Wolf Attack on Dogs (Pics not Suitable for Some)
- Thread starter sierrabravo45
- Start date
WICOYOTE
New member
Rim Runner, no I am not above the law but if it comes down to me, my family, my dogs the friendly, fluffy, Wolf will die of lead poision. I don't care if it is rite, wrong or otherwise I am at the top of the food chain and intend to stay there. Not trying to start an argument, but if you can honestly tell me that if you were in that mans boots but you had a firearm you would have sat idely by and watched your hounds (pets) get mauled?
Rim_Runner
New member
Quote:
Not trying to start an argument, but if you can honestly tell me that if you were in that mans boots but you had a firearm you would have sat idely by and watched your hounds (pets) get mauled?
That’s a good question. I’m not sure what I would do. My first step would be to try to scare them off with a shot in the air. From there it’s very hard to tell. I may have misunderstood your first post, I thought you were advocating killing any wolf that got anywhere near you.
Not trying to start an argument, but if you can honestly tell me that if you were in that mans boots but you had a firearm you would have sat idely by and watched your hounds (pets) get mauled?
That’s a good question. I’m not sure what I would do. My first step would be to try to scare them off with a shot in the air. From there it’s very hard to tell. I may have misunderstood your first post, I thought you were advocating killing any wolf that got anywhere near you.
Just a thought. Could a member from an area where wolves are actively hunted let us know how the wolves in their area act when they come in contact with a human respond to this post? I realize that they are federally protected here in the US. I would just like some first hand info on them and how they act in areas where they do get shot at.
Dave Allen
New member
engine6. well said !! i always enjoy seeing some guy a 1000-2000 miles away thats knows what we need ?? says everthings fine...wolves used to be here get over it...the difference is back in the day there was nowhere near the popluation of people there is today...if the guy who wrote the story is tilted towards a anti-wolf agenda..so what!! there's plenty of pro wolf agenda out there..how many times have we been lied to??how many twisted stories??
IdahoElk
New member
Engine6 THANK YOU! "there's plenty of pro wolf agenda out there..how many times have we been lied to??how many twisted stories??" I HEAR YA!!!!!!!! As for comment from someone who lives where wolves are hunted... those wolves will have different behavior because of being hunted, they'll have a fear of humans, where the wolves here don't have that, so there isn't much fair comparison there.
Marlin 25-36
New member
If you want to read about wolf lovers go to wolfweb.com
It is an eye opener. So many people have no clue and believe everything they read about Fluffy the Wolf.
It is an eye opener. So many people have no clue and believe everything they read about Fluffy the Wolf.
Longcruise
New member
Quote:
There should be no need to scrutinize the intent of the writer or the poster. The intent is clear; to illustrate the impact that canadian wolves have on Idahoans. Of course the writer has an agenda! The agenda is the point!
FWIW, I'm in near 100% agreement with what you say. OTOH, I resent attempts to manipulate opinion as the poster did with this one. I equally resent the pro-wolfers attempts to create a perception about wolves that is less than truthful.
The writer of the article took his very personal and traumatic experience in the loss of his dogs and used it to press an anti wolf agenda. The person who posted his article went even further by adding edited comments at the end of the article that were not a part of the writers actual newspaper article. If you didn't catch that, then go back to the original post and click on the link to the article. then compare it with our members transcript of that article.
I'm simply disgusted by dishonesty in public debate and discourse be about wolves or school lunches! It seems to be endemic in our country and of course the internet (the misinformation highway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif) makes it all the easier!
There should be no need to scrutinize the intent of the writer or the poster. The intent is clear; to illustrate the impact that canadian wolves have on Idahoans. Of course the writer has an agenda! The agenda is the point!
FWIW, I'm in near 100% agreement with what you say. OTOH, I resent attempts to manipulate opinion as the poster did with this one. I equally resent the pro-wolfers attempts to create a perception about wolves that is less than truthful.
The writer of the article took his very personal and traumatic experience in the loss of his dogs and used it to press an anti wolf agenda. The person who posted his article went even further by adding edited comments at the end of the article that were not a part of the writers actual newspaper article. If you didn't catch that, then go back to the original post and click on the link to the article. then compare it with our members transcript of that article.
I'm simply disgusted by dishonesty in public debate and discourse be about wolves or school lunches! It seems to be endemic in our country and of course the internet (the misinformation highway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif) makes it all the easier!
Rim_Runner
New member
In some of these posts I see references to Canadian wolves. I haven’t seen this before, are you talking about a gray wolf or is this something different? If so what makes them different from the wolves that are native to northern U. S.?
WICOYOTE
New member
Todd I am not advocating anything, but if it comes to the welfare of my family, wich includes my dogs, there is no law that will stop me from protecting them. If your family doesn't meen that much to you that is your deal. Mine meens more than anything to me and will always be first and formost no matter who says it is wrong.
Rim_Runner
New member
When I lived in Northwest Montana the most feared animal wasn’t the wolf or the grizzly even though both lived in that part of the state. What was feared most was to run into a cow moose with a calf.
Quote:
In some of these posts I see references to Canadian wolves. I haven’t seen this before, are you talking about a gray wolf or is this something different? If so what makes them different from the wolves that are native to northern U. S.?
There have been claims that the wolves from Canada are larger and more aggressive than the American Gray Wolf. I don't know if the claims are true. Probably depends on who's science you want to believe. What is true is that the wolves in Idaho before the introduction of the Canadian wolves are now lumped into the "experimental population". At one point the courts ordered the removal of all introduced wolves. The reason was (in a nutshell) that any native wolves were now mixed with the introduced wolves and, thus, the native wolves lost thier protected status. The court decision was overturned.
What I find distressing is the inability of sportsmen to recognize that the social motives behind this program go way beyond and are much more sinister than the biology of wolves in the Northwest United States. The groups behind this program (Defenders of Wildlife, The Audubon Society, etc.) are anti-hunting. Like the spotted owl, this is manipulation of land-use policy through the courts and hunting priviledges are in the cross-hairs. Be patient and these groups will find a species in need of protection in your state.
In some of these posts I see references to Canadian wolves. I haven’t seen this before, are you talking about a gray wolf or is this something different? If so what makes them different from the wolves that are native to northern U. S.?
There have been claims that the wolves from Canada are larger and more aggressive than the American Gray Wolf. I don't know if the claims are true. Probably depends on who's science you want to believe. What is true is that the wolves in Idaho before the introduction of the Canadian wolves are now lumped into the "experimental population". At one point the courts ordered the removal of all introduced wolves. The reason was (in a nutshell) that any native wolves were now mixed with the introduced wolves and, thus, the native wolves lost thier protected status. The court decision was overturned.
What I find distressing is the inability of sportsmen to recognize that the social motives behind this program go way beyond and are much more sinister than the biology of wolves in the Northwest United States. The groups behind this program (Defenders of Wildlife, The Audubon Society, etc.) are anti-hunting. Like the spotted owl, this is manipulation of land-use policy through the courts and hunting priviledges are in the cross-hairs. Be patient and these groups will find a species in need of protection in your state.
Rim_Runner
New member
Quote:
RIM RUNNER these canadian gray wolves are not native to Idaho, they are a much larger breed than that native to the area, by maybe 50 lbs + that's part of whats causing the problems, they don't belong in this ecosystem.
Do you have some documentation on these claims?
RIM RUNNER these canadian gray wolves are not native to Idaho, they are a much larger breed than that native to the area, by maybe 50 lbs + that's part of whats causing the problems, they don't belong in this ecosystem.
Do you have some documentation on these claims?
IdahoElk
New member
Rim Runner /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif I was shocked to see you asking if I have some kind of proof /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif. Well here's this:
Source: Wikipedia Encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org
Gray Wolf (introduced) -Scientific classification
Kingdom:Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Canidae
Genus: Canis
Species:C. lupus
The Gray Wolf (Canis lupus; also spelled Grey Wolf, see spelling differences; other forms: Timber Wolf, Wolf) is a mammal in the order Carnivora. Height varies from 24 to 35 inches at the shoulder, and weight can range anywhere from 55-143 pounds, making wolves the largest among all wild canids. Although rarely encountered, extreme specimens reaching 176 lb. have been recorded in Canada.
Great Plains WolfScientific classification
Kingdom:Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Canidae
Genus: Canis
Species:C. lupus
Subspecies:C. l. nubilus
The Great Plains Wolf (native) (also known as the Buffalo Wolf) is an endangered subspecies of the Gray Wolf and native to North America. These wolves once ranged across the western United States and southern Canada, but were almost completely wiped out by the 1930s. In 1974, they were listed as an endangered species, and since then their numbers have climbed. A typical Great Plains wolf is 4 1/2 - 6 1/2 feet long from snout to tail tip, and weighs between 60 and 110 pounds. They usually feature a coat blended with gray, black, buff, or red.
SO you're looking at "up to 110" lbs vs. "up to 176" lbs
The wolves brought here were trapped in Canada, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif hello /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif , & released in central Idaho in the mid-90's. The "documentation" is obviously out there, I got the above in less than 10 minutes.
The government declared there were no wolves in Idaho at the time of the "re"introduction, being part of the reason for it. Many, many natives who live in the wooded & mountainous areas will tell you the wolf was never "gone" completely /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif, which is part of what leads some to the beleif that the intro had alterior motives /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif.
I personally beleive that Engine6 may be right, if the big game herds are down to numbers that don't allow hunting, that's one less reason for people to own guns. If people are scared of wolves, they stay off public lands. NOW PEOPLE DON'T GET ALL HUFFY and attack me for saying that, we are entitled to opinions and theories so r-e-l-a-x /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I can see the rebuttal coming already /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. 'Tis what it is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif. I can say I live here, I do my research almost daily on what's happening, keep up with Fish and Game activities with wolves and hunt and spend time outdoors here. Beleive what you will, I can see first hand some of what's going on /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif.
Source: Wikipedia Encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org
Gray Wolf (introduced) -Scientific classification
Kingdom:Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Canidae
Genus: Canis
Species:C. lupus
The Gray Wolf (Canis lupus; also spelled Grey Wolf, see spelling differences; other forms: Timber Wolf, Wolf) is a mammal in the order Carnivora. Height varies from 24 to 35 inches at the shoulder, and weight can range anywhere from 55-143 pounds, making wolves the largest among all wild canids. Although rarely encountered, extreme specimens reaching 176 lb. have been recorded in Canada.
Great Plains WolfScientific classification
Kingdom:Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Canidae
Genus: Canis
Species:C. lupus
Subspecies:C. l. nubilus
The Great Plains Wolf (native) (also known as the Buffalo Wolf) is an endangered subspecies of the Gray Wolf and native to North America. These wolves once ranged across the western United States and southern Canada, but were almost completely wiped out by the 1930s. In 1974, they were listed as an endangered species, and since then their numbers have climbed. A typical Great Plains wolf is 4 1/2 - 6 1/2 feet long from snout to tail tip, and weighs between 60 and 110 pounds. They usually feature a coat blended with gray, black, buff, or red.
SO you're looking at "up to 110" lbs vs. "up to 176" lbs
The wolves brought here were trapped in Canada, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif hello /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif , & released in central Idaho in the mid-90's. The "documentation" is obviously out there, I got the above in less than 10 minutes.
The government declared there were no wolves in Idaho at the time of the "re"introduction, being part of the reason for it. Many, many natives who live in the wooded & mountainous areas will tell you the wolf was never "gone" completely /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif, which is part of what leads some to the beleif that the intro had alterior motives /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif.
I personally beleive that Engine6 may be right, if the big game herds are down to numbers that don't allow hunting, that's one less reason for people to own guns. If people are scared of wolves, they stay off public lands. NOW PEOPLE DON'T GET ALL HUFFY and attack me for saying that, we are entitled to opinions and theories so r-e-l-a-x /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I can see the rebuttal coming already /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. 'Tis what it is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif. I can say I live here, I do my research almost daily on what's happening, keep up with Fish and Game activities with wolves and hunt and spend time outdoors here. Beleive what you will, I can see first hand some of what's going on /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif.
Marlin 25-36
New member
What gets me is the pro wolf people keep talking about the large prey populations and how the wolves will reduce the herds in a "natural" way. But what is going to happen when the wolf population is very high and decimates the prey population so there is no wild food available? I don't like to think about all those starving wolves out there dieing off. They won't die quietly like starving deer do.
IdahoElk,
Regarding the question of species. In either case, either by coincidence or design, the wolf advocates have a further agenda. If the wolves that were in idaho were a different species, the native population is now in competition with the introduced population. If they are the same species as the Canadian wolves then how can they be endangered? The info you provided is interesting.
BTW, rumor has it that a govt. hunter killed 2 within a half mile of the elementary school in Challis. Wish I could verify. Unfortunately, I fear encounters like the one described in this thread will be more common.
Regarding the question of species. In either case, either by coincidence or design, the wolf advocates have a further agenda. If the wolves that were in idaho were a different species, the native population is now in competition with the introduced population. If they are the same species as the Canadian wolves then how can they be endangered? The info you provided is interesting.
BTW, rumor has it that a govt. hunter killed 2 within a half mile of the elementary school in Challis. Wish I could verify. Unfortunately, I fear encounters like the one described in this thread will be more common.
Rim_Runner
New member
No need to be shocked, I asked for documentation not “proof”. As a self-proclaimed expert on the matter, you should know the difference. You should be expecting your claims to be questioned. Your “proof” is weak at very best. There is no reason that the ranges of both species didn’t overlap. Their ranges have a lot more to do with habitat type than international boarders. Can you document that the wolves in Idaho were a separate subspecies from the ones that were re-introduced? You also make an error in the size comparisons. You compare the upper limit of the size range of one species to an example of extreme size in the other species. Some people have also called the “Canadian wolf” more aggressive and yet don’t show where they get that conclusion. As far as your, I live here so I should know defense, would you allow politicians in Washington, DC to use the same logic?