200 yard group size, what do you consider good?
- Thread starter DiRTY DOG
- Start date
varminter .223
Well-known member
My theory is I would rather shoot a couple hundred through a varmint rifle developing a good load and getting to know what the rifle likes as far as how often to clean etc and being confident with it for the rest of that barrels life than throwing a few rounds down it to sight it in and callit good if its basiclly 1moa and always wondering what I might be leaving on the table. Not to mention shooting is the fun part. Most people would never wear a barrel out either way.
Originally Posted By: varminter .223My theory is I would rather shoot a couple hundred through a varmint rifle developing a good load and getting to know what the rifle likes as far as how often to clean etc and being confident with it for the rest of that barrels life than throwing a few rounds down it to sight it in and callit good if its basiclly 1moa and always wondering what I might be leaving on the table. Not to mention shooting is the fun part. Most people would never wear a barrel out either way.
That's a good idea. Remember though that that load will not be the load for the entire life of that barrel in most cases close but not exact. AS the throat moves and erosion sets in it is going to change. The DCM boys throat their barrels short as they can for XXX slow fire bullet and will then chase the lands as it wear. The same can go for your varmint rifles. Shoot 'em much and they do change.
Also certain chamberings need to be approached with caution. Burn a couple hundred rounds down a 22-243,20-250 or a 25 WSSM and you have eaten up maybe as much as 25% of the barrel life. On those I want a screaming load quick and I hope to do it in 50 rounds or less.
Greg
That's a good idea. Remember though that that load will not be the load for the entire life of that barrel in most cases close but not exact. AS the throat moves and erosion sets in it is going to change. The DCM boys throat their barrels short as they can for XXX slow fire bullet and will then chase the lands as it wear. The same can go for your varmint rifles. Shoot 'em much and they do change.
Also certain chamberings need to be approached with caution. Burn a couple hundred rounds down a 22-243,20-250 or a 25 WSSM and you have eaten up maybe as much as 25% of the barrel life. On those I want a screaming load quick and I hope to do it in 50 rounds or less.
Greg
varminter .223
Well-known member
I dont run anything much over 3600. I have about 275 through my swift and the throat measures to the thou the day it did new. At least as close as I can measure with hornadys guage. I ran 225 through before I decided to bed it. Savages and AR's are the berries, just thread a new tube on
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: varminter .223I dont run anything much over 3600. I have about 275 through my swift and the throat measures to the thou the day it did new. At least as close as I can measure with hornadys guage. I ran 225 through before I decided to bed it. Savages and AR's are the berries, just thread a new tube on
Throttle back and they all live longer. I use to drive a 1961 Corvette and a 1975 Pinto. They both got me to work. Guess which one I took to the races.
Greg
Throttle back and they all live longer. I use to drive a 1961 Corvette and a 1975 Pinto. They both got me to work. Guess which one I took to the races.
Greg
varminter .223
Well-known member
Now cars are a different story. In my bit younger and dumber drag days I ran an alcohol injected dragster. Always full throttle there
Last edited:
Nope. Barrels are consumables. Run 'em hard and enjoy 'em. I have a flavor for anything I shoot and I want them running with everything I can get. I shoot little pip squeak rounds and big boomers. I trade some brass life for top pressures but I'm not going to shoot a 4,000 fps capable rifle at 3,600 for a couple hundred extra rounds of tube life when it comes to varmints or anything else. As long as the accuracy is there I'm not leaving squat in the powder can.
Rotate three close to identical rifles in the same chambers and it'll take a long time to wear one out on little critters. My big days are maybe 200 rounds on PD's. Rotated through three rifles I'll be dust on the mountain by the time they need retired and they are running balls to the wall.
Greg
Rotate three close to identical rifles in the same chambers and it'll take a long time to wear one out on little critters. My big days are maybe 200 rounds on PD's. Rotated through three rifles I'll be dust on the mountain by the time they need retired and they are running balls to the wall.
Greg
varminter .223
Well-known member
I run just about everything that I actually hunt with book max or some a grain over but I never seem to get these blazing speeds. Only thing to shoot around here with a ceterfire rifle is coyotes.....I guarrantee if I dont shoot some paper I am not gonna get much shooting in
After I get that initial load work done a new rifle shows up and the viscious cycle never ends.
After I get that initial load work done a new rifle shows up and the viscious cycle never ends.
Last edited:
varminter .223
Well-known member
I should add that I have only owned 1 aftermarket barrel in my life besides that worthless stoner 22 nosler. Most of mine are 700's and some savages and a few other brands. I think some of these factory tubes need some shooting before they peak.
Last edited:
reddog964
New member
Originally Posted By: GLShooterNope. Barrels are consumables. Run 'em hard and enjoy 'em. I have a flavor for anything I shoot and I want them running with everything I can get. I shoot little pip squeak rounds and big boomers. I trade some brass life for top pressures but I'm not going to shoot a 4,000 fps capable rifle at 3,600 for a couple hundred extra rounds of tube life when it comes to varmints or anything else. As long as the accuracy is there I'm not leaving squat in the powder can.
Greg
The same way i play the game
Don't think they will ever stop making barrels or the means to screw them on...lol
Greg
The same way i play the game
Originally Posted By: reddog964Originally Posted By: GLShooterNope. Barrels are consumables. Run 'em hard and enjoy 'em. I have a flavor for anything I shoot and I want them running with everything I can get. I shoot little pip squeak rounds and big boomers. I trade some brass life for top pressures but I'm not going to shoot a 4,000 fps capable rifle at 3,600 for a couple hundred extra rounds of tube life when it comes to varmints or anything else. As long as the accuracy is there I'm not leaving squat in the powder can.
Greg
The same way i play the game
Don't think they will ever stop making barrels or the means to screw them on...lol
Yep. Like a third grader with five gallons of gas and a book of matches. I'm gonna burn something.
Greg
Greg
The same way i play the game
Yep. Like a third grader with five gallons of gas and a book of matches. I'm gonna burn something.
Greg
Coyotehunter_
New member
While trigger control is very important you are assuming that everyone has perfect eye sight. That's an assumption that I can't do as my eye sight is less than perfect. So for me the number one thing is good eye sight first and foremost. Then comes trigger control and the other things you mentioned.
I use to shoot a lot better before my eye sight went bad. Now I'm lucky to hit the target. You see the equipment we use to shoot with is very important. My AR15 is very capable of shooting 1 MOA groups. Notice I didn't give a yardage here. If you understand what Minute of Angle really means you don't need to know the yardage one is shooting at as it won't matter. It's an angular measurement that I'm talking about here. So the diameter of the group will vary with the distance. Anyway.
My EOTech EXPS3-4 has a column of four 1 MOA sized red dots. But I have an slight astigmatism still even after an eye operation to fix this problem. So somethings I see two columns of red dots instead of just one column of red dots. So if I don't chose the proper column of red dots to aim with I can be off the bulls eye buy a lot more than I want. If I blink a few times and get the gunk out of my Right eye then the two columns turn back into one column and I'm hitting the bulls eye again. But if the weather get's too hot or cold my zero shifts on the EOTech system and I'm off target again until I re-zero the sight for the temperature that I'm shooting at now.
Tomorrow is the last day that you can op in for the class action law suit again L3 the makers of EOTech.
BTW: I shoot either a Remington Model 660 in 222 cal with a Burris Full Field II scope or a Daniel Defense Ambush Firearms 5.56 AR15 with the EOTech HS1 system or a Nikon Scope on it. It shoots really good with the Nikon Scope.
Remember that a 1 MOA sized Red Dot in the EOTech EXPS 3-4 HWS will cover about 2" diameter circle at 200 yards. That's the same size as the bulls eye on the Shoot N C targets that I use. They are the 17.25" Shoot NC targets that I use when shooting at the 200 yard range.
Many forget that one's eye sight in the most important aspect in shooting. If you can't see what you are shooting at you are not going to be a very good shot. Most people take eye sight for granted until you start to get older. But even young people can develop eye problems.
Originally Posted By: Texas SwiftyMyself, if varmint rifles won't shoot 1" or less 3 shot groups with careful handloads at 200 yards, they have to find a new home.
IMO, two of the most important things in shooting small groups is learning shooter control & a really good trigger. Without either I don't think you will be able to consistently shoot good groups.
Again IMO, if you've got a rifle with a good trigger, good shooter control, & good tried & proven hand loads with good bullets like Berger, it should stay an inch or under preferably .750 at 200 yards.
Good luck to you.
Jim D
I use to shoot a lot better before my eye sight went bad. Now I'm lucky to hit the target. You see the equipment we use to shoot with is very important. My AR15 is very capable of shooting 1 MOA groups. Notice I didn't give a yardage here. If you understand what Minute of Angle really means you don't need to know the yardage one is shooting at as it won't matter. It's an angular measurement that I'm talking about here. So the diameter of the group will vary with the distance. Anyway.
My EOTech EXPS3-4 has a column of four 1 MOA sized red dots. But I have an slight astigmatism still even after an eye operation to fix this problem. So somethings I see two columns of red dots instead of just one column of red dots. So if I don't chose the proper column of red dots to aim with I can be off the bulls eye buy a lot more than I want. If I blink a few times and get the gunk out of my Right eye then the two columns turn back into one column and I'm hitting the bulls eye again. But if the weather get's too hot or cold my zero shifts on the EOTech system and I'm off target again until I re-zero the sight for the temperature that I'm shooting at now.
Tomorrow is the last day that you can op in for the class action law suit again L3 the makers of EOTech.
BTW: I shoot either a Remington Model 660 in 222 cal with a Burris Full Field II scope or a Daniel Defense Ambush Firearms 5.56 AR15 with the EOTech HS1 system or a Nikon Scope on it. It shoots really good with the Nikon Scope.
Remember that a 1 MOA sized Red Dot in the EOTech EXPS 3-4 HWS will cover about 2" diameter circle at 200 yards. That's the same size as the bulls eye on the Shoot N C targets that I use. They are the 17.25" Shoot NC targets that I use when shooting at the 200 yard range.
Many forget that one's eye sight in the most important aspect in shooting. If you can't see what you are shooting at you are not going to be a very good shot. Most people take eye sight for granted until you start to get older. But even young people can develop eye problems.
Originally Posted By: Texas SwiftyMyself, if varmint rifles won't shoot 1" or less 3 shot groups with careful handloads at 200 yards, they have to find a new home.
IMO, two of the most important things in shooting small groups is learning shooter control & a really good trigger. Without either I don't think you will be able to consistently shoot good groups.
Again IMO, if you've got a rifle with a good trigger, good shooter control, & good tried & proven hand loads with good bullets like Berger, it should stay an inch or under preferably .750 at 200 yards.
Good luck to you.
Jim D
varminter .223
Well-known member
I agree with the eye sight being key. I have always had eagle eyes. I am starting to question it as of late though. I had a conversation with a customer about his seemingly going bad over night. Could just be in my head but my wife says its from being on this phone too much
