being shut down and bringing out the worst side of us ...



I never doubted the truth of the story. I hold the intent of the writer of the story up to careful scrutiny as to what his agenda was in writing it.

I also question the intent of the member who posted it on PM, given that he did not respond to any of the criticism of the intent of his post, nor to the fact that he embellished it in the last paragraph.

Threads don't bring out the worst in people, people themselves are responsible for what they say here.
 
"I never doubted the truth of the story. I hold the intent of the writer of the story up to careful scrutiny as to what his agenda was in writing it.

I also question the intent of the member who posted it on PM, given that he did not respond to any of the criticism of the intent of his post, nor to the fact that he embellished it in the last paragraph."


There should be no need to scrutinize the intent of the writer or the poster. The intent is clear; to illustrate the impact that canadian wolves have on Idahoans. Of course the writer has an agenda! The agenda is the point!

The salient point lost in this thread is that social policy, as implemented by the federal govt., places the welfare of wolves in the wild over the welfare of the people who must live with them. Secondary to the status of the wolf is; the health of elk and deer, the livelihood of local ranchers, our heritage of hunting. The point is not whether this man lost his dogs fairly, the point is that he lost his dogs unnecessarily and as a direct result of federal policy. Hound hunting in Idaho is forever changed. Whether you agree with hound hunting or not, you should be outraged that your hunting heritage has lost ground. No game = no license sales = no revenue for the state or local economy = loss of representation for hunters = etc etc.

The residents of Central Idaho have been fighting a losing battle against outside interests for many years. The implications of this struggle have many consequences for all of us who hunt, not just those of us in Idaho. Its easy to feel warm and fuzzy about wolves running wild in Idaho when its somebody else's dog being eaten.
 
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