24 Nosler

Hidalgo said:
The 260 and the 6.5CM are about even. The 260 isn't any "better" nor "worse". Just apples to apples IMO unless you are looking to shoot over 600-700 yards. Then the CM has a definite advantage due to the bullet choices (for reloaders especially).

But about the 243 ....... try stuffing a 115 Berger in a 243 case and then get it into a stock factory magazine. Not likely to happen. So saying that the 243 "beats the 6CM" is just not a true overall statement. No opinion ... just fact. And once again, this comes into play at long distance. Which in reality there might be a handful of us here that shoot at those distances. Heck ... most of us old farts can't even see that far! :ROFLMAO:

All of the Creedmoor cartridges came into being for one thing: Distance shooting. And they have proven their merit in competition. Are they the best choice for the casual range rat or hunter? Not necessarily. But they definitely kill game and put itty-bitty groups on targets when tuned properly.

If I had a 260 that shot great and fit me, and was a reliable firearm, would I let it go to replace it with a 6.5CM? Heck no! But would I trade my current 6.5 for a 260? Nope.
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The 260 rem, outdoes the 6.5 creedmoor, factory for factory. That’s not an opinion.

Again, I never said anything bad about the creed, nor the owners of them. What I’m saying, is don’t come at me with the typical fanboy slogan of “it’s the best 26 ever made, gotta have one. Fastest. Flattest, 26 in the entire world”.

It’s exhausting. And anyone that tells you, that the 260 rem would’ve taken its place if it would’ve gotten the same hype and backing in its day.. it’s a bold face liar, or living in some kind of opinionated, big ego, world.
 
Austin Laughlin said:
I’m not dogging someone for their caliber choice, nor for their opinion, whatsoever. To each, their own. I’m the type, that if I’ve been killing coyotes my entire life with a 40gr at 4000fps+ and someone tells me “You need to be shooting 60gr, they’re way better. Only way to go”. I can’t help but shake my head and laugh.
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The folks that say those things are the ones that can't understand why the coyote/deer/whatever that they hit in the paunch didn't fall in its tracks. ;) They need a bigger gun.
 
Well, with a bit of research, this is straight from the Precision Rifle Shooters website and shows what the pros are using. And believe me ... they can use anything they wish. And not a 260 Rem listed at all. But the 6CM and other 6mm cartridges, as well as the 6.5CM are there. This proves what I said earlier ....... long distance shooting is what they were designed for. And they excel at that use.
 

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Hidalgo said:
Well, with a bit of research, this is straight from the Precision Rifle Shooters website and shows what the pros are using. And believe me ... they can use anything they wish. And not a 260 Rem listed at all. But the 6CM and other 6mm cartridges, as well as the 6.5CM are there. This proves what I said earlier ....... long distance shooting is what they were designed for. And they excel at that use.
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What I’m saying is, is tell that to every animal that has fallen to the originals. And tell the people that have shot world records with the “old calibers” and still do. That’s all I am saying.

There’s been plenty of animals that fell to my 223 AI out past 500, that it worked well on.

Speed kills
 
William Suter said:
I got lucky. I bought an older Marlin 336 in 35 Remington and with factory fodder, 200 grain Leverevolution, its hovering right at an inch at 100yds. Waiting on bullets to see if I can duplicate the load.
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Some of that factory ammo is outstanding, and my straight grip Marlin from 1964 would bug hole with the first box of the 30-30 160 gr Lever that I bought. So I ordered several more boxes and it was not even close to that first box. This was maybe 15 years ago now, when it first came out. The velocity of that first batch was significantly slower also. My Marlin likes that bullet but it likes it slow, even with handloads. I use Lever powder as it seems to work pretty well. I think my loads with A2495 gave better accuracy but were really slow.

The 94s will shoot, but everything has to be just right with the forearm, and barrel bands. You float the barrel in the bands and relieve the wood contact with the barrel then leave the band screws a little loose, seems to be the best way. Honestly, they are very accurate, if you could shoot a cold bore shot each time. My first shot is almost always where expected, with the second very close, then they will wander sometimes. Sometime I'm going to wait 15 minutes between rounds just to see what it will do.
 
Patterns starting to open up with lever guns is a pretty normal occurrence. I had a 336 that did the same thing. We tried numerous bullets and powders all with the same result. I finally resolved myself to the fact that the first shot was likely to be on a stone cold barrel when hunting and after numerous trips to the range I was satisfied that it would put that first shot where I wanted it. I never fidgeted with the stock fit, etc and just accepted it as it was.
 
Well there is a flip side to my Marlin. I also found three partial box's of some really old Winchester and Remington bullets in a local pawn shop. One box had 7 200 grain Silvertips. I didn't shoot them because they looks so cool. I did shoot some of the other and it shot HORRIBLE!!!! But when I went to the LVR it was a totally different rifle. Kicked like a Georgia mule too.
 
Is that Hornady Lever ammo worth a hoot? Always just shot a cheap box of Core-Lokts or Winchesters out of that 94. Didn’t know if there was a huge difference or what.
 
Austin Laughlin said:
Is that Hornady Lever ammo worth a hoot? Always just shot a cheap box of Core-Lokts or Winchesters out of that 94. Didn’t know if there was a huge difference or what.
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In all honesty I've only shot 2 or 3 boxes of the stuff, I have 2 or 3 left but I tend to save the factory stuff and shoot handloads. But what I shot varied in accuracy and speed but I think the first box was a very early lot. The bullets themselves will help stretch your range a little bit, they give enough energy and retain enough speed to open up further out and I'd feel good at 250 yds if you're rifle is accurate enough with them. The round nose 150's I've shot also shoot great, they just drop off their speed and energy a lot faster.

I've only shot 2 deer with 30-30s, about 20 seconds apart. I had 2 rifles with me, wanted to try both bullets. Both shots were about 150 yds, the 160 ftx deer sprinted maybe 15 yds, the second doe stood there so I shot it with the other rifle with 150 rn and it dropped instantly. Both hits were perfect.

The back story is that about 3 years ago I scored a gorgeous m94 angle eject with checkered stocks, nearly mint, at a gun show for $500 otd. It just sparked a renewed interest in the rifles and the round so I put a scout scope on my inherited, well worn m94 from 1964 (lowest of the low years) and it shoots probably better than the newer one lol. The old one was a fan favorite with the nephews this last weekend shooting light loads with pistol bullets and Unique. The third rifle is also 1964 model Marlin 336 rc with straight stock, sometimes called a Texan I believe. It was a pawn shop buy for $245 about 20 years ago. As I was saying earlier it also shoots fantastic with the right loads. It's probably the better rifle, but I really prefer the look and feel of the Winchesters.
 
That sure is neat. Retaining more energy makes perfect sense, I know some guys that are hardcore lever gun hunters and they swear that they’re the cream of the crop. I’ve just only ever shot the old flat/round nosed lead ammo, but the one or two deer I did shoot, were DRT.
 
Back to the 24 Nosler as we seemed to have wandered off track. Some of the new cartridges, while maybe not better IMO, are maybe more effective for the purpose they are meant for. Some disciplines don't need velocity as much as they need the BC for distance. Myself, I prefer velocity over heavy for caliber. But, that's just me. I'll never tell someone not to build a rifle as its none of my business. I may question them but won't tell them not to.
 
William Suter said:
.............. Some disciplines don't need velocity as much as they need the BC for distance. Myself, I prefer velocity over heavy for caliber. But, that's just me. I'll never tell someone not to build a rifle as its none of my business. I may question them but won't tell them not to.
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In my opinion, velocity comes 2nd to accuracy. A coyote, deer, or most anything else in the lower 48 won't know the difference in 200fps when hit with a chunk of lead. But hit them in the wrong spot and you're in for a long day. And the heavier chunk of lead that I can accurately hit them with (within reason) only makes sense as long as it is launched at a reasonable velocity.

As for the original discussion, it's really a moot point. The Creedmoor, PRC, ARC, BR, and other cartridges came into existence for use in long range accuracy competition. And they have made their way into the hobby and hunting groups (us). They were never intended to be used outside of PRC competition but the manufacturers are milking them for everything they are worth by pushing them to us. And that's just smart marketing. Are they any better? Maybe. Maybe not. That question can only be answered by each individual. And if you have confidence in whatever cartridge you are likely to be a better shooter with that one.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 243, 308, 30.06, 22-250, 257 Bob, and many other cartridges that have been with us for years and are proven choices. But that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement.
 
To each their own, but I’m on the speed end of things.

Especially coyotes. The different between 3000fps and 4000fps, is the difference in leading one out of your scope 20ft while it’s running compared to keeping him in the glass. That’s just one instance.

If heavy and slow trips your trigger, by all means. But not this guy. I could do this all day, but for the sake of things staying civil and not offending anyone.. it’s about like politics, I just nod my head and go on. I don’t think there will ever be a common ground found to be real honest.

If the 24 Nosler suits your style, have at it. I’m sure it’s got its place in someone’s safe, and I hope they are thoroughly successful with it.
 
Austin Laughlin said:
To each their own, but I’m on the speed end of things.

Especially coyotes. The different between 3000fps and 4000fps, is the difference in leading one out of your scope 20ft while it’s running compared to keeping him in the glass.
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How far and what power is your scope set on ,normally ?

I ask because I've used lots of chamberings in the 2500-4100 fps range. Not once have I ever lost the animal in the FOV when leading it.

I do agree more FPS is helpful when doing so.
 
I like speed and accuracy. I want both in my rifles. I sold all my Creed stuff. I had several 6.5's and built a 6 and just couldn't get the speed I wanted out of the 6.5 nor the accuracy I expected from the 6 CM so I'm done with them. I did buy a 6.5 PRC with expectations of a heavier fast bullet. My first reloading was very disappointing. Great accuracy but not near the FPS I was expecting. I switched powders using the same bullet and gained 300 FPS. I went from 2760 to 3160ish and still have good accuracy. My 22-250AI runs a 52 grain Berger at 3780 and shoots 1/2 inch groups at 200yds if I'm on my game that day and I could push it harder but see no reason. I can't ask for much more from either rifle.
 
I didn’t figure anyone would take it so literal. It was a vague example.

It doesn’t matter if you’re on the speed side of the fence, or the heavy and slow side.

More speed wins. Even in someone’s argument over the heavy and slower, high B.C bullets…

You want more KE? You want more momentum? You need more speed.

In a more “literal” example I guess, is on the fly type of shots. The difference between a faster cartridge and a slower cartridge, and misjudging your distance (think he’s 400, and he’s at 450-475)

Is the difference between a dead coyote and a lesson learned.

Being able to throw up and hold on hair at 400, compared to having to hope I dialed right, is a big win for me. Even the counter argument of “well sight your rifle in higher at set range, and it compensates for it” is invalid. Apples to oranges.
 


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