.243 for elk? d

Originally Posted By: quarterbored.... then there'd be a lot more discussion of propper elk skinning knives and packing equipment... than of necessary calibers for their harvest.

Probably not in the firearms section of the forum.

And as I said earlier, no one is doubting the fact that a 243 Win will kill an elk. I've seen it done too. But it's far from the best tool for a hunter to use when much better cartridge and bullet choices exist.

Keep making it up as you go... Its getting sillier by the post...

-BCB
 
Pieeyed, if you read back on my post I was in no way bragging about the over 500yd shot with a 243. The shot was made by a kid who couldn't shoot larger calibers, with John Burns by his side(professional long range hunter), and with one of Burns' long range guns. I wasn't bragging about the shot, I only stated it to let people know what is possible with the right equipment, and practice.
BCB, I have nothing against larger calibers, I shoot those also. The kid asked if it will do the job, and the answer is yes
 
Too many pages to go back now. I just perceived it as bragging with all that was posted. I agree that it can be done. My preference is to use a larger caliber.
 
The best tool for killing elk is between your ears... not the long thing you carry that goes boom.

You fail to realize what I'm saying... good shots kill stuff... bad shots wound stuff... no caliber will make up for that... but pretty much every caliber will handle critters with well constructed bullets in vital places.

How is that "silly"?
 
Originally Posted By: quarterboredThe best tool for killing elk is between your ears... not the long thing you carry that goes boom.

You fail to realize what I'm saying... good shots kill stuff... bad shots wound stuff... no caliber will make up for that... but pretty much every caliber will handle critters with well constructed bullets in vital places.

How is that "silly"?

I fully understand what you are saying about the brains part. And also the good shot/bad shot stuff. That's part of being a good hunter...

And I also understand that "pretty much every caliber will handle critters with well constructed bullets in vital places." Still, some cartridges/bullets are definitely better suited for certain tasks than others.

However my not choosing the cartridge you want me to chose does not make you better in any way as a hunter. That's the silly part you've been pushing.

You know absolutely nothing about me and many others here who you are trying to convince with your silly argument.

Have a nice evening.

-BCB
 
I'm not saying that I'm a better hunter... I'm saying trying to be a better hunter will nearly always trump the headstamp on the brass. I've only shot a couple of elk... two with a .25-06 using 100 NBT... and a couple with a .308... neither of which are "elk calibers"... but the elk didn't know that. All were well inside 100 yards and broadside. I don't think the outcome would have been any different with a .243... privided it was stoked with appropriate fodder.

My point is... caliber is about 5th on the list of things to be concerned about when pulling the trigger on a critter as big as a bull elk. Nobody's a better hunter than the next guy... so long as there's a bullet hole through the clockwork. Shots to the paunch, hips, etc... well then there may be an argument.
 
Originally Posted By: quarterbored......I'm saying trying to be a better hunter will nearly always trump the headstamp on the brass.....

I agree totally with that statement. But who anointed you as an individual capable of telling the next person what he shouldn't shoot because its not your idea of what makes a good hunter? That's where our agreement ends.... Again, that's the silly part of your argument. Many folks can and do shoot the bigger calibers much better than other folks can shoot a 243 Win.

Originally Posted By: quarterbored.....Nobody's a better hunter than the next guy... so long as there's a bullet hole through the clockwork. Shots to the paunch, hips, etc... well then there may be an argument.

Again, I agree totally.... However, all kinds of animals have been shot where "there may be an argument" with all of the various calibers including the 243 Win. I've seen folks who shouldn't be allowed to hunt with a BB gun. Some of them are carrying a 243 Win and some are carrying a 338 Win Mag. And the results will be pretty similar in spite of the cartridge used.

Again, being a good hunter isn't determined by the caliber a hunter uses. Being a good hunter means a person can effectively shoot the rifle he chooses to use..... The ability to choose a good cartridge/bullet combination suitable for the game to be taken is also part of being a good hunter. And not every choice available is the best choice for a lot of different reasons.

And to say it again...No one is arguing that the 243 Win won't kill an elk. I've seen it done.... There just happens to be better choices available to the hunter who can use the better tools. And a 338 Win Mag in the wrong hands is no better or worse than a 243 Win is in the wrong hands...

-BCB
 
Originally Posted By: quarterboredYou're a slob hunter if you expect caliber and "energy" to make up for poor shot selection/placement. What caliber you use makes no difference...

I'll disagree with both statements to some degree.

Expecting caliber/velocity to make up for poor shooting won't necessarily make someone a "slob". It just means they need more knowledge than they have. Ignorance does not make a slob. Willful ignorance? Maybe. One should be open minded enough to learn.

Shot placement is very important, but so is caliber. Believe it or not, a great shot with a .17 HM2 isn't going to do the job very well.

Caliber and velocity ARE important...up to a point. An elk at 200 yards will be just as dead with good shot placement if shot with a .308, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, or 30/378 Wby. The 30/378 Wby has aproximately the same energy at 400 yards as the .308 Win at the muzzle, so the primary reason for using it is to get more effective range.

I'm not dishing those who can make the shots, either. Hunt as you will within your capabilities, but I know of several people who've tried these kinds of shots with their big boomsticks without ever having shot them at those ranges. When one relies on the capabilities of their equipment to increase their performance level, without having increased their own abilities to match that ezpected of their equipment then they're asking for trouble.

I don't use the .243 Win for elk, and I wouldn't as long as I have a better option. I've shot deer at near 500 yards with the 7mm Rem Mag when that was the only option, and I've shot coyotes way on out past that range with a .243 Win. 500 yard shots are within my capabilities, but I'd still rather take a 150 yard shot at an elk with a .243 than have to take a 500 yard shot with something bigger. Less time-of-flight for the bullet leaves less chance of the animal taking a step and getting "gut-shot", or an errant breeze altering the POI, or any of a number of things that can happen at long range (or a combination of them).

That said, I'd also not push the distance much with a .243 on larger animals. In general, if someone has to ask what the effectiveness of their cartridge is, they probably haven't shot it enough to do what they intend to do with it.

Daryl
 
It appears there are too many guys off work for the holidays for a thread as silly as this to go 7 pages. I believe you can kill an Elk with a 17 HMR but it makes it a no better a decision than a 243. I really like the one with the "professional long range hunter" sitting beside the shooter. Kinda like having one of Elmer Keith's magazine articles in your back pocket as you fire away at a Mule Deer at 600 yards with a 44 mag pistol.
 
I think it took 2 shots with the 17 to kill the downed elk at about 20 yards. Probably could have been done in one with a better bullet.
 
Ken, how does your comment even remotely relate to what I said about the kid. He was taught how to use the setup and Burns was right beside him while he used it. How does that even come close? Please enlighten me
 
Originally Posted By: va_kenIt appears there are too many guys off work for the holidays for a thread as silly as this to go 7 pages......

How many are "too many"...?

-BCB
 
Originally Posted By: pieeyedI think it took 2 shots with the 17 to kill the downed elk at about 20 yards. Probably could have been done in one with a better bullet.

Actually it was a 17Rem (shooting hand loaded Nagel's with the same J-4 jackets that Berger uses),, not a Hummer,, but I can see how you got confused since this thread has gone in ten different directions..
I think we're on the same page though,, as my point was that a well placed shot with a caliber that's to small isn't any better than a poorly placed shot with a large caliber.
Unfortunatly that poor Elk had to experience some of both and was a REAL WORLD example that I thought people could take something away from,, although the way this thread's going,,, I kinda doubt it..
Carry on..
 
Facts went by the wayside long ago here, Charlie...

IMO, the entire thread turned into a chest thumping exercise on the part of a few folks who feel they have the Holy Grail answer to what makes a good hunter versus a bad hunter.

Again....JMO - BCB
 
Originally Posted By: Bayou City BoyFacts went by the wayside long ago here, Charlie...

IMO, the entire thread turned into a chest thumping exercise on the part of a few folks who feel they have the Holy Grail answer to what makes a good hunter versus a bad hunter.

Again....JMO - BCB
I seems as though that is the case
saying someone is a slob hunter for using a suitable cal for the game being hunted is a bit out there
"besides my aunt Tessie shot 2 charging Polar bears with a 243"
gimme a break
 
Quote:
Actually it was a 17Rem (shooting hand loaded Nagel's with the same J-4 jackets that Berger uses),, not a Hummer,, but I can see how you got confused since this thread has gone in ten different directions..
I think we're on the same page though,, as my point was that a well placed shot with a caliber that's to small isn't any better than a poorly placed shot with a large caliber.
Unfortunatly that poor Elk had to experience some of both and was a REAL WORLD example that I thought people could take something away from,, although the way this thread's going,,, I kinda doubt it..
Carry on..

Yeah I got it, was just fun to use your good deed to add to the entertainment here. Do we get a completion certificate when the thread is done?
 
Originally Posted By: Bayou City BoyOriginally Posted By: quarterbored.... then there'd be a lot more discussion of propper elk skinning knives and packing equipment... than of necessary calibers for their harvest.



And as I said earlier, no one is doubting the fact that a 243 Win will kill an elk. I've seen it done too. But it's far from the best tool for a hunter to use when much better cartridge and bullet choices exist.



-BCB

What more can be said.
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top