Rich, as bad as it is, i haven't had any time to hunt the animals during the holiday wiht work and all, but i am heading out tonight and will update you on what happen when i get back. the info on the farm is this. As you may have heard from my friend yotes, the are ain western pa is all wide open, in some instances there are very thick area and some pasture type grounds, but most of it is overgrown farmland. This area in particular, is in a section that is roughly 900 acres on woods just surrounded by a patch of fields that circle the whole area, and a prison is roughly about 1000 yards from there. I went down the other day to ask permission from anohter farmer to hutn his side of the ground and asked hima few questions. HIs responce to hearing tem was, that he hears the yotes howl when a local fire company's fire whitle goes off, but, only when it's dark, never during the day. This old man is retired and dones't have much to do but odd's and ends around the house, plus, from where i am from, it's a small country town and people most often do tell you the truth, so i believe him. in this land though, there are some rolling hills, but a load of small game, that along wiht the dead deer carcass's would prob give them some feeding, but, here in western pa, we just got hit hard with a snow torm last week, and everything is covered, so ther deer weill most def be frozen solid and hard to spot with 11 inches of snow on the ground, i'll fill you all in later this evening or tom with the results of my hunt and how we appraoched it, thanks for all the help and responces, if i'm successful, i owe all if it to you fella's
yotes found, help needed
- Thread starter pitcher31
- Start date
Jimmie in Ky
New member
Guy's , I would make the trip if I could. Family and finances do not allow otherwise. And when you say anything beyond never say never I think of it as negative thinking.
Yote's post andf Hogdens last one reminded me of the way things were here when I started.30 square mile territories and no knowledge fo what I was doing.I had quite a few of those same experiences Hogden mentioned, particularly the dogs looking over the shoulder while they went elswhere or sitting down to watch while they listened at three hundred yards or so.
Back then 101 meant getting in front of them as near the feeder fields as possible.Or getting in the bedding areas .Those were the only two places I could be succesful with prey sounds. Calling more than four or five dogs a year was almost impossible.
What I did was focus on learning the largest groups territory.This wasn't easy nor do I recomend it for those with children at home because your going to be spending a lot of nights out just listening.This taught me where they were going and I could check them in daylight to find out why. This also taught me about core areas within the territories. They would howl at sunset from just a mile or so from where they had howled the night before. The next howl would be in the feeder fields. With the territory as large as it was I would loose them for a day or two at a time until I learned where to pick them up at a bedding area at the other end of the territory.The territories were so large that they would actually be in one area fofr a day or two then move to another section for a couple of days.It took two weeks for them to return to the first area where we started.
When I got all of this figured out I took six from this group in one week using a jspc3, burnham bros long range and the big male with a canine puppies tape.I didn't own a howler then and had noidea of territorial responses being a part of the make up of the coyote.Three of them came from one thousand square yard area.
Hopefully some of you will get something from this story.I'm not going to tell you it's easy under your circumstances there.Looking back I can see how this challenge affected me then. I learned a great deal just following that group.Some of you will read this and decide it's time to give up. Others will take up the challenge with a vengeance. What you do with this info is up to you. I still spend a bit of time just listening to them each winter.I let them tell me what is going on. Jimmie
Yote's post andf Hogdens last one reminded me of the way things were here when I started.30 square mile territories and no knowledge fo what I was doing.I had quite a few of those same experiences Hogden mentioned, particularly the dogs looking over the shoulder while they went elswhere or sitting down to watch while they listened at three hundred yards or so.
Back then 101 meant getting in front of them as near the feeder fields as possible.Or getting in the bedding areas .Those were the only two places I could be succesful with prey sounds. Calling more than four or five dogs a year was almost impossible.
What I did was focus on learning the largest groups territory.This wasn't easy nor do I recomend it for those with children at home because your going to be spending a lot of nights out just listening.This taught me where they were going and I could check them in daylight to find out why. This also taught me about core areas within the territories. They would howl at sunset from just a mile or so from where they had howled the night before. The next howl would be in the feeder fields. With the territory as large as it was I would loose them for a day or two at a time until I learned where to pick them up at a bedding area at the other end of the territory.The territories were so large that they would actually be in one area fofr a day or two then move to another section for a couple of days.It took two weeks for them to return to the first area where we started.
When I got all of this figured out I took six from this group in one week using a jspc3, burnham bros long range and the big male with a canine puppies tape.I didn't own a howler then and had noidea of territorial responses being a part of the make up of the coyote.Three of them came from one thousand square yard area.
Hopefully some of you will get something from this story.I'm not going to tell you it's easy under your circumstances there.Looking back I can see how this challenge affected me then. I learned a great deal just following that group.Some of you will read this and decide it's time to give up. Others will take up the challenge with a vengeance. What you do with this info is up to you. I still spend a bit of time just listening to them each winter.I let them tell me what is going on. Jimmie
Jimmie in Ky
New member
Pitcher, your going to have to figure out this groups travel pattern. You've told me enough about the farm to know what has them there at night.It's a prime feeding area.What you need to figure out is where they are coming from to get there. With territories that large they will only work it a couple of days every so often.
The place they are coming from is the better option. The only way your going to find it is to track them or be there before daylight and listen to them. They will tell you which direction they are taking when they leave which will be about an hour before sunrise.
With that much snow cover calling at night without lights is an option to consider.They can be called into more open areas at night without much dificulty.With that much pressure lights might be spooking them off from quite a distance.The set up for night calling this way is where your in pitch black shadow making it dificult for them to see into.Start near the roads and work your way in deeper with each stand.This will help keep them in front of you most of the time.Being in shadow deep enough and big enough to completely hide your silohuette is important. They can't be allowed to see any kind of movement. Large oaks here provide this for me.I've taken several this way from a single large oak left out in the middle of a field.Even a big cedar has enough shadow under it to work for you.Jimmie
The place they are coming from is the better option. The only way your going to find it is to track them or be there before daylight and listen to them. They will tell you which direction they are taking when they leave which will be about an hour before sunrise.
With that much snow cover calling at night without lights is an option to consider.They can be called into more open areas at night without much dificulty.With that much pressure lights might be spooking them off from quite a distance.The set up for night calling this way is where your in pitch black shadow making it dificult for them to see into.Start near the roads and work your way in deeper with each stand.This will help keep them in front of you most of the time.Being in shadow deep enough and big enough to completely hide your silohuette is important. They can't be allowed to see any kind of movement. Large oaks here provide this for me.I've taken several this way from a single large oak left out in the middle of a field.Even a big cedar has enough shadow under it to work for you.Jimmie
Rich Cronk
New member
Pitcher,
That old man could well be talking about my own IOWA coyotes. Fairly vocal on calm nights but pretty shut-mouthed during the day. When you have a little time, plus a few dollars saved up you might consider investing in a good coyote howler. Daytime coyotes don't often give VOCAL response, but they still come in to investigate. Good luck tonite.
That old man could well be talking about my own IOWA coyotes. Fairly vocal on calm nights but pretty shut-mouthed during the day. When you have a little time, plus a few dollars saved up you might consider investing in a good coyote howler. Daytime coyotes don't often give VOCAL response, but they still come in to investigate. Good luck tonite.
Pacoyotenut
New member
Jimmie in KY,good posts. The PA coyote does seem to have a fairly larger than normal home range.They definitly seem to be here one day and gone the next. Not returning to that specific area for another 3-5 days.Your observations seem to be right on the money.
If your family and finances would ever alough you to make it to PA,my offer still stands.I would love to hunt with ya.
Rich,glad to hear your thoughts on howling for the coyote.Basically my only luck with calling the few coyotes in,that i have,involved howling in the sequence of calling.I am about ready to give up on food source calls,and go strickly with howles,challenges,and pup distress sounds.With that being said,i went back to your web site and checked out your calls.So in the very near future,i should be a new owner of a Cronk cow horn howler.Hopefully this should up my odds here in PA.Thanks.
*Pacoyotenut*
If your family and finances would ever alough you to make it to PA,my offer still stands.I would love to hunt with ya.
Rich,glad to hear your thoughts on howling for the coyote.Basically my only luck with calling the few coyotes in,that i have,involved howling in the sequence of calling.I am about ready to give up on food source calls,and go strickly with howles,challenges,and pup distress sounds.With that being said,i went back to your web site and checked out your calls.So in the very near future,i should be a new owner of a Cronk cow horn howler.Hopefully this should up my odds here in PA.Thanks.
*Pacoyotenut*
Hey Rich,
Even though I ruffled your feathers a bit.....do I still get the commission on howler sales?????? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I am glad we appear to have bridged the east/west/south issue. There now seems to be an understanding of what everyone faces in their own areas, and there appears to be some good info that is beginning to flow.
I sure hope Rich tosses in a couple wave files now.
It great to see things going in a positive direction for a change........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Even though I ruffled your feathers a bit.....do I still get the commission on howler sales?????? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I am glad we appear to have bridged the east/west/south issue. There now seems to be an understanding of what everyone faces in their own areas, and there appears to be some good info that is beginning to flow.
I sure hope Rich tosses in a couple wave files now.
It great to see things going in a positive direction for a change........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Jimmie in Ky
New member
One interesting thing about the core areas is that they will fan out from one to hunt. Basically think of the core as the hub of the wheel. The trails out are the spokes. The feeder fields the rim. In territories that large there can be as many as three of these areas within one groups territory. These core areas are as far from human activity as they can get and provide the best cover from the elements as bedding areas. Grown up clearcuts usually provide the best cover as well as some food in bad weather. Look for heavy thickets too.Since it is very cold right now in your area protection from the dominant winds during the day is a must.This includes a steep walled hollow or one with a quick elevation drop that keeps the wind out.The easiest way to recognize these core areas is by the tracks both coming and going in the same fields and trails.
With eleven inches or more of snow on the ground don't count out the frozen carcasses. They have'nt forgotten them either.Check them regularly while this snow is on.This may be the only food they can find. Mice are deep under the snow and it's almost impossible for a canine to scent a rabbit on top of it unless they get directly down wind fo the prey.These carcasses are also the better place for the use of the howler if they are working them. Better off with two hunters placing one at least a hundred yards down wind. Jimmie
With eleven inches or more of snow on the ground don't count out the frozen carcasses. They have'nt forgotten them either.Check them regularly while this snow is on.This may be the only food they can find. Mice are deep under the snow and it's almost impossible for a canine to scent a rabbit on top of it unless they get directly down wind fo the prey.These carcasses are also the better place for the use of the howler if they are working them. Better off with two hunters placing one at least a hundred yards down wind. Jimmie
pa. yote hunting is different to say the least and very challenging. with such a low success rate a weak minded hunted would have gone insane along time ago.
i live in northwestern pa. and it is mostly the mountainous range of the alleghenies. the longest shot i have had at a coyote is 52 yards. no need for a high power rifle here where i hunt so a shotgun is my weapon of choice.
i'm gonna venture out on a limb here and say that we pa. hunters call in more coyotes than we see. the cover is so close that a coyote could easily sneak within 50 yards and never be seen. again talking about my hunting area(cover, terrain, and wind swirl). and as for wind swirl, forget trying to hunt the wind for any direction. one minute it's predominately north, next east, then west, then south.....you can't win.
calling stands for me are only about 500-1000 yards apart. the thick hemlock and mountain laurel hillsides soak up your calling that if you get one to come in they were close to begin with. which leads me to another point that most of us probably spook them before we even get started.
as for calls i like, i use a JS 512 and have every tape imaginable and the only two that have had any success at all are "pup distress"(fox or coyote) and "luring lips". the lip squeeks works great here.
i see no need to compare my resume with the rest of the hunters here, seems to start fueds so i'll say this: i am new to this forum and will give only advise from my hunting experiences and not on a whim. if i haven't tried it, i won't comment on it until i have. i joined this to become a more informed hunter and there is a lot of great info here, just hope i can keep up.....thanks
jbjackson
i live in northwestern pa. and it is mostly the mountainous range of the alleghenies. the longest shot i have had at a coyote is 52 yards. no need for a high power rifle here where i hunt so a shotgun is my weapon of choice.
i'm gonna venture out on a limb here and say that we pa. hunters call in more coyotes than we see. the cover is so close that a coyote could easily sneak within 50 yards and never be seen. again talking about my hunting area(cover, terrain, and wind swirl). and as for wind swirl, forget trying to hunt the wind for any direction. one minute it's predominately north, next east, then west, then south.....you can't win.
calling stands for me are only about 500-1000 yards apart. the thick hemlock and mountain laurel hillsides soak up your calling that if you get one to come in they were close to begin with. which leads me to another point that most of us probably spook them before we even get started.
as for calls i like, i use a JS 512 and have every tape imaginable and the only two that have had any success at all are "pup distress"(fox or coyote) and "luring lips". the lip squeeks works great here.
i see no need to compare my resume with the rest of the hunters here, seems to start fueds so i'll say this: i am new to this forum and will give only advise from my hunting experiences and not on a whim. if i haven't tried it, i won't comment on it until i have. i joined this to become a more informed hunter and there is a lot of great info here, just hope i can keep up.....thanks
jbjackson
Rich Cronk
New member
Hodgen,
When I was fresh out of highschool, I used to love those dances over in Neola. There was this real ugly guy there who I just couldn't get along with,so we went outside and fought it out. We be best friends from then on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Anyway, I'm glad to see that we are finally talking this thing through. I don't know how to put a wav file on this board. Maybe someone can teach me. I am an old dog that can still learn a new trick or two.
When I was fresh out of highschool, I used to love those dances over in Neola. There was this real ugly guy there who I just couldn't get along with,so we went outside and fought it out. We be best friends from then on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Anyway, I'm glad to see that we are finally talking this thing through. I don't know how to put a wav file on this board. Maybe someone can teach me. I am an old dog that can still learn a new trick or two.
Rich,
It beats me how to add wave files...LOL.
I am about as computer illiterate as they come.
I got excited when I learned how to attach a pic to e-mail.
But atleast the "chi" on this thread is beginning to flow. I think some folks on both ends will get a few ideas.
I think we'll have another round on a different thread though. (Advice) I hold a coyote in pretty high reguard.
JB,
It's funny you mentioned "luring lips".
I was playing around on the JS website a while back, and clicked on that very wave file. My black lab went bullistic. He knocked my speaker on the floor and was shoving it all around the place. I don't quite know what a coyote makes of that sound, but it sure has an effect on a domestic canine. It was on my list to try, but this year has been a train wreck with work, and I just havn't had time.
I am sure we don't see alot of the coyotes we call. The terrain here in PA is so varied, coyotes act differently even within this state.
Locally we have these big, funky looking,long legged, lanky things. A buddy at work brought in a pic of one they took last week. Drop me an e-mail at hodgen4831@yahoo.com and I'll forward it to you.
I would be interested to get your take on how it compares to coyotes in your area. My best guess here in the northeast, is they are migrating down from the Adirondaks of NY.
It beats me how to add wave files...LOL.
I am about as computer illiterate as they come.
I got excited when I learned how to attach a pic to e-mail.
But atleast the "chi" on this thread is beginning to flow. I think some folks on both ends will get a few ideas.
I think we'll have another round on a different thread though. (Advice) I hold a coyote in pretty high reguard.
JB,
It's funny you mentioned "luring lips".
I was playing around on the JS website a while back, and clicked on that very wave file. My black lab went bullistic. He knocked my speaker on the floor and was shoving it all around the place. I don't quite know what a coyote makes of that sound, but it sure has an effect on a domestic canine. It was on my list to try, but this year has been a train wreck with work, and I just havn't had time.
I am sure we don't see alot of the coyotes we call. The terrain here in PA is so varied, coyotes act differently even within this state.
Locally we have these big, funky looking,long legged, lanky things. A buddy at work brought in a pic of one they took last week. Drop me an e-mail at hodgen4831@yahoo.com and I'll forward it to you.
I would be interested to get your take on how it compares to coyotes in your area. My best guess here in the northeast, is they are migrating down from the Adirondaks of NY.
hodgen i sent you an email and hope you got it. i am not very good with this comraption they call a computer. think i am having email problems so i sent it twice. you or anyone else can reach me at jbjackson@ccybernet.com or bowhuntingking@yahoo.com
thanks for the invite/reply and hope to see that pic and talk to ya soon.
thanks for the invite/reply and hope to see that pic and talk to ya soon.
PA.Tracker
New member
Now your talking!
Good info Jimmie
I beleive the terrain is a big part of my problem. The places I hunt that hold coyotes is all woods, no fields. I do 95% of my calling on logging roads,powerlines,snowmobile/atv trails,around clearcuts and swamps. This is about 35 miles north of my house. The other 5% is around the house, on some of the farms I fox hunt and because of the big range of our coyotes, and the size of the average farm around me is about 100 acers, its hit or miss. I also belive we call in more than we know, because of the terrain.
Hodgen,
I you want I can post your pic's here for you.
sparrow221@msn.com
Good info Jimmie
I beleive the terrain is a big part of my problem. The places I hunt that hold coyotes is all woods, no fields. I do 95% of my calling on logging roads,powerlines,snowmobile/atv trails,around clearcuts and swamps. This is about 35 miles north of my house. The other 5% is around the house, on some of the farms I fox hunt and because of the big range of our coyotes, and the size of the average farm around me is about 100 acers, its hit or miss. I also belive we call in more than we know, because of the terrain.
Hodgen,
I you want I can post your pic's here for you.
sparrow221@msn.com
GC
Well-known member
Speaking of those "luring lips" one time in college.... Oops! Wrong forum. 
Seriously, as an example of how effective lip squeaks can be, I'll offer a story (you knew that was coming didn't ya!). Last year during Missouri's firearms deer season on opening day I was sitting on a stand watching a long saddle with a knoll about 100 yards away. The knoll dropped off into a deep brushy hollow. A good buck was running the saddle and I hoped to intercept him there.
About 3:00 in the afternoon a couple of grey squirrels on the knoll began running for a huge oak den tree. When I saw the movement and heard the squirrels begin chattering, I just knew that old buck was slipping along my way. Instead, a grey looking coyote trotted up to the den tree and watched the squirrels. I started lip squeaking at him and he broke off from watching the squirrels so fast it startled me. He literally ran right to me on a string. At thirty yards he checked up and I guess realized the orange lump sitting against the tree wasn't a rodent small enough for him to tackle. He drifted off into the side hollow, watching me over his shoulder. I hadn't moved a muscle once I had his attention.
The next day, a second yellow colored coyote moosied across the knoll below me at 9:00 A.M.. I repeated the lip squeak and got the same reaction from this coyote as well. Right to me.
Put this little trick in your bag of tactics, it's a little sumpin' sumpin' that can seal the deal for you without any give away motion. Or loud volume to blow a critter away and spook it. This is offered for whom ever may not know about this and may want to stow it in the trick bag.
Seriously, as an example of how effective lip squeaks can be, I'll offer a story (you knew that was coming didn't ya!). Last year during Missouri's firearms deer season on opening day I was sitting on a stand watching a long saddle with a knoll about 100 yards away. The knoll dropped off into a deep brushy hollow. A good buck was running the saddle and I hoped to intercept him there.
About 3:00 in the afternoon a couple of grey squirrels on the knoll began running for a huge oak den tree. When I saw the movement and heard the squirrels begin chattering, I just knew that old buck was slipping along my way. Instead, a grey looking coyote trotted up to the den tree and watched the squirrels. I started lip squeaking at him and he broke off from watching the squirrels so fast it startled me. He literally ran right to me on a string. At thirty yards he checked up and I guess realized the orange lump sitting against the tree wasn't a rodent small enough for him to tackle. He drifted off into the side hollow, watching me over his shoulder. I hadn't moved a muscle once I had his attention.
The next day, a second yellow colored coyote moosied across the knoll below me at 9:00 A.M.. I repeated the lip squeak and got the same reaction from this coyote as well. Right to me.
Put this little trick in your bag of tactics, it's a little sumpin' sumpin' that can seal the deal for you without any give away motion. Or loud volume to blow a critter away and spook it. This is offered for whom ever may not know about this and may want to stow it in the trick bag.
quarterbore
New member
Up until about 15years ago coyotes were not legal to shoot or hunt in Pa. In Central Pa if you said you saw a coyote, you may have well talked about the UFO it got off of and how it called you to the light. There have been rumors and only rumors that the Game Commision stocked (Or reintroduced them as they like to call it) them to control the deer herd. The problem is few numbers with heavy human population. General hunting packs State Huntinglands causing chance encounters, bringing all the nasty stuff that comes along with that. Your set could have been screwed by a squirrel hunter taking a dump and smoking a carton of smokes a few hours before you got there with out you knowing it. Brush piles that would hold a rabbit are reduced to toothpicks at the start of small game season. You cant call what cant hear you, if the coyote you intend to hunt has been run off before you get there, he wont be called in. My partner and I have had many close calls, it will happen. I belong to 2 sportsmens clubs, I cant find anyone who admitts to hunting coyotes, the guys I know who have killed them do so hunting other things and have one run into them, I dont think education via calling is a major problem. I firmly belive persistance and hard work will pay off. I would like to try some of our tactics in areas where 15-20 sets would produce as many dogs called in. I figured everyone else put in their 2 cents I would to.
PA.Tracker
New member
Was out scouting/calling this morning and came across these frozen deer, coyote tracks all around them, but they were not touched.
I have no idea why they were dumped there. The bigger one was a buck with the antlers broke off and it was dressed. The smaller was a doe I don't think that one was dressed out.
Anyway here are the pic's.
I have no idea why they were dumped there. The bigger one was a buck with the antlers broke off and it was dressed. The smaller was a doe I don't think that one was dressed out.
Anyway here are the pic's.
Tracker,
Those are some really great pics, showing exactly what we been saying. Normally after muzzleloader season finishes up, I begin to hunt pretty hard. I generally find about 10-15 carcasses in the woods with the same effect. Lots a coyote tracks, but the carcasses being untouched. But I hunt along the Blue Mtn close to home.
I know you were scouting for your upcoming PA Pred Assoc hunt. I am a little bit familier with the area. What people here should find TOTALLY amazing, is your in the middle of nowhere. There isn't an obvious alternative easy food source within 10 to 15 miles from there.
This would coincided with the stomach content study done by the PGC a few years back. The amount of deer matter found was a relatively small percentage of the over-all content. If I remember correctly, I think "vegetable matter" was highest, then rodent and bird, but deer was near the bottom of the list.
Those are some really great pics, showing exactly what we been saying. Normally after muzzleloader season finishes up, I begin to hunt pretty hard. I generally find about 10-15 carcasses in the woods with the same effect. Lots a coyote tracks, but the carcasses being untouched. But I hunt along the Blue Mtn close to home.
I know you were scouting for your upcoming PA Pred Assoc hunt. I am a little bit familier with the area. What people here should find TOTALLY amazing, is your in the middle of nowhere. There isn't an obvious alternative easy food source within 10 to 15 miles from there.
This would coincided with the stomach content study done by the PGC a few years back. The amount of deer matter found was a relatively small percentage of the over-all content. If I remember correctly, I think "vegetable matter" was highest, then rodent and bird, but deer was near the bottom of the list.
Jimmie in Ky
New member
Pitcher, I've been studying those pictures of yours.From what I can tell there were at least 3 animals that investigated those deer.It looks like from the photos they came in from across the road then exited going into the woods on that side.A single going off at an angle to the pair.Where those tracks headed off into a hollow or up a ridge?
And is there a clear cut or thicket you can see from that point?
And is there a clear cut or thicket you can see from that point?