3rd round is always a flyer

Originally Posted By: 2muchgunI have heard of these "hard to seat" Hornady Match cases more than once.

I was wondering if they had a different headstamp or not. Federal makes 2 kinds of match brass also. One crimped, one not. The headstamps are not the same.....

I've had them that were a bit tight, but nowhere near crimped. Hard to set with a hand tool but not a problem when priming with the press.
 
The headstamps are all the same. We also tried using the press and it was even hard to do with that.

I sent off an email to Hornady a couple hours ago. Ill be interested to see what they say about them.
 
You must have some contact between the barrel and the stock some place, what happens when you run a thin strip of plastic between them? I don buy the brass thing, it would throw flyers at random then.
 
I know the barrel is floated good. I did the dollar bill test. I agree with you that the brass doesnt sound like it would fix the issue but it sure made a huge difference to change it.
 
A 'dollar bill test' is meaningless. Even the stiffest stock and stiffest barrel need at least 10 times that much clearance. A flimsy stock or barrel can easily need 1/8".

Jack
 
Before you scrap your Hornady stuff, take your deburing tool and give it a turn or two in the primer pocket. You just need a slight bevel to the outside rim. If you were not getting every primer seated the same, your groups will suffer. I also think you have a bedding problem, or barrel pressure problem, as it is walking as the barrel heats up. Listen to Jack, if you bump the forearm with your hand, even with light bumps, I bet you can easily make it contact the barrel. Brass would not make your rifle do what it's doing, you would get fliers at random. Factory round is a different powder, different pressure, barrel vibrates differently.

 
Last edited:
Just a wild thought.By any chance do you look through the spotting scope between second and third shot? If so try shooting all three shots without looking.
 
Loosen your front action screw while holding the barrel and front of the stock in your other hand, can you feel it move? Do the same for the back screw, if you feel it give you need to bed it. Same for clearence between the stock and barrel, if you put pressure on the stock when everything is tight will the stock contact the barrel when it's rested on bags? Small clearence is good as long as there is no contact. i dont have no big gaps on any of my rifles, but they all needed some bedding.
 
Last edited:
How about putting top 5 list most probable causes of group "flyer"
1. Shooter inconsistent form
2. Stock to action/barrel fit
3. Cold/clean bore shot
4. Barrel harmonics
5. Mismatched bullet/barrel twist combination

Add delete change order, I am not concerned that my list may need to be amended I want to learn.
 
Originally Posted By: Jack RobertsA 'dollar bill test' is meaningless. Even the stiffest stock and stiffest barrel need at least 10 times that much clearance. A flimsy stock or barrel can easily need 1/8".

Jack

Those that can hear, let them hear!

Two business card clearance is minimal, barrel slaps the stock during recoil. Of course, the dollar bill test is great on safe queens.

On another note, standard SAAMI 308 chambers have a ton of freebore. This freebore can leade to nightmares in chasing the "perfect" seating depths with the bullet that the gun likes, but this is the fun in reloading.

DAA's advise is spot on, better listen to him.

DennyD advise:

Loosen your front action screw while holding the barrel and front of the stock in your other hand, can you feel it move? Do the same for the back screw, if you feel it give you need to bed it. Same for clearence between the stock and barrel, if you put pressure on the stock when everything is tight will the stock contact the barrel when it's rested on bags? Small clearence is good as long as there is no contact. i dont have no big gaps on any of my rifles, but they all needed some bedding.

Really good way to detect any bedding issues with any rifle. I have only seen two HS stocks with the AL blocks that did not benefit from a skim coat bedding job. In the very least, bed the recoil lug.
 
And maybe this was already covered, but did you check the action screws for tightness? If not it's the first thing to check, start with front screw tight, back screw snug. If a thin plastic strip will pass under the barrel then your on the right track, if it dont you have contact at that point.
 
As long as we're taking the shotgun approach, in case it hasn't been mentioned already, along with clicking your heels three times and saying there's no place like home, make sure the scope and mounting system aren't to blame.

Personally, I don't believe in flyers. I do believe in sick rifles, human error and less than optimal loads, but not flyers. But any time a rifle is putting some shots in a knot and some out of the knot with a lot of unbroken paper in between, the first thing I go for is the scope or mounts and more often than not I find the snake there.

But, my rifles have already been inspected stem to stern and all obvious clearance, fitment and bedding issues addressed before the shooting ever starts. Usually not much left it could be, except the scope.

- DAA
 
Well I sent Hornady an email about there brass and got a response today. Here s what they had to say:


RE: "Other" Contact
tech (tech@hornady.com)

The 308 round will have a slight crimp on the primer and if it is not removed after being decapped you will have a bit of an issue priming the case as the new primer is catching on the remnants of the crimp. On the other hand if the ammo is fired in a tight chambered gun or a current production Savage which has a tighter than SAAMI spec. chamber and bore, it can create enough pressure to cause the primer pocket to stretch.

Thanks

So apparently im not so crazy for saying they were crimped.
 
You know, nobody ever said you were crazy. I did say that I've never seen it after loading many of those cases. And that was not a stab at you personally.

You've been very quick to slam-bash folks for not staying on topic in your threads. Now you come across and make a snide "Yeah! I told you so" type of remark about you not being crazy. If you want to continue to get help and have discussions here you might want to entertain changing your blunt attitude. Just saying .......
wink.gif
 
I think you may have misinterpreted what I said. It was not meant in anyway as an I told you so. It was more of a confirmation because I have never heard of crimped primers and thought maybe I had made a mistake to call them that.
 
Back
Top