2 Leupold's VX-2 or 1 and a mark Ar mod1

ShawneeB

ShawneeB

New member
I have a 243 Stevens 200 on the way, have a new VX-2 3-9x40 with CDS for it sitting next to me.

I also decided to put new glass on the Howa 1500 223. It will be another Leupold and 3-9x40 but which.

The new scope with CDS has a tag says "call in with my scopes SN for a free dial matched to my exact ballistics profile.", my choice 1 or 2 turn.

The Howa 223 is cut and threaded for my suppressor at 19.5" I mostly shoot the 55 gr Vmax, but have some 50gr to try since Howas a 1:12

Mk Ar is a 1/2 moa in the 3-9. VX-2 1/4moa in the 3-9
Mk Ar p5 mildot is $22 less dealer price than the VX2 duplex with CDS, both matte. ($22 doesn't matter.)

Get another VX and being exactly the same on both rifles, with CDS tailored to 243 and 223 is the way I'm leaning. However anything I am missing where I may like the MK Ar on the 223 instead? Is the MK AR(BDC) being set up for 223 any better or worse vs (CDS) custom dial set up for 223?
 
I have the original Mark AR 3x9x40 standard plex recticle on a bolt 223 and it works perfectly. 55 grain bullets at around 3100 fps is what it is set up for. It has been dead nuts on dialing out to 500 yds then back to zero. I like the half moa clicks and do not feel it is a factor at all after using the scope. It has been accurate on prairie dogs but would perfer 12x or more power for that use and gallon milk jugs out to 700 yards.

I highly recomend the Mark AR series.
 
Thanks Bowl. Is it better than the VX2 CDS for about the same money ($22)?

I had wondered what that 1/2 over the 1/4 moa would matter, good point. Love hearing it returns to zero,,, but hey it's a Leupy!

What makes the Mk Ar stand out over a VX2 that I would choose that? Going on a bolt but same size as a 20 AR however diff twist.

What features do you people like on the MK over the VX2? MK says BDC, VX is CDS, seem to do about the same thing. However with CDS, sounds you can get the calibrated dial for an exact load free.

We don't have any shooting over 300 yards unless I go to a LD range. 3-9 will suffice although I have considered just a bit higher but really don't need it for my app.
 
They are basically the same scope as far as I'm aware. I was going through the same choices for my .223, and actually ended up settling on a Leupold 2-7 instead. The reason being I can't readily shoot prairie dogs where I live, and the .223 doesn't have the punch for coyotes out past 300.

My thought process was if I can't get ethical kills past 300, I don't really need the magnification to shoot them past 300, and the .223 shoots pretty flat out to the same distance, so I don't need turrets or BDC either. Ranging accurately and shooting skill also becomes critical past that distance.

I really don't feel like I could range accurately on smaller animals with a mil-dot reticle, and it is also only accurate on max power, although at long distance you will probably be on max power. It just seems simpler and more practical on predators to be able to know whether they are inside or outside of 300 yards, and either hold dead on and take the shot, or pass.

You can get custom turrets for either scope, and they are both marked with specific BDC data and mils/moa, so you can easily make a cheat sheet for different rounds. I don't feel the 1/2 v 1/4 click turrets are a factor, as even being a yard off on your ranging introduces more error than not being able to dial in exactly what you want, and less clicks means you get to your compensation more quickly.

If longer range varmints are on the menu, than little of what I just said applies.
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Thanks Gator. Some very good points there. There's nothing over 300 yards open here where I hunt. Even the gas line, with so many hills it's mostly only 300 between them. No furthur than that here.

I will consider a 2-7 for sure. I was leaning a bit towards 2 identical scopes for simplicity but they aren't really all that complicated.

I don't need outside turrets and probably didn't need CDS for the one scope but it was time to order, had to pick and I did. It's a 243 and same distances apply for my hunting, easy enough to compensate and I can judge yardage. Probably could have gone 2-7 on both.
 
I think the CDS is definitely a good choice on a big game scope, as the larger calibers are able to take game at longer ranges. Same for small varmints. If a coyote won't come in past 450 yards its not a huge deal if you can't take the shot, but if it is the buck of a lifetime I'd be upset if I could have ranged and dialed him in.

I'm also similar to you that I like my hunting rifles on the same platform so the actions, triggers, scopes, etc are familiar. However I really don't see different scope powers being an issue, as most people do adjust them somewhat often. I can see the benefit to using a consistent power for range estimation, such as setting each scope to 4 or 6 power, and knowing if a coyote fills the reticle from the center to the duplex mark he is at X yards.

What sold me on the 2-7 is the extra FOV at close range and how compact it is, as my .223 is light and has a 20" barrel.
 
ShawneeB, sorry I have been busy with the blizzard up here.

I have heard the VXII's and the Mark AR's are the same scopes. I don't know this for a fact but that is what I heard. You would think the Mark AR's would hold up under recoil do to the way an AR cycles, that might be a plus.

If I could buy a Mark AR with a mildot vs a VXII with CDS I would chose the mildot for hold over purpose on quicker longer range shots. If you have your scope set up to shoot dead on at 200 yards and you have a 300 yard shot you probably wont get time to crank up the elevation but you could use the mildot like a BDC and hit your target. I don't think I could range a coyote with a mildot but I have used it for bullet drop and windage succesfully.

If you perfer the the standard recticle get the CDS and just put a little Kentucky windage in for those long shots on windy days.
 
Bowl. Quite alright, the weather has us all busy. Thank you for input and replies.

Gator came up with an idea on the 2-7 also. Not a bad one at all. The 223 Howa is actually OK with the package Nikko, better than I actually expected but I like Leups and a nicer scope would tickle me. Chucked the hogue for a Boyds lam strippling #1, has a can, deserves a Leup.

That's a for sure on not getting the time to adjust. Nothing hangs around long, too darn smart. Think my dealer had a few choices on the Mk Ar, TMR, Mil,,

I toss these scope ideas around over and over, justify one then another, then back. Least I am brand loyal/happy. Like the CDS I grabbed, probably have to toss a coin again! I've had many an AR I built, AR,less presently. Yet thinking on another and the MkAR could go on it if I didn't like it on the bolt and be a nice package. Can never have too many 223's.
 
Bowl, good point on speed of adjustments, determining a reticle can be almost as hard as picking the scope!

The problem with the mil dot or any other BDC reticle like the Long Range Duplex, as I understand it, is they are only accurate at one magnification level, typically max. The advantage to turrets is that they are the same regardless of what power you're on. So to use the mil dot or LRD for accurate elevation, you would have to turn your scope to max power, then find the right mark, whereas with the CDS or turret you just twist it and pull the trigger. However if you're sitting with your scope on 2 or 3 power, you probably have to turn it up anyway to take the shot.

I really don't know how far off the mil dots would be at 6 power as opposed to 9 power, it might be close enough to work. The bigger problem is figuring out if your target is at 320 yards or 360 yards, there is about a 10" difference in drop at that range, while from 200 to 300 yards there is only a 9" drop. That's the tricky bit about shooting small targets at long range without a range finder.
 
Sure was easier 40-45 years ago with a 222 and fixed power. Didn't have to think, just aim and shoot. Sure tallied up the chucks too.
 
ShawneeB I agree. It sure does seem it was alot easier. Too many choices now days. I have had the most success just putting a little hold over on my target (coyotes) and pulling the trigger. Like Gatorgrizz27 said when you dinking around trying to remember what power and what dot or line and how far you think the critter is you have oppertunity for mistakes. I've done that with a Boone & Crocket reticle set at 8 power and not at 14 last year.

I've been toying around with some ideas for my next coyote gun/scope combo and I keep going back to the KISS theory of keep it simple stupid.
 
Yes it was. And being a 222 you could see the hits even in a 4x. Shot a chuck 200 yards out a kitchen door in driving rain, looked like I blew every bit of water off it.

I did consider a fixed SWFA also on the 223, 6x.

Honestly most my variable scopes I have are left low and never remember or have a chance to turn it up like you could actually do on a chuck. Don't think I ever used the mildot in any mildot scope I have either! Interesting on the mildot working best higher power, didn't even know that.

Now I am more confused that just the 2 Leups
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ShawneeB, what you said on the mildot working best on higher power. It depends on the scope. If it is first or second focal plan. If it is in the second focal plan the distance between the mildots change as you change the power. The scope will have a power where the mildots are at 3.6 moa between each mildot. The point where a Nikon buckmaster 4.5 x 14 is 3.5 moa is at 12 power so if you know your bullet drop you can change the power range to componsate the bullet drop. Example would be if your bullet drops 36" @ 500 yards then the second mildot below the crosshairs is 7.2 moa on 12 power x 5 (for 500yds) = 36". or say at 400 yards it drops 16.8" so the 1st mildot = 3.6 x 4 = 14.4" so if you hold on the target with the first mildot you would be 2.4" low at point of impact. Now when you change the power the 3.6 will change to a higher or lower number for your formual. It may be something like 3.2 moa for 14 power. Nikon used to show the moa for differant power settings and then you could make a drop table for your scope from that.

You can do the same thing with a standard plex reticle by knowing what the distance is between the crosshairs and stadia, point below the cross hairs where the line gets wider. Some scope manufactures list this. Leupold puts marks on the the dial for using this for ranging and shooting.

I know, too much information, but if you are doing long range work and have time to figure your distance and scope reference point of aim it does work.

Or if like me, make your best SWAG and hold there then let it fly. Now as simple as it sound to just hold over and pull the trigger your success ratio will be alot better if you have fewer variables to effect the shot. i.e. fast, flat shooting caliber sighted for the best point blank range for the target you are shooting. I would say most calibers you would use like the 223 you can sight in around 1" to 1.5" high and be dead on fur out to 200yds plus then at 300 put the cross hair just on or slightly above the back and be dead on. The faster, flater, and harder hitting the caliber is going to give you a slight edge on a misread and a little better chance to connect.

Alot of typing here but back to simple and my set up would be to have a CDS scope (Mark AR included) where you know your dialing points for 350/400 yds out are, have it sighted in where it is dead on somewhere around 200/250 and slight hold over to 300 and anything farther I would dial up on if I had the time and thought I could successfully make the shot, other wise hold off for another day or chance.
 
Thank you Much Bowlseye for explaining that. I had no idea it was even different between powers, 1st or 2nd focal plane. That's some trick stuff. Makes sense now that you explained it but it can be a bit confusing trying to figure. Are you using a Nikon program for that Buckmaster?

I have always just did a hold over, sighted 100, know my loads drop at 200 and 300 Worked for chucks.

I am anxious to use that 3-9 with CDS but the 243 is on a slow boat, packet ship from MT or something. I can go up Mammoth cave to the long ranges and see what that's capable of, I'd like to. Once I mount and try that one I am sure my decision will be easier and I can get the 223 scope ordered up. I'm still right on the edge between the VX2 and the Mark Ar. Bet I'll like either.
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ShawneeB I am sure you'll be happy with either or both. One thing about it once you zero at 100 you can put a small piece of tape around your elevation knob and put marks where say 200, 300, 400 and so on are on either scope. Then if you change the scope on to dfferent a different rifle or change the amo all you have to do is put on new tape and remark. My Mark AR was dead on once zeroed at 100yds with the 24" barreled bolt action that I have it mounted on and my 55 grain v-max over H322 so I did not have to do anything on it.

A guy asked me a few years ago why I had my rifle sighted at 100 yds. I explained how my scopes were either set up with hold over points or could dial the elevation. Well after I got thinking about what he said and the light finally went on in my head and started sighting in at 200yds or a little more which equals on most riles 1" to 1.5". If you hunting coyotes the advice I can give you is to do that. Your CDS will be on say the 200 yard mark for your base set up and I do not see you ever needing to dial down.

Let us know how the range work goes.
 
Thanks Bowlseye. That's a slick idea with the tape. I have always sighted 100 yards but I also am going to do 200 on the 243. Seems handier than hold over at 200 and 300, only have to hold over some at 300 and pretty darn close at 100.

The BBT came today and I was all excited and ready to mount the Vx2 with CDS on the 243. Hmmm, logging it my bound book I happened to notice 30-06 not 243 on the barrel. A call to the other dealer to ship me the correct rifle, the 243,, and I said, OH HECK, I'll keep the 06 too
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Both Stevens 200's NIB. So now I will have to scope it! Unless I turn it over, or stick a 6.5 Swede barrel on. Darn, that would be just terrible to have to do that.

I'll keep an update on the range work. Got dies, couple hundred Bergers, Vmax. I'll be busy.
 
Cool. I have been happy with mine. It has the caps that cover the turrets and I like that. You can always leave it off but it protects the settings when your hauling your stuff around.
 
If I got caps, they are always on except adjusting, that's a good thing
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Ordered from my distributor this morning so I'll have Thurs latest. Really looking forward to this scope. Rifle has a new stock, ordering up some pillars and bedding and this one will be complete cept for the paper punching. Thanks for the input and help on this one.
 
I'm interested in this scope as well. I ordered the 3-9x40 MarkAR Mod 1 with Firedot TMR reticle and a leupold AR mount. I'm hoping I'll like it. It'll be 8 weeks before I get it.
 
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