.308 Win with TAC and 175 SMK

[Sgt_Mike]

Did two different ladders (only difference was brass Lapua vs LC LR both LRP) today to see how TAC might perform with the 175gr SMK SKU #2275

ladder 1 LC LR Brass CBTO 2.360" CCI primer..
41.0 = 2557
41.3 = 2584
41.6 = 2589
41.9 = 2643
42.2 = 2604
42.5 = 2702
42.8 = 2717
43.1 = 2694
43.4 = 2699
43.7 = 2716
44.0 = 2786
44.3 = 2764

Ladder 2 Lapua Brass CBTO 2.360" CCI primer..
41.0 =2441
41.3 = 2586
41.6 = 2604
41.9 = 2605
42.2 = 2601
42.5 = 2630
42.8 = 2676
43.1 = 2633
43.4 = 2682
43.7 = 2690
44.0 = 2732
44.3 = 2728

None of the load exhibited a heavy bolt lift, flattened primers, ejector swipes or indentation.
Ohh P.S. I forgot to mention all LRP brass.

 

[Sgt_Mike]

Loaded total 15 rounds, CBTO 2.363" TAC 43.3gr CCI LR, (3 strings of 5) (LC LR cases)
String1 (1.21 MOA)
Avg vel 2655
SD 8.9
ES 21.7

String 2 (1.14 MOA)
Avg vel 2678
SD 14.8
ES 41.7

String 3 (1.29 MOA)
Avg vel 2629
SD 30.0
ES 86.6

Did another 15 rounds of same CBTO, and powder type etc, except the charge was 43.9grs, so again another 3 strings of five.
String 4 (2.522 MOA)
Avg Vel 2700
SD 21.9
ES 49.2

String 5 (0.996 MOA)
Avg Vel 2703
SD 19.8
ES 52.2

String 6 (1.591 MOA)
Avg Vel 2698
SD 10.4
ES 29.2

Not exactly stellar had quite a few called fliers when I broke the trigger (string 5 was the only string I didn't call a flier or two. String 4 was a total tragedy on my part).

Not sure if being so pissed about last nights results crept into the groups or not. Reguardless they are what they are. With that being said when I came back to the house I loaded another 10 at the 43.3gr charge of TAC this time I set the CBTO on the SMK's for a 0.020" Jump.
Which honestly with that bullet I should have done that right off the bat as they seem to shoot best at 0.015" to 0.020" jump in the past.

Then for giggles without a actual load work up (for this barrel) I loaded up 15 with IMR 8208XBR setting the charge at 1gr below Sierra's max, and with the 0.020" jump. I've used this powder (IMR 8208XBR) in the past with other .308's with decent results and have found right 1 gr off max to be really good with the SMK, In the 155gr SMK (#2155) this powder has been absolutely deadly... so we will see if this ole girl will respond..

 

[Sgt_Mike]

Funny even though I keep dating the .308 I keep coming home to Dame Helen Mirren....


Just ran across this and laughed my ar*e off just figured I'd share the humor...

 

[hm1996]

ladder 1 LC LR Brass CBTO 2.360" CCI primer..
41.0 = 2557
41.3 = 2584
41.6 = 2589
41.9 = 2643
42.2 = 2604
42.5 = 2702
42.8 = 2717
43.1 = 2694
43.4 = 2699
43.7 = 2716
44.0 = 2786
44.3 = 2764

Thats an iteresting node between 42.8 and 43.7, Mike.

 

[Sgt_Mike]

Thats an iteresting node between 42.8 and 43.7, Mike.

I've not shot that with the laupa brass yet it may very well be the ticket... I thought it best to reshoot one of the LC LR brass loads to see if it was just me even though I'm absolutely convinced it was.... (might have to load some of them up to night for this weekend..... the Lapua brass)

 

[hm1996]

I've only tried Lapua brass one time years ago and was less than impressed. Of course, the fact that I had unlimited supply of both M2 ball and M72 brass available at the time, might have had an influence, but to be honest the LC 57--- brass was as accurate for my needs as any of it. I did tend to use M72 for long range but the M2 was great brass.

 

[popper43]

IMR 8208XBR word great in my AR10 308 with Amaxes.

 

[Sgt_Mike]

While NOT TAC powder this is the norm with the 155's #2155 SMK when using IMR 8208 XBR , now this load is using Lapua SRP brass. (hopefully one can read my writing i did include my load data on the target).

And yes I do have a load in the .30-06 same bullet and powder but with LC brass (again 721 action with that big honking diameter barrel at 30") that actually shoots a bit tighter than the .308 does....... The other Lapua brass I was mentioning above to try with TAC is LRP (have a small amount of both Primer sizes in .308). The actual only thing I honestly see is the primer pocket strength between SRP and LRP. The SRP seems to last a bit longer, or at least has been my observation so far..

While I have drifted away from the intent which was to have a base line of HOW TAC performs with MY setup in the 175's . I do like how it meters ... like water. It is available , it is a bit less than say 4895 /4064 / 8208XBR locally. After having a discussion with @Bowhntr6pt I went to the local haunt that I knew had 4895 / 4064 .. and because I opened my big mouth yeahhh now sold out.. (including all 5 cases I seen in the floor at that shop) killed my plans to help someone out...

 

[Sgt_Mike]

Now to jump off of here for a few hours... the range is open, and I'll shoot the loads with TAC that I have loaded up. Probably will take the 700 PCR with me with the 145gr Barnes SRP (6.5CM pushed by 6.5 StaBall) to shoot against .308 just for giggles. Hopefully the ones I did will keep up with the 700 PCR.

The other powder that I'm considering, but won't attempt in this post is H335 in the .308 (thinking Sierra 135ish to 125grs for that). Just to share my abstract thoughts.

Never had any real good luck with A Max, now the actual Match Hornady has I have had some good results. The A Maxs not so much (yes I did try some was not impressed is me being polite, The old throat on this ole girl doesn't like them). Not slamming the Hornady at all, just sharing thoughts and results.

(and stop by the smith out that way he wanted some 4227 from me to try in a .500 S&W lever gun, before he orders some, Not that he has the Dasher done... )

 

[hm1996]

One of the best loads for the .308 BAR was the 110 gr Armaghedon and H335. Love the way 335 measures, too.
It also liked H4895 behind a 125 gr NAB (max load). Never tried 335/125 gr.

 

[Sgt_Mike]

Wellllll crapola...
Restarted the load the Lapua brass 175's we starting great and the all of a sudden every thing went to cheese crackers.... I do believe the dang erector broke in that weaver scope (classic 6-24 x40 AO) that was on that rifle when I bought it........(checked on the warranty and whom took over claims.. Bushnell sorry nope)

Oh well at least the 700 PCR with it's Leupold was preforming extremely well... Just for giggles and fun I grabbed one of the RSO's and told her (yes her, the Junior trap champion). Ashley hey wanna do a friendly shoot off .. 5 rounds on the 700 for score... Knowing both her and her husband and she is old enough to be my grand daughter. She was Like sure I told her I got this old 6.5 CM you will like it.. at the end we tied 50-4X . Talk about excited after shooting that old Remington 700 she was like man I like this one. Yes I generally let her shoot a few rounds out of what I bring as well as her husband. She usually doesn't do rifles.


So the above was written yesterday.. Ed my buddy whom was there at the Range with me asked if I wanted to hit the Gun show in Hot Springs.. Got up this morning early and headed over to his house.. we took off . The show wasn't that great. However he had been talking about a .204 Ruger, he finds a Savage 11 in that exact caliber. So he snatches it up. On the back side of the building one guy had his table set up. There sat a Remington 722 action (some of ya'll are aware of my weakness)... I looked walked away then came back Ed was in tow with his new to him .204 Ruger. I asked the guy his best price .. then I state what I wanted to be at he starts of welll they... I stopped him Look the blooming thing had been side D&T for that stupid tip off mount that back in the late 50 and 60's was popular.. The Bolt is a Remington 700, the trigger is the Mike Walker there is no collectability here... He then responds at $5.00 over what I stated . My response was Sold.. So we went through the tables again for a few more times.. There was a Leupold on the table but a fixed power. He wanted too much in my opinion for it. We then left and hit a pawn shop or two,, wound up at Bass Pro. I'm over at the optic counter, Ed had gotten a flyer on this "big" sale. We inquired and turns out it was on the Vortex crossfire line. Now Ed has been wish washing on getting another scope so I have the guy at the counter pulling out Leupold Mark 3 and up , a Burris Fullfield, and several Ziess's. We are going through them and I asked the sales guys how forgiving the eyebox was . Blank stare I snickered already knowing the answer. Ok then Ed and I was talking so I went through the ones I had the guy showed us. Looked dead at Ed the best buy vs quality to cost Ed is the Burris 6.5-25 X50 with the E3 Reticle. Ed never missed a beat looks at the salesman states git me one of those. I stopped him a few feet from the counter and tell him to get two.. so now the weaver issue is solved until I find a actual repair shop (outside Bushnell .. sorry I'm a snob) to fix the weaver as the Glass in that classic is actually good. (jap glass).
Today made up for the tragedy of a scope failure yesterday. Now the only thing left is to mount the Burris 6.5-25X40 (30mm tube) ...
ETA:
Oh I had a typo .. the Objective is a 50mm not a 40 on that scope (Burris).. derrrpp

 

[popper43]

Amax from AR10 carbine.

 

[Sgt_Mike]

Love the way 335 measures, too.

Same here it meters well in the two different Powder measure I have.. IMR 8208XR does pretty good occasionally cuts a grain, but not very often at all. H335, IMR 8208XBR, TAC, CFE 223 (actually any ball powder) throw extremely consistant out of the old Pacific measure I have.

Because I'm using the Leupold STD bases and rings I dug around in my tool box... waalaaa low height 30mm STD rings.. woohoo broke out the level and away we went. My thought was if the OBJ bell (50mm) was too big I'll mount the Leupold 6-18 x40 Freedom I have (my backup, it has 30mm tube as well). The Burris mounted perfectly set the torque wrench to 24 IN-LBS locked the rings on. Actually pretty good clearance to the barrel. now could I have picked up the Zeiss, Kalhes, or Schmidt and Bender ..sure but having one Rifle in the shop for a rebarrel, and other things, such as that new to me action. I went with the Burris as the other I have works flawless.

Ohh what I didn't mention was Ed when we was in the Store I kept looking at him and telling him that the optic is actually clearer , so when we got out of the store I broke mine out of the box and said here look... He was OMG that is a ton clearer.
Now only thing left is to zero and rerun the test.

@popper43 which weight Amax is that? Looks to be effective for Yotes and such ..

 

[popper43]

Amax 168 IIRC.

This was from Henry Long Ranger - very unuasual shooting situation.

 

[Sgt_Mike]

While waiting & prepping to go to the range later this week decided to play with a spreadsheet Just for Load development and have it actually do a graph.
At first I attempted to attach the file in this post ... nope not supported (fully understand why too.) being lazy I didn't "zip" it so it would attach...
so figured I would just do a cut and paste of the first ladder so I'll show the graph first then data below ... (just to give a idea , I used data from the first post in the make up of this spreadsheet as it was still relevant).

ladder 1 LC LR Brass CBTO 2.360" CCI primer (TAC powder)..
41.0 = 2557
41.3 = 2584
41.6 = 2589
41.9 = 2643
42.2 = 2604
42.5 = 2702
42.8 = 2717
43.1 = 2694
43.4 = 2699
43.7 = 2716
44.0 = 2786
44.3 = 2764

Like below the spreadsheet is way cleaner easier to read and the graph of the incremental shot makes way more sense and easier to see the velocity node / plateau than what is shown above.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then I went and actually configured one sheet to calculate 5 shot groups (as in group #'s) into Mean Radius, and then MOA

SAMPLE with made up data just to check function and see if it will cleanly paste on here...

Caliber ​

.308 Win​

Powder​

TAC​

Charge Wgt(gr)​

42.3​

Primer​

CCI LR​

NOTE: setup for 5 shot groups only NO 3 shot groups ​

CBTO​

2.360​

COAL​

--------​

Case​

Lake City LR M118​

​

​

​

​

​

​

Bullet​

175gr SMK BTHP​

SKU​

2155​

SUMMARY​

Group #​

Caliber Bore (in)​

Distance​

Unit (Y/M)​

Horizontal Spread (in)​

Vertical Spread (in)​

Diagonal Spread​

Est. Mean Radius​

Est. MOA​

Average Mean Rad​

Best mean Radius​

Worst mean radius​

Average MOA​

Best MOA​

Worst MOA​

1​

0.308​

100​

Y​

1.000​

0.350​

0.693​

0.201​

0.661​

0.257​

0.149​

0.386​

0.521​

0.358​

0.661​

2​

0.308​

100​

Y​

0.950​

0.350​

0.643​

0.187​

0.613​

​

​

​

​

​

​

3​

0.308​

100​

Y​

0.800​

0.450​

0.512​

0.149​

0.470​

​

​

​

​

​

​

4​

0.308​

200​

Y​

1.500​

0.900​

1.331​

0.386​

0.569​

​

​

​

​

​

​

5​

0.308​

200​

Y​

1.058​

0.900​

0.955​

0.277​

0.358​

​

​

​

​

​

​

6​

0.308​

200​

Y​

1.260​

1.000​

1.177​

0.341​

0.455​

​

​

​

​

​

​

Not exactly as it looks in the spreadsheet which IMHO looks cleaner and easier to read. But that cut and paste sorta works to get the idea across. and yes the math in the spreadsheet WILL Correct for meters, but I sort of Locked the group measurements to inches (imperial decimal) , Yes the column with Caliber bore (in) does subtract the bore dia of the bullet from the group measurement. Also MOA is calculate at 1.047" not 1.0". Yes when you input say 100 or 200 or even 25 yards the formulas will actually calculate the MOA based on input distance, as one can note above when I changed the yardage to 200. Just a tool for ease, tracking data points on the load I suppose . In what I used above 6 groups of five shots is demonstrative of a 30 shot string. Which honestly doesn't have to be fired back to back. One could take what ever time they desired say over a week, a month, or even the life of the rifle..
There is actually a purpose to this thread even if it's drifting a bit it is to show the homework of evaluating TAC for my rifle in that caliber and my methods.

The reason I'm doin 0.3 increments VS what say Gavin on Ultimate Reloader (youtube) system of 0.1 increments is actually simple . HIS scale (laboratory grade) is accurate to +/- 0.01 grs , mine yeah I don't have that amount of money mine is accurate to +/- 0.1grs (which honestly is well good enough for my pursuits).