Originally Posted By: JerrySchmittOriginally Posted By: AckmanI don't know about 243AI "long". There's not much left on that case to do a long version. That case in the picture looks like an AI only with the reamer pushed in a just a little too far. Like something a home gunsmith might do.....someone who also doesn't bother to stamp the barrel.
There's nothing at all wrong with a 13 twist barrel. Not everybody cares about shooting 105's. Benchresters have been using 14's for years. One of my 243AI's is 13twist. I shoot 70's and they're just godawful accurate.....it's a rockchuck/prairie dog gun. Another one is 9-1/2 twist, same barrel and chamber. It's also very accurate but much fussier about what it likes to shoot.....took a lot longer to get the load dialed in.
My .240 Gibbs is 13 twist. Shoots 70's very fast and unbelievably well. The 6BR is 14 twist......extremely accurate. Both 6-250's are 12 twist - varmint guns - and they're also very accurate.
You missed my point.
Benchrest shooters use a 14 twist for short range BR shooting. 100 & 200 yards. Why build a 28 inch long .243 Ackley to shoot short range when a 6 PPC or 6 BR (or a number of other 6MM) will be more accurate with a quater less powder and three timess the barrel life?
Why build a 28 inch barrel rifle shooting a barrel burning cartridge for short range shooting.
That's all I neant. Nothing more, nothing less.
I have a 6MM BR with a 14 twist for short range prairie dog shooting and I love it. It has a 20 inch long barrel and will take any poor dog that lingers inside 500 yards with it's 65 VMAX @ 3350 FPS. When I move out to 750 yards that 65 VMAX has dropped 22.5 MOA while my 105 from my 8 twist 6mm BR that started at 2850 has only dropped 18.5 MOA and the 105 from my 8 twist .243 AI has dropped 17 MOA. even though at 500 yards their drop was about the same.
Bullet velocity is only useful if it has a purpose. Launching a 105 AMAX at 3000 FPS won't kill a prairie dog any deader than launching a 65 VMAX at 3900 FPS. It just makes hitting them at long range easier.
Shooting prairie dogs at 200 - 300 yards is fun but shooting prairie dogs at 800+ is funner.
Good morning Jerry.
"Shooting prairie dogs at 200 - 300 yards is fun but shooting prairie dogs at 800+ is funner."
Well, it sure is more funner .
But since you are one of the more brighter bulbs in this chandelier - I'll be a pain in the butt and disagree - not about the 800 yd shots on PD's, but on the necessity of very long bullets for very long ranges.
I've been through several stages in the long bullet thing, and I'm now at the stage of "Long bullets may not be the solution" stage.
When I went to SoDak the first time for PDs, there were pretty much no long bullets and fast twists guns, except for the 224 Clarke (a 244 Rem necked down to 22... and once a year, Hornady made a special run of 80 grain 224 bullets for a closed list of customers).
On that trip, I had two 222 mag benchrest rifles, a 22-250, and a 6mm Rem. One of the other guys brought two 222 Rem rifles, and his very newish 224 Clarke and a WW-II 30" Barr and Stroud optical rangefinder. It was in very good condition, and it was the first one I had ever seen - it was way Kewl!...
... and there was a third guy with a few 222 type rifles and a 22-250.
Most of the scopes were Unertls, with a few Redfield targets (3200s or 6400s, I can't remember), and two K-10s
The first two days, we whacked some dogs, but we were mostly making range charts for the calibrated micrometers on our rifles, since none us of had ever seen, much less used, a rangefinder before.
When we got down to the dark and dirty business of slaying poor widdle, cute PD,s we learned a few things.
I learned that if you are fighting a cross wind at long range, no matter what you shoot, you cannot win, and I never forgot it - while a long heavy bullet drifts less, it still drifts way too much to get an accurate estimate for a first shot hit... you still need to "see the drift" (in the form of a puff of dust) and compensate.
And for the issue of less drop... if you have a range chart and range finder (and now everyone and their grandmother has a laser RangeFinder), then the amount of drop is meaninglessness.
The practical end of it is that the third guy and myself whacked more long range PDs (700+ yds) with our 222 class rifles, than the guy with the 224 Carke did, because:
1 - If you know the range and have a "click chart", then the comparative drop between heavy and light bullets is meaningless - it is just a number on the scope dial... you dial 17 and I dial 21 and we both are "dead on" (that was a pun
)
2 - We could see our misses and instantly correct, the guy with the Clarke couldn't get back on the PD in time to see the puffs of dust and correct.
3 - We learned by the third day to completely avoid dealing with the wind - we set up so the wind was at our back or in our face so we always had no side wind.
But the other side of it is, that with those very long/heavy bullets - at the early stage of acceleration, the barrel transit time is ~twice that of a "normal" weight bullet, which means twice the heat transfer and twice the throat erosion.
Add to that, while PDs don't take much killin', woodchucks do, and those long needles at 400+ yards have a habit of zippin' through a 15 pound woodchuck without opening... and the 'chuck makes it back to the hole and bleeds out
So I am at the stage where I don't do fast twist/heavy bullet rifles anymore.
Just a thought...
