40 gr NBT VS 60 gr Vmax out off a 223 for DRT and fur saving under 250 yards?

Dultimatpredator

Dultimatpredator

Well-known member
I've been using 60gr vmax for years loaded at 2950fps out of a 20 bbl 1/9 twist and have had bullet sized holes in and out if it exits a coyote. I worked up a load years ago with a 40gr nosler ballistic tip and the same load with a CT that's now discontinued. It shoots around 3600fps and will cloverleaf for me as do the 700 fps slower vmax. Between the two bullets/loads my hold over is 1" vs 1.8" when sighted in at 200 yards and the 40 gr only drop 5.5" vs 8.7" at 300 yards. Here in WI i don't shoot much over 200/250 yards and more realistic most shots will be under a hundred yards. I just would rather use the lighter,faster load with flatter trajectory so I can keep it simple...just aim and shoot not worrying about hold over or under...but am paranoid on DRT performance and if they are fur friendly. I've always wanted to try the faster 40 gr load but never did being I read lot of bad stories here on runners and splashes in years past.

I know posters have used both bullets for years on predators. How dose the 40 gr nosler do for anchoring coyotes and dose it tear up the pelts in yotes, bobcats, and fox? I'm sure fox are out. I have a shotgun and a less than sub MOA shooting 22wmr ruger RAR for them.
 
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I believe your thinking is right on track, I have used a 60 grain for years and very happy with it, it works. I once tried a 45 grain HP and had runners as well as nasty holes in the bobcats and fox that were unlucky enough to cross paths with me. One more thing, I loved the calling more than the shooting so most of my shots were under 100 yards.
 
I use the 40gr NBT(NOT V-max) out of my 22-204(9 twist) at 3950+ fps for a lot of my pelt hunting, the gun just dotes on them and the coyotes just seem to collapse on the spot. Every other .224 (222 Rem, 5.6x50R Mag and 22-250 I use the Speer 52gr FB HP Varminter with great results, no splashes and rarely exits unless I get close to the edges.
 
I like the 40 nbt results over the vmax on coyotes.
What I don't care for in the lighter bullets is the wind drift here in open country.
So I use the .22-250 and 50 gr bullets.
 
I'd stick with the heavier bullet. I've always liked 50+ grain bullets out of a .223, on coyotes that is. If I were trying to salvage hides from foxes I'd be shooting a heavier bullet that's more likely to blow through a fox instead of hitting at a higher rate of speed and fragmenting. I'm thinking you'll probably blow foxes apart with the 40 grain bullets more often than not. But that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
 
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I used to use heavies but now i’ll be using 40s out of a 222 that I chrono’d at 3400. A lot of reading says the nosler 40s are the ticket, I’ve yet to see for myself. The 12th I’ll be testing em on coyotes hopefully!
 
Originally Posted By: Tracker0721I used to use heavies but now i’ll be using 40s out of a 222 that I chrono’d at 3400. A lot of reading says the nosler 40s are the ticket, I’ve yet to see for myself. The 12th I’ll be testing em on coyotes hopefully!

I would be interested in the results, as I shoot a .222 as well, and am still searching for the best "fur friendly" round.
 
53grain Hornady VMax Superformance out of my 3 different AR-15 night setups and never a problem with fur damage.....

I don’t reload and buy off the shelf, shooting 58grain VMax out of my .243.

I like straight on day shots to put the bullet dead on the chest and no exit.
 
Originally Posted By: wolftrapperOriginally Posted By: Tracker0721I used to use heavies but now i’ll be using 40s out of a 222 that I chrono’d at 3400. A lot of reading says the nosler 40s are the ticket, I’ve yet to see for myself. The 12th I’ll be testing em on coyotes hopefully!

I would be interested in the results, as I shoot a .222 as well, and am still searching for the best "fur friendly" round.

I've been reading on the 40 grainers. It seems like if they are ran slower at hornet velocities or faster...at 22-250 velocities there are positive results. If they are ran in between these velocities(3500-3600fps) with a 223 for some reason posters have reported runners and softball size exits. I'll stick with my slower, heavier bullet and have to adjust for hold over for now. I haven't wrecked any furs with the 60 gr vmax yet and have had anywhere from no visual entry and exit holes to no visual entry holes with quarter to fifty cent size exit holes a d DRT every time. I just wanted a flatter shooting load that dose the same. I don't believe it's possible with the 223.

I just get tired of blowing fist size holes in pelts. Some day I'm going to wreck a nice bobcat because I wanted a faster, flatter round.
 
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Most years I do some bullet testing in the off season/PM convention(I hunt for a week there) where saving fur isn't a big deal plus I won't be hunting there when the pelts are prime. I also try bullets during the season but they only get one chance and I can sew pelts very well.

Try the 40gr NBT give it a shot, You only get one bobcat in WI and not every year so don't use it when you have a bobcat tag in your pocket until you have used it a while and have confidence in it, you shouldn't have it in your pocket very long as they come in pretty easy in WI. I spent a few years trapping in NW WI. Pick up a couple bobcat sized road kill coons and test bullets in them, they are about the right size.

If you just have coyotes on your mind you might want to try the 52gr Speer FB HP also, I use it in most of my coyote hunting guns, the 40gr NBT's in only one.
 
The 40gr Vmax and NBT work great for me at 3650fps. Equally devistating lightning quick kills as my 17Remington. Also probably similar shot placement considerations, not for the spray 'n pray shooter, don't expect magic with gut shots, a direct hit to the ball joint might splash, etc. But it works great with decent shot placement and rarely/never an exit. NBT has a higher chance of exit with the solid base vs Vmax.

There's some 40gr haters here that have been really vocal or repeating myths that 40gr won't stabilize in a 8 or 9 twist barrel. They do and accuracy is usually great.

They do lose some effectiveness from a shorter (and slower) 16" AR15 barrel so consider that.
 
The only experience I have had is with the 53gr vmax. I think I had one that blew up and made a huge hole, but I can't remember losing any coyotes.
 
Originally Posted By: AWSMost years I do some bullet testing in the off season/PM convention(I hunt for a week there) where saving fur isn't a big deal plus I won't be hunting there when the pelts are prime. I also try bullets during the season but they only get one chance and I can sew pelts very well.

Try the 40gr NBT give it a shot, You only get one bobcat in WI and not every year so don't use it when you have a bobcat tag in your pocket until you have used it a while and have confidence in it, you shouldn't have it in your pocket very long as they come in pretty easy in WI. I spent a few years trapping in NW WI. Pick up a couple bobcat sized road kill coons and test bullets in them, they are about the right size.

If you just have coyotes on your mind you might want to try the 52gr Speer FB HP also, I use it in most of my coyote hunting guns, the 40gr NBT's in only one.

I shot one bob in WI...with my 10 gauge and number 5's.

I don't put in for the draw here any more because I go to AZ every year and call in 1/2 per visit on a normal hunting trip. AZ cats are better looking with spots all over them. WI cats are normally dark brown on their top side and no spots. Kinda dull looking.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGThe 40gr Vmax and NBT work great for me at 3650fps. Equally devistating lightning quick kills as my 17Remington. Also probably similar shot placement considerations, not for the spray 'n pray shooter, don't expect magic with gut shots, a direct hit to the ball joint might splash, etc. But it works great with decent shot placement and rarely/never an exit. NBT has a higher chance of exit with the solid base vs Vmax.

There's some 40gr haters here that have been really vocal or repeating myths that 40gr won't stabilize in a 8 or 9 twist barrel. They do and accuracy is usually great.

They do lose some effectiveness from a shorter (and slower) 16" AR15 barrel so consider that.


40 gr NBT cloverleaf in my LTR with 27 gr of benchmark.
 
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Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGThe 40gr Vmax and NBT work great for me at 3650fps. Equally devistating lightning quick kills as my 17Remington. Also probably similar shot placement considerations, not for the spray 'n pray shooter, don't expect magic with gut shots, a direct hit to the ball joint might splash, etc. But it works great with decent shot placement and rarely/never an exit. NBT has a higher chance of exit with the solid base vs Vmax.

There's some 40gr haters here that have been really vocal or repeating myths that 40gr won't stabilize in a 8 or 9 twist barrel. They do and accuracy is usually great.

They do lose some effectiveness from a shorter (and slower) 16" AR15 barrel so consider that.


Good to hear. My gun cloverleaves 40 gr NBT. Muzzel velocity I'm guessing is around 3600fps. You say lightning quick kills...I'm guessing out mean drop where they stand?
 
Originally Posted By: Dultimatpredator
Good to hear. My gun cloverleaves 40 gr NBT. Muzzle velocity I'm guessing is around 3600fps. You say lightning quick kills...I'm guessing out mean drop where they stand?
I mean dead before they hit the ground. Ka-POW!

Here is one of my kills (YouTube) with a 223 40gr Vmax @3650 fps. Distance was a little over 100 yards. This coyote came in quick before I was ready and stopped and actually sat down looking at my decoy for over a minute. Never seen that before or since. He was also eyeballing me directly behind and uphill from the ecall/decoy. I was fidgeting trying to decide to shoot or film. You can see how effective a 40gr can be.

My 6DTI does the same thing except their whole body shudders much more violently at impact. 6DTI does it better.
 
I've seen that video before...DRT! How dose the bullet do on broadside shots? The reason I ask is I've had some really destructive bullets with shot placements directly into the chest with the same results as your video... 70 gr NBT loaded at 3650 out of my 243. If I hit a rib broadside it puts holes through them I can clap in. With that 243 load i have a 50/50 chance it seems like whether or not the coyote will have a fist size hole in it...when aiming broadside taking bow type shots The 60 gr vmax in my 223 you can't see the entry hole but the exits on broadside shots are quarter size to fifty cent size. I shot a yote head on at a 125 yards with the vmax and I don't think it exited. I had to look for a while before I found the entry hole. It was just above its eye. The only blood came from its nostrils.

99.9% of my shots are broadside.
 
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40gr Vmax never exits coyotes. Entries are usually hard to find. Actual shoulder blade shots (scapula) work great no splash. The only nasty entry wounds I've seen are a direct ball joint hit and only a couple times on odd angles. Still killed them DRT. Any other bullet would probably do the same damage on a direct ball joint hit.
 
Sweet think I'm going to try it...I will never get a shot over 250 yards here in WI so that means ill sight an inch high at 100 yards and be minute of coyote to about 275 yards. At three hundred it drops 5.5" I just have to aim at the top of is back broadside and I should be golden. I'll save the 60 grainers for my POF since 40's don't group as tight out of it and also ill use the 60's when going to AZ for longer distance. I would assume the posters that get runners and splashes are from poor shots an blame it on the bullet. That's why I always liked my 243...close counts. No matter where you hit it with the 70 gr NBT it goes down.
 
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