400 dollar optic?
- Thread starter Huntman
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RePete
New member
Originally Posted By: liliysdadHard to argue with a Leupold VX-2 or VX-3. They are a known quantity, from a manufacturer that produces, and stands behind quality gear.
Another solid, proven optic in that range is the Zeiss Conquest 3-9. Again, a simple, proven piece of glass from an established manufacturer.
For $400, and a winter elk trip, I would stick to simple, and proven.
Good advise^^^^^^^
6X42 VX3.....bullet (and idiot) proof....best "hunting" scope made IMO....
Another solid, proven optic in that range is the Zeiss Conquest 3-9. Again, a simple, proven piece of glass from an established manufacturer.
For $400, and a winter elk trip, I would stick to simple, and proven.
Good advise^^^^^^^
6X42 VX3.....bullet (and idiot) proof....best "hunting" scope made IMO....
Originally Posted By: liliysdadProbably the best deal going right now in you price range, for a hunting scope.
Leupold VX-3 CDS
I think I just bought the last one ! I had accidently put two in my cart and a error popped up saying only one left in stock. Needless to say I quickly submitted my order
Leupold VX-3 CDS
I think I just bought the last one ! I had accidently put two in my cart and a error popped up saying only one left in stock. Needless to say I quickly submitted my order
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Originally Posted By: pahntr760Originally Posted By: CatkillerNobody else has mentioned it but I like the Nikon Monarch myself.
Probably because it doesn't hold a candle to the VX-3, 2 or the Conquest.
Pretty much this.
Nikon makes nothing that isnt made better by someone else.
Probably because it doesn't hold a candle to the VX-3, 2 or the Conquest.
Pretty much this.
Nikon makes nothing that isnt made better by someone else.
Originally Posted By: 204farrBlack diamond are the best bang for you buck
What do you base this on? I had never heard of them, so I looked them up. I see a company who can barely manage a website, selling three models of what they call a "L/R Tactical" scope for prices that rival scopes from known makers.
They tout "European High Definition glass," but the price they are selling these at makes that an obvious lie. I see absolutely no photos of the reticles offered, let alone subtensions, etc. They offer only .25 MOA adjustments, with no options for Mils, no zero stop, no mention of SFP vs FFP, and all this is depicted in only a couple of pretty poor photos.
I think I will pass.
What do you base this on? I had never heard of them, so I looked them up. I see a company who can barely manage a website, selling three models of what they call a "L/R Tactical" scope for prices that rival scopes from known makers.
They tout "European High Definition glass," but the price they are selling these at makes that an obvious lie. I see absolutely no photos of the reticles offered, let alone subtensions, etc. They offer only .25 MOA adjustments, with no options for Mils, no zero stop, no mention of SFP vs FFP, and all this is depicted in only a couple of pretty poor photos.
I think I will pass.
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Dixiedog1
Active member
Originally Posted By: pahntr760Originally Posted By: CatkillerNobody else has mentioned it but I like the Nikon Monarch myself.
Probably because it doesn't hold a candle to the VX-3, 2 or the Conquest.
I think the Monarch beats the Leupys ....the Conquest is better optically but clarity and turrets on the Monarch are better than a VX2 or 3. $.02
Probably because it doesn't hold a candle to the VX-3, 2 or the Conquest.
I think the Monarch beats the Leupys ....the Conquest is better optically but clarity and turrets on the Monarch are better than a VX2 or 3. $.02
Originally Posted By: Dixiedog1Originally Posted By: pahntr760Originally Posted By: CatkillerNobody else has mentioned it but I like the Nikon Monarch myself.
Probably because it doesn't hold a candle to the VX-3, 2 or the Conquest.
I think the Monarch beats the Leupys ....the Conquest is better optically but clarity and turrets on the Monarch are better than a VX2 or 3. $.02
I knew there was one guy somewhere who thought this..
I have yet to see anything that Nikon makes that I would call better than a comparable Leupold, and most definitely not a Conquest. Nikon glass used to be pretty decent...but got left behind years ago. As for their turrets, I suppose their capped models are OK...not much to really screw up on those, but their target and "tactical" exposed turrets are ludicrously vague and mushy, too easy to turn, and still dont offer Zero Stop in any form or fashion. Their refusal to drop their gimmick BDC reticle, and offer some usable choices along with matching turrets in MIL and MOA makes them a non starter.
Nikon has become all but irrelevant in the market place, and if they don't bring some new blood into the product line, this is unlikely to change.
Probably because it doesn't hold a candle to the VX-3, 2 or the Conquest.
I think the Monarch beats the Leupys ....the Conquest is better optically but clarity and turrets on the Monarch are better than a VX2 or 3. $.02
I knew there was one guy somewhere who thought this..
I have yet to see anything that Nikon makes that I would call better than a comparable Leupold, and most definitely not a Conquest. Nikon glass used to be pretty decent...but got left behind years ago. As for their turrets, I suppose their capped models are OK...not much to really screw up on those, but their target and "tactical" exposed turrets are ludicrously vague and mushy, too easy to turn, and still dont offer Zero Stop in any form or fashion. Their refusal to drop their gimmick BDC reticle, and offer some usable choices along with matching turrets in MIL and MOA makes them a non starter.
Nikon has become all but irrelevant in the market place, and if they don't bring some new blood into the product line, this is unlikely to change.
Originally Posted By: liliysdadOriginally Posted By: Dixiedog1Originally Posted By: pahntr760Originally Posted By: CatkillerNobody else has mentioned it but I like the Nikon Monarch myself.
Probably because it doesn't hold a candle to the VX-3, 2 or the Conquest.
I think the Monarch beats the Leupys ....the Conquest is better optically but clarity and turrets on the Monarch are better than a VX2 or 3. $.02
I knew there was one guy somewhere who thought this..
I have yet to see anything that Nikon makes that I would call better than a comparable Leupold, and most definitely not a Conquest. Nikon glass used to be pretty decent...but got left behind years ago. As for their turrets, I suppose their capped models are OK...not much to really screw up on those, but their target and "tactical" exposed turrets are ludicrously vague and mushy, too easy to turn, and still dont offer Zero Stop in any form or fashion. Their refusal to drop their gimmick BDC reticle, and offer some usable choices along with matching turrets in MIL and MOA makes them a non starter.
Nikon has become all but irrelevant in the market place, and if they don't bring some new blood into the product line, this is unlikely to change.
Summed up exactly how I feel.
The m-223 and m-308 have absolutely horrible turrets. No comparison to a Leupold CDS or M-1 or Target turrets. Graduated reticles must be in a FFP, they're silly otherwise. And the Nikon BDC is about as bad as they come. Their CS is still poor, and they don't support products after the sale. No reticle or turret changes, etc. They make good cameras though...
Probably because it doesn't hold a candle to the VX-3, 2 or the Conquest.
I think the Monarch beats the Leupys ....the Conquest is better optically but clarity and turrets on the Monarch are better than a VX2 or 3. $.02
I knew there was one guy somewhere who thought this..
I have yet to see anything that Nikon makes that I would call better than a comparable Leupold, and most definitely not a Conquest. Nikon glass used to be pretty decent...but got left behind years ago. As for their turrets, I suppose their capped models are OK...not much to really screw up on those, but their target and "tactical" exposed turrets are ludicrously vague and mushy, too easy to turn, and still dont offer Zero Stop in any form or fashion. Their refusal to drop their gimmick BDC reticle, and offer some usable choices along with matching turrets in MIL and MOA makes them a non starter.
Nikon has become all but irrelevant in the market place, and if they don't bring some new blood into the product line, this is unlikely to change.
Summed up exactly how I feel.
The m-223 and m-308 have absolutely horrible turrets. No comparison to a Leupold CDS or M-1 or Target turrets. Graduated reticles must be in a FFP, they're silly otherwise. And the Nikon BDC is about as bad as they come. Their CS is still poor, and they don't support products after the sale. No reticle or turret changes, etc. They make good cameras though...
Tim Neitzke
New member
Originally Posted By: liliysdadOriginally Posted By: 204farrBlack diamond are the best bang for you buck
What do you base this on? I had never heard of them, so I looked them up. I see a company who can barely manage a website, selling three models of what they call a "L/R Tactical" scope for prices that rival scopes from known makers.
They tout "European High Definition glass," but the price they are selling these at makes that an obvious lie. I see absolutely no photos of the reticles offered, let alone subtensions, etc. They offer only .25 MOA adjustments, with no options for Mils, no zero stop, no mention of SFP vs FFP, and all this is depicted in only a couple of pretty poor photos.
I think I will pass.
Burris maybe ?
What do you base this on? I had never heard of them, so I looked them up. I see a company who can barely manage a website, selling three models of what they call a "L/R Tactical" scope for prices that rival scopes from known makers.
They tout "European High Definition glass," but the price they are selling these at makes that an obvious lie. I see absolutely no photos of the reticles offered, let alone subtensions, etc. They offer only .25 MOA adjustments, with no options for Mils, no zero stop, no mention of SFP vs FFP, and all this is depicted in only a couple of pretty poor photos.
I think I will pass.
Burris maybe ?
Tim Neitzke
New member
I went and looked , it is Black Diamond Optics.
Looked at the dealer list, know one of them. I'll have to get more info.
Looked at the dealer list, know one of them. I'll have to get more info.
204farr
Active member
I have 10 Black Diamond scopes.Thay have replaced 3 leupold vx3 4.5x15x40mm ,A zeiss conquest 3-12x56mm , 2 Nikon 4-12x40mm ,3 vortex viper HSLR 1st FFP.The last one was a bushnell elite tactical 6-24x50 mm FFP
I my opinion the HD glass (european glass) is far better on the Black Diamonds than these models
no zerro stop , mill line retical 2FP 15 Moa per rotation 1/4 MOA Clicks
I did do a tracking test on my 6x47 lapua every inch on a 4x8 ply wood came back into cent with a 3/8 MAO group size 2 shot for zerro and 3 after the box test.
I have also ran one on my edge with 300 gr berger out to over 1 mile and sevral impatcs on my 36 plate .I have ben running thees opticks for about 2 years my only complain is they only have about 65 Moa up travel and the parallex knobs are stiff.
there built like a taink and have an illuminated retical.
we have put 60 or 70 on guns and I did have one come back because the illuminated retical did not work. They gave me a new one in less than a day and we put it on and away we went
The price point is set Low to try and entice people to try something new and will be going up shortly
I my opinion the HD glass (european glass) is far better on the Black Diamonds than these models
no zerro stop , mill line retical 2FP 15 Moa per rotation 1/4 MOA Clicks
I did do a tracking test on my 6x47 lapua every inch on a 4x8 ply wood came back into cent with a 3/8 MAO group size 2 shot for zerro and 3 after the box test.
I have also ran one on my edge with 300 gr berger out to over 1 mile and sevral impatcs on my 36 plate .I have ben running thees opticks for about 2 years my only complain is they only have about 65 Moa up travel and the parallex knobs are stiff.
there built like a taink and have an illuminated retical.
we have put 60 or 70 on guns and I did have one come back because the illuminated retical did not work. They gave me a new one in less than a day and we put it on and away we went
The price point is set Low to try and entice people to try something new and will be going up shortly
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Very typical for such glowing reports on unknown optics to come from those selling them. Another well known tactic is the "the price will increase soon" drivel. European glass? Exactly where are these scopes made? European glass really doesn't mean a lot...it could be Schott, or it might be Alfredo's Glass-O-Rama. Shrouding the origin of the scope, and its components, in mystery does nothing but cast a shadow of doubt over the entire operation.
A website plucked straight from 1996, with dubious spec claims, and little to no real world reports does not instill a level of confidence when there are so many good scopes on the market from known makers, for the same or less money.
A website plucked straight from 1996, with dubious spec claims, and little to no real world reports does not instill a level of confidence when there are so many good scopes on the market from known makers, for the same or less money.
204farr
Active member
just got an email back
"super sharp clear by using European schott glass(zeiss Designed not made by zeiss kyocera(yashica) under license from zeiss )
The glass is then imported and Assembled in china using a T6061 Aluminum forging. After assembly and testing .the scopes are impored to Black Opticks based out of roy utah."
"super sharp clear by using European schott glass(zeiss Designed not made by zeiss kyocera(yashica) under license from zeiss )
The glass is then imported and Assembled in china using a T6061 Aluminum forging. After assembly and testing .the scopes are impored to Black Opticks based out of roy utah."
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