.223 cal.AR Type vs. Bolt Type rifles for Varmint
- Thread starter BTurner
- Start date
coyote6974
New member
Welcome to the board there BTurner,
I'm no expert so what I have to say here is strictly IMHO.
The obvious advantage to an AR type rifle is the semi auto action. It offers quick follow up shots and has a large ammo capacity. One of the not so obvious advantages is that you can configure your rifle in about any way you wish. You can use whatever sighting system, or barrel type you wish, or whatever style of stock you wish.
I'd say the biggest drawback to an AR type rifle, from a predator hunters perspective, is weight. Once you get all the needed accessories installed they get rather heavy.
Now as for what advantage there is to a bolt action rifle I'd have to say weight and accuracy is their main advantage when compared to an AR type rifle, or any other semi auto rifle for that matter.
Good hunting y'all..Coyote 6974
I'm no expert so what I have to say here is strictly IMHO.
The obvious advantage to an AR type rifle is the semi auto action. It offers quick follow up shots and has a large ammo capacity. One of the not so obvious advantages is that you can configure your rifle in about any way you wish. You can use whatever sighting system, or barrel type you wish, or whatever style of stock you wish.
I'd say the biggest drawback to an AR type rifle, from a predator hunters perspective, is weight. Once you get all the needed accessories installed they get rather heavy.
Now as for what advantage there is to a bolt action rifle I'd have to say weight and accuracy is their main advantage when compared to an AR type rifle, or any other semi auto rifle for that matter.
Good hunting y'all..Coyote 6974
You really need one of each. Such comparisons may take a lifetime of shooting to determine, scientifically, which you prefer.
I'll take the AR, because the one I bult is extremely accurate. The accuracy issue is pretty much a dead heat. One can find .3 MOA rifles, and 3.5 MOA rifles in both types. Heavy and not so heavy in both types. Smooth function and jam-o-matic in both types.
I think it boils down to what YOU prefer. I've got gorgeous wood on my shotguns and my .45, but that Evil Black Rifle is a sexy thang. And it will shoot the nads off a gnat.
I'll take the AR, because the one I bult is extremely accurate. The accuracy issue is pretty much a dead heat. One can find .3 MOA rifles, and 3.5 MOA rifles in both types. Heavy and not so heavy in both types. Smooth function and jam-o-matic in both types.
I think it boils down to what YOU prefer. I've got gorgeous wood on my shotguns and my .45, but that Evil Black Rifle is a sexy thang. And it will shoot the nads off a gnat.
Bonus
New member
Hello,
Quote:
Now as for what advantage there is to a bolt action rifle I'd have to say weight and accuracy is their main advantage when compared to an AR type rifle, or any other semi auto rifle for that matter.
The AR platform with a good factory barrel is going to keep up with any stock bolt rifle or exceed them as far as accuracy goes. The weight thing is negligable in a heavy barreled varmint rig. My AR is around 9 lbs with the heavy barrel, a laminate stock on a bolt gun with a heavy barrel is going to be about the same. Thin barrels with synthetic stocks on a bolt gun are going to be lighter than say a thin barreled AR, it all depends on several factors.
A bolt gun will cost alot less also.
I'm sure there will be more posts on this from both sides.
JA in SD
edit to add the cost thing and clean up quote coding
Quote:
Now as for what advantage there is to a bolt action rifle I'd have to say weight and accuracy is their main advantage when compared to an AR type rifle, or any other semi auto rifle for that matter.
The AR platform with a good factory barrel is going to keep up with any stock bolt rifle or exceed them as far as accuracy goes. The weight thing is negligable in a heavy barreled varmint rig. My AR is around 9 lbs with the heavy barrel, a laminate stock on a bolt gun with a heavy barrel is going to be about the same. Thin barrels with synthetic stocks on a bolt gun are going to be lighter than say a thin barreled AR, it all depends on several factors.
A bolt gun will cost alot less also.
I'm sure there will be more posts on this from both sides.
JA in SD
edit to add the cost thing and clean up quote coding
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coyote6974
New member
As I said in my post above... IMHO ... There's always the this and that factor.. By the way..A quality bolt rifle is USUALLY going to cost a little less money..
Good hunting y'all..Coyote 6974
Good hunting y'all..Coyote 6974
The black rifle disease should be avoided at all cost! They will multiply all by themselves but the young are so cute you can't sell them then they too will multiply and it will take all your money to feed them.
Buy a bolt rifle and save your money for bills and groceries.
Seriously, it's kind of like asking what's your favorite color. I used the excuse of fast follow up shots but have never needed one, the weight issue is a moot point, both can be had with detachable magazines and both can be very accurate.
I do like the pistol grip and the handling characteristics of an AR but either one will work fine just take your pick. I have heard that some people freak out when you bring a "machine gun" out of the truck but I've never had any second looks.
Buy a bolt rifle and save your money for bills and groceries.
Seriously, it's kind of like asking what's your favorite color. I used the excuse of fast follow up shots but have never needed one, the weight issue is a moot point, both can be had with detachable magazines and both can be very accurate.
I do like the pistol grip and the handling characteristics of an AR but either one will work fine just take your pick. I have heard that some people freak out when you bring a "machine gun" out of the truck but I've never had any second looks.
Hi BTurner,
I just bought my first 223 Rem in May. I got a Tikka T3 Lite, bolt action. It weighs in at just a little over 6 pounds.
As nice as the bolt action rifle is, (and I would certainly recommend it), I intend to get an AR next. I'm absolutely impressed with the 223 Rem cartridge. It seems good out to several hundred yards, which is as far as my local shots will be offered, so it's all I'll need as far as range is concerned.
One nice thing that I'm finding out about the 223 is that I can reload using one of the very explosive bullets and 2400 powder to make a lower muzzleblast round. I'm getting MOA at 100 yards. I hunt in a couple of local areas where the local ladies are within "ear-shot" of my shooting, and it's nice to be quiet enough not to alarm them unduly.
I suspect that a downloaded round in an AR might cause cycling problems?
Regards to all,
Jerry.
I just bought my first 223 Rem in May. I got a Tikka T3 Lite, bolt action. It weighs in at just a little over 6 pounds.
As nice as the bolt action rifle is, (and I would certainly recommend it), I intend to get an AR next. I'm absolutely impressed with the 223 Rem cartridge. It seems good out to several hundred yards, which is as far as my local shots will be offered, so it's all I'll need as far as range is concerned.
One nice thing that I'm finding out about the 223 is that I can reload using one of the very explosive bullets and 2400 powder to make a lower muzzleblast round. I'm getting MOA at 100 yards. I hunt in a couple of local areas where the local ladies are within "ear-shot" of my shooting, and it's nice to be quiet enough not to alarm them unduly.
I suspect that a downloaded round in an AR might cause cycling problems?
Regards to all,
Jerry.
Squeeze
New member
I have both. A couple of AR's, one varminter, and one
carbine, and I have a Tikka T-3 blued/syn, in .223 Rem.
The AR-15 Varminter, and the Tikka, are virtually a dead
heat in accuracy. Both will shoot .3 MOA, with their favorite
loads.
Weight wise, yes the Tikka is light, but the AR-15 carbine,
is pretty light, too. The difference here is the Tikka shoots
well into the sub MOA range, but the AR-15 carbine just
gets there with a .9 MOA average.
And yes, if you want to shoot reduced loads, like Blue Dot
charged loads, the AR-15 will not cycle these.
I am an AR-15 addict. But I am pretty fond of that Tikka T-3,
too. I would hate to have to be limited to just one .223,
and have to choose between an AR-15, and a bolt gun.
If I was forced to choose, it would be the AR-15.
Squeeze
carbine, and I have a Tikka T-3 blued/syn, in .223 Rem.
The AR-15 Varminter, and the Tikka, are virtually a dead
heat in accuracy. Both will shoot .3 MOA, with their favorite
loads.
Weight wise, yes the Tikka is light, but the AR-15 carbine,
is pretty light, too. The difference here is the Tikka shoots
well into the sub MOA range, but the AR-15 carbine just
gets there with a .9 MOA average.
And yes, if you want to shoot reduced loads, like Blue Dot
charged loads, the AR-15 will not cycle these.
I am an AR-15 addict. But I am pretty fond of that Tikka T-3,
too. I would hate to have to be limited to just one .223,
and have to choose between an AR-15, and a bolt gun.
If I was forced to choose, it would be the AR-15.
Squeeze
BroncoGlenn
New member
The biggest problem I've come to find with the AR/M16 platform is when they sit in the sun for a while or just in hot air for a spell it's damn near impossible to hold them without gloves. Wood stocks are a bit more resistant to heat soaking than the plastic furniture the ARs have. Something you may want to take that into consideration if you plan to spend a lot of time shooting during warm summer months.
Although in a varmit rig I suppose you could just wrap the AR stocks with a towel and be done with it.
Although in a varmit rig I suppose you could just wrap the AR stocks with a towel and be done with it.
imbuckshot
New member
and of course, at least for those of us in PA, the AR's are illegal to hunt with... do like the .223 though
Bob Addy
New member
I tried the AR thing a few times, had 3. Killed a few yotes and critters with them too. Just too bulky, noisy and heavy for me. A good shooter can make a follow up shot about as quick with a bolt gun so I didn't gain anything there. Seldom need a follow up anyway unles 2-3 yotes are coming in. I've had my fair share of triples with Purp and the 22/6mm not to mention the doubles. But, again, to everyone his own liking.I hate chasing brass anyway.
NM Leon
New member
I pick up brass so as not to be a litterbug.
As far as follow up shots:
"The only thing wrong with gas guns is how long you have to wait for the bolt to cycle." G. David Tubb
I'm not a big fan of semi autos but I do have an AR. No collection is complete without one (and an M1). On the other hand no collection is complete until you die regardless.
As far as follow up shots:
"The only thing wrong with gas guns is how long you have to wait for the bolt to cycle." G. David Tubb
I'm not a big fan of semi autos but I do have an AR. No collection is complete without one (and an M1). On the other hand no collection is complete until you die regardless.
Colorado Pete
New member
UPjeeper, if you want to hit prairie poodles in the 300-400 yard range with a .223 AR, best results will come if you use a more varmint-type barrel (longer) in the 22-26" range, with a faster twist to shoot the heavier bullets, which buck wind better. The barrel need not be heavy, but that would certainly help in holding steady and soaking up the heat from any "ranging shots" (misses) you might make before you hit (trust me, you WILL be making "ranging shots" at that range!).
Now before anybody jumps in and says they've killed hundreds of sod poodles with a 14" twist 16" barrel and 55-grain pills (which will certainly work), I said 'best results'! Longer barrels get a little more velocity out of the round, and heavier bullets buck the wind better.
My prairie-dog shooting partner has an AR with a stainless fluted 1-8" twist 26" barrel made by Mark Chanlyn. He shoots the 60-gr. Vmax (which only needs a 1-12" twist in a .223) and I have observed many of his hits out to a laser-ranged quarter mile. That distance is pushing it a bit for those lighter bullets out here in windy Colorado though.
Go with the longer heavier barrel and an 8" twist and you'll be able to shoot bullets up to the 80-grain Sierra Matchking or 75-grain Hornady A-Max for long windy shots, yet still be able to shoot the 55's or 60's if you like. The 60, in the V-Max (Hornady) or hollowpoint (Hornady and Sierra) is a darn good all-around weight for shooting out to 400 if the wind isn't too horrible. I've ruined many a rat's day with the 60 V-Max. Now if only I could convince Steve Hornady to make a 70-grain boattail V-Max or A-Max, that would be perfect for me (I've tried, and he won't...yet).
Oh by the way...on the original topic, it seems mostly a matter of taste. AR's are more pricey but more versatile, and generally heavier. Bolt guns are trimmer and can be had very light indeed (Rem. Model 7, Browning A-Bolt Micro).
Handling qualities are very different. Me, I hate the way an AR feels, and love a trim light bolt gun. But, it's hard to beat the efficiency, accuracy, and versatility of the AR.
Now before anybody jumps in and says they've killed hundreds of sod poodles with a 14" twist 16" barrel and 55-grain pills (which will certainly work), I said 'best results'! Longer barrels get a little more velocity out of the round, and heavier bullets buck the wind better.
My prairie-dog shooting partner has an AR with a stainless fluted 1-8" twist 26" barrel made by Mark Chanlyn. He shoots the 60-gr. Vmax (which only needs a 1-12" twist in a .223) and I have observed many of his hits out to a laser-ranged quarter mile. That distance is pushing it a bit for those lighter bullets out here in windy Colorado though.
Go with the longer heavier barrel and an 8" twist and you'll be able to shoot bullets up to the 80-grain Sierra Matchking or 75-grain Hornady A-Max for long windy shots, yet still be able to shoot the 55's or 60's if you like. The 60, in the V-Max (Hornady) or hollowpoint (Hornady and Sierra) is a darn good all-around weight for shooting out to 400 if the wind isn't too horrible. I've ruined many a rat's day with the 60 V-Max. Now if only I could convince Steve Hornady to make a 70-grain boattail V-Max or A-Max, that would be perfect for me (I've tried, and he won't...yet).
Oh by the way...on the original topic, it seems mostly a matter of taste. AR's are more pricey but more versatile, and generally heavier. Bolt guns are trimmer and can be had very light indeed (Rem. Model 7, Browning A-Bolt Micro).
Handling qualities are very different. Me, I hate the way an AR feels, and love a trim light bolt gun. But, it's hard to beat the efficiency, accuracy, and versatility of the AR.
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