Wolves

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The failure of the wolf populations of the past are the result of poison,not hunters.


That's a good point. If you study the books and reports of the old time wolfers they relied heavly on poison. I think regulated hunting would be a positive thing for wolf populations in the lower 48.
 
Wolves will eat Coyotes just like they will eat anything else they can catch, but they do drive out populations of Coyotes Frank44. As far as the Wolf situation spinning out of control and being frustrating as hell, I would be the first to agree with you. Something needs to be done and fast, but........ The ones talking about poaching, shoot, shovel and shut up and any other illegal means of controlling wolf populations aught to be ashamed of themselves. Thats exactly the kind of garbage that the anti hunter groups love to see when they read these pages and you can bet your bottom dollar that they do read. I would think that an organization such as Predator Masters would not stand behind anyone on this site who believe they have the right to take the law into their own hands for any reason. Responsible sportsman who have any ethics and values dont think or talk that way. We have a responsibility to set the example and work hard to preserve our way of life that is presently under attack from numerous directions. If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem. I may be new here, but I am not new to being a sportsman and I certainly dont shy away from what is right. I apologize for the feathers I ruffle with this post but right is right and outlaws give us all a bad name. Regulated hunting and other means to control populations need to be implemented. Not poaching.
 
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Montana ranchers dont have to SSS anymore,now they can shoot and pic up the phone and let the wolf biologists do the shoveling,we have had 7 wolves shot by ranchers so far under this new rule that allows the to shoot wolves caught "chasing" or harasing thier livestock or pets.Every rancher in this state has a right to take the law into his own hands and thats the way it should be,when the Gov. of your state pulls his head out of his [beeep] then maybe every state in the west with wolves can move on with thier plans for population control and start moving in the right direction.My family ranches and we raise cattle,I hope to God I catch one "chasing" our stock,we have lost calves to them before,Id be more than happy to take the law into my own hands,and its perfectly legal,are my ethics and values in question if I do get the chance?
 
Well Nonya, if the Federal and State Govt allow rancher to do this then it isnt taking the law into their own hands now is it. If the act is against the law then it would be taking the law into your own hands. I fully respect your and your families rights to protect your property and I believe that wolves killing livestock need to be killed. I never said or even implied that their isnt a problem that needs fixed and I am well aware that the State of Wyoming is holding things up. That doesnt excuse the fact that there are people who openly state in not so many words that they support the indiscrimanate killing of wolves. The shoot on site mentality of a wolf just simply because it is a wolf and they dont like them or feel threatened by them is pure and simple BS. Whats next, if someone doesnt like eagles because they kill upland game birds or big horn sheep, should they be able to just shoot them? Explain to me the difference. Protected is protected regardless if people agree or disagree with their presence. The legal killing of a problem animal does not fit into what I was trying to say so dont put words into my mouth Nonya.
 
No kidding,for years and years ranchers kept them in check,when they became a hot topic with the tree huggers it became a big deal if someone killed one.When these predators are taking money out of your pocket you have a different point of view on the situation,its real easy for you to sit back in front of your computer and preach ethics when you have nothing to loose and an ego to build up.If some varmit came into your home and took a couple thousand dollars from you every so often how long would your ethics keep you from "taking the law into your hands" when the real law tells you "those cattle were killed by coyotes not wolves" and "theres nothing we can do unless we actually see them in the process of killing your livestock"?BTW killing wolves is part of the solution,the fact that we cant yet is the problem.
 
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NorOnt,
You have not read my posts very well. I never said save the Wolf and I am not a "save the wolf type". What I am saying is, dont pick and choose what laws you obey. Its illegal to indiscrimanately kill a Wolf or any other protected species. You would have a cow and scream bloody murder if someone poached a deer or elk or other species you enjoy hunting. So why would it be okay for someone to poach a wolf? And again NONYA, I have no problem with you protecting your propoerty. Slow down big fella and actually READ what I am saying. You have every right to protect your livestock and if you kill a wolf in doing so I would not question your ethics. I would question the ethics of the hunter that shoots a Wolf just because he stumbles into one. Or a mountain lion, grizzly bear or anything else you may not like. I agree the wolf situation is out of control but we as sportsman need to act responsibly, regardless of how [beeep] off we are about the situation. By having a knee jerk reaction and acting irresponsible, we are falling right into the hands of the tree huggers and anti hunting groups. They want hunters to comprimise their values, morales and ethics because it makes their point that much easier to prove. What people need to realize is this fight isnt JUST about wolves anymore when hunters start making ill advised statements in a public format, where anyone can read it, about controlling wolves with illegal methods. Its then begins to involve a renewed and refueled fight for your very right to hunt period.
 
Not sure if I'm posting in the right place but...
Wolves don't eat coyotes... they can easily and will kill them but it is not their goal to hunt coyotes. I think you'd see this if a coyote approached a wolf kill with the pack there eating and the coyote tried to get a meal. Then you'd likely see the wolves rip it apart and then continue their meal. It's more for the competition for food that this is done. Wolves and coyotes also inhabit the same areas.. as well as fox. I've hunting northern Ontario and have seen it first hand. Also have seen alot of Lynx while hunting there. There is alot of missconceptions about wolves.. there has been attacks on people, as well as coyotes, cougars and bears, but wolves are usually found in secluded areas.. not in urban areas where alot of coyotes are found. We also found coyotes in secluded areas up north also. Anyways.. I'm on my way out the door and finally got back a user name and password.. I think it's been a couple years.
 
I see wolves near our place in Augusta Mt every hunting season in the same exact places I hunt yotes,right out on the prarie with no timber at all.SongDog I buy a lion and bear tag every year,the only reason i buy a lion tag is because I hate what they have done to the deer herds on our land near here,once again if thier numbers are not kept in check by the only predator that can (HUMANS) they will destroy the deer and elk herds and then slowly die off due to lack of prey.Right now these three states have several hundred wolves running rampant,they wipe out the game in one spot and move on,and nobody can do anything about it,imagine how the outfitters in the NorthWest corner of your state feel when they cant find an elk for thier clients now because the wolves have killed or run them off,do you think they would feel unethical about killing one?Maybe you can help find them a new job to feed thier family?When you are not personally effected by the impact these animals have on ranchers,hunters,outfitters and the ecosystem we have built its real easy for you to sit atop your ethical pulpit and preach about whats right,preach all you want,nobody who is impacted by them is listening.
 
Jeb's right, the best way to deal with wolves is to SSS, Shoot, Shovel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif, and Shut up, then put the tracking collar on a semi headed to New York!!!
 
The way to keep wolves from killing game animals is to raise sheep they are a lot easier for the wolves to catch as they will kill a band of sheep in a hurry It just takes a lot of sheep Mauser
 
LOL mauser,there was about 60 sheep killed in one night on a ranch in sw MT by a couple wolves,they were havin a good ol time.
 
I have hauled feed in your area years ago and know what you are going through did a lot of trapping for the sheep raisers in eastern Mt I know how you feel with price of cattle right now loseing a calf hurts Next year I wnat to come back there and do some trapping for some one who needs if for 3 weeks or so If you know some sheep people that need the help it is free and I would also feed if need for a coulpe of weeks. I am 58 have hunted all my life and this would be a way fo saying thanks to the land owners that let me hunt all those years send me a pm sometime I would like to talk to you Mauser
 
The CMR area around Fort peck REes. has those big prime yotes they call yellow bellies,I know a guy here who goes up every winter for a month to trap yotes,he got 60-65 each for them last winter.
 
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I see wolves near our place in Augusta Mt every hunting season in the same exact places I hunt yotes,right out on the prarie with no timber at all.SongDog I buy a lion and bear tag every year,the only reason i buy a lion tag is because I hate what they have done to the deer herds on our land near here,once again if thier numbers are not kept in check by the only predator that can (HUMANS) they will destroy the deer and elk herds and then slowly die off due to lack of prey.Right now these three states have several hundred wolves running rampant,they wipe out the game in one spot and move on,and nobody can do anything about it,imagine how the outfitters in the NorthWest corner of your state feel when they cant find an elk for thier clients now because the wolves have killed or run them off,do you think they would feel unethical about killing one?Maybe you can help find them a new job to feed thier family?When you are not personally effected by the impact these animals have on ranchers,hunters,outfitters and the ecosystem we have built its real easy for you to sit atop your ethical pulpit and preach about whats right,preach all you want,nobody who is impacted by them is listening.



Good Post /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Same goes for the wolves (vermin) and bears (nuisance) in Ontario. Pretty hard on the moose and deer that generate millions of dollars for northern communities already struggling. At least bears will support an industry if they ever bring back the spring hunt. Bear meat is also good to eat, I wouldn't eat a wolf. Wolves are a liability more than anything. Some pay outfitters to hunt them but they do more harm to game animals that any good they do. Not sure what the trappers are getting for their hides ... can't imagine it is much. I don't see much of a use for them other than their pictures making nice calendars and posters for those in the southern citys who dream about how great it would be to see one someday. SSS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gifAs long as you or anyone else advocates the illegal killing of any protected or non protected animal, I will preach ethics Nonya. What amazes me is, where are all the people on this forum site who make their living in the hunting industry. Where is the site administration, moderators and everybody else. Am I all alone saying that poaching is wrong, unethical and detrimental to our sport? I dont care what the reason is. I am not any more fond of the wolf situation than any of you, but I do know the difference between right and wrong. I would be the first to buy a tag and legally hunt the wolf but no matter what you say, you cant legally justify poaching any animal. Nonya, NorOnt and Utahpredator are the collective mentality that give good law abiding sportsman a bad name and you are doing nothing but helping those that want to take away our hunting rights. WHERE IS THE OUTCRY OF SPORTSMAN WHO STAND AGAINST POACHING IN ANY FORM. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif
 
OH give it a rest. You think because nobody has jumped on your bandwagon and jumped all over these guys for saying a good wolf is basically a dead one that people aren't against poaching? Poaching is illegal and yes we all know it. Consider this for thought.. it's illegal here in Ontario for someone to have their gun out of the case 1/2 hour after sunset till 1/2 hour before sunrise. We can hunt raccoons at night legally.. I've also been told by a C.O. at the MNR here that I can legally shoot a nuisance coyote at night with any caliber I choose. I can also kill nuisance coyotes for farmers without buying a 10 dollar tag with a limit of 2 which they now have as law this year in Ontario for coyotes and wolves. Laws are guidlines... and ya.. shooting a game animal out of season is poaching. Ya we all are aware of that. Wolf and coyotes are now game animals here in Ontario but are nothing but varmints. More of a money grab I see.... but would that stop me from shooting a wolf in March that is killing sheep? Nope.. Does that change the fact that they're just a pain in the butt? Nope... Let's move on to some more constructive conversation... because the horse is dead.
 
I think no one is saying anything about SSS is that it is old news. If you were reading the bow hunting sites last winter they were very anti wolf and were giving leads to web pages with Other methods of wolf elimination. Elk and moose hunters were and are very upset at the decrease in the populations of hunted species. I have read that the moose population in Yellowstone has been eaten by the wolves. Anyone else know if it is true?
 
Gentlemen,

The only thing holding up transfer of wolf management to the states of Idaho, Wyoming and Montana is the state of Wyoming's lack of an approved wolf management plan. The reason it hasn't been approved is because they want to shoot all wolves on site (I'm paraphrasing what has been reported on the radio). Like it our not, the United States has an Endangered Species Act which was passed by the elected officials of most of your fathers. That act requires the USFWS to protect, introduce and manage endangered populations until they become viable again. We all know politics are involved with everything, and we also know we are not the only constituency in this country. Non-hunters far outnumber hunters, and they have say with what happens in this country too. Granted, many are on the fringe of reality, but I dare say, a few on this board are on the other side of that coin as well. Pressure has been extreme by the non-hunting groups to re-introduce wolves back into their native habitats. This was done in the mid 90's here the Northern Rockies. A friend of mine was in charge of the program.

There has always been compensation for ranchers who have lost livestock to wolves. Following is a link to Montana's wolf management site, which shows what has been paid out over the years. It's substantial. Below that is an article recently published in the Great Falls Tribune.

http://fwp.mt.gov/wildthings/wolf/wolfQandA.html

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051230/NEWS01/512300308/1002

The bottom line is wolves are here to stay. We are mandated by law to protect them, but, a viable hunted population is the ultimate goal. I personnaly would love to see the state of Montana open up wolf hunting, similar to cat hunting. Like Nonya has said, he and lots of others, buy a lion tag every year, on the hopes of either calling one in or coming across one while hunting.

I have two wolves on my wall, one I shot, another my buddy shot, while living in Alaska. That wolf is the highlight of my hunting career, to date. I've killed many big deer, moose, dall sheep and bear, but the wolf is still tops. I also came within inches (they have phenominal reflexes) of getting one with my recurve bow. That would have been the ultimate! I've also sat in camp at night, staring at a fire, listening to wolves howling across the river. For the life of me, I can't imagine any hunter not wanting to experience such a thrill. I do not buy into the philosophy that every deer, elk and moose are for a hunters bullet. That's not how God created the natural world. It's a balance and the wolf is part of that balance.

The wolf issue is a hot topic the utltimately ticks everyone off. I tend to steer clear of the debate but this one seems to be running in the wrong direction.

Finally, Predator Masters does not, and will not, condone any illegal activity. Those of you who condone and promote taking the law into your own hands will have a very short tenure on PM.
 
Excellent post Mike. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

If these guys really wanted to be able to hunt wolves again, they would support the reintroduction. The goal of any reintroduction program is to build a population so that the species can be "de-listed" which would allow for hunting and control.

I agree that blantant statements confessing, condoning or promoting illegal activity should result in immediate suspension from Predator Masters. That would apply to at least a couple of you.
 
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