Thanks guys for the replys its always good to ask advice from people who have the experience, ok the gun will not be for predators primaliry, I have a 17 rem for that real sweet and i love it, thats not to say if old charlie (fox) shows up while out on a stalk that he wont get a taste of one of the above mentioned cals /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif, that would be 2 hard for me resist, not sure about any UN moves to get rid of military cals like the 308 that would be bad news as far as a lot of shooters over here are concerned as its real popular and the 7.62 ammo is pretty cheap for practising with even by 2days standards,the 6.5x55 swedish as mentioned another option, was looking at a few rifles 2nite at my local gun dealer a lakelander? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif never heard of one till i saw it maybe 20 years old like new really nice looking rifle, also looked at a Howa made in japan i think anyone have any experience of any of these ?