6.8 SPC vs 6.5 Grendel

P

pyscodog

Active member
I haven't done much research on these two calibers, but both seem very interesting. Thought maybe after the holidays I'd start saving for a new upper for my RRA and both of these seemed interesting. I would mostly use it for pred.and paper, maybe a day or two in the field for deer. Just curious about everyones thoughts on the two. Just sorta "Kickin Tires".

Thanks- Pyscodog
 
pyscodog
I have a 6.8 and i love it but the 6.5 Grendel is more power , its more like the 270
they both will do what u need them for so either one would be great ,
the 6.8 is harder to find brass for than others but other than that its great,
 
Quote:
pyscodog
the 6.8 is harder to find brass for than others but other than that its great,


On the contrary.
The 6.8 is much easier to find brass for than the 6.5. And exponentially cheaper.

33bucks / 100 = 6.8
vs
100bucks /100 = 6.5.

Remington is making factory rounds for the 6.8 as well.

I don't own a 6.8, but do own a 6mmWOA which is a 6.8 necked down to 6mm. Love the round.
 
Quote:
Quote:
pyscodog
the 6.8 is harder to find brass for than others but other than that its great,


On the contrary.
The 6.8 is much easier to find brass for than the 6.5. And exponentially cheaper.

33bucks / 100 = 6.8
vs
100bucks /100 = 6.5.

Remington is making factory rounds for the 6.8 as well.

I don't own a 6.8, but do own a 6mmWOA which is a 6.8 necked down to 6mm. Love the round.



have u been to a gun store to get brass for the 6.8 of a gun show ??
most of the time u have to order them online or have our gunstore oder them , and most of the time the store will only order the remington brass (they use the large riffle primers ) not as good of brass,
 
I ordered 1k rounds from SSAarmory at the beginning of the year.

As to the 6.5 though. My point is.. You can at least find 6.8 brass. Unless you go to alexander arms or buy $1.00/round Lapua you're hosed. Midway had remington Brass on hand not too long ago. They still have SSA brass.
 
First of all, you have to be careful of all the crap that you wade through when dealing with these two callibers - from both sides. I don't know why there is such a polarizing affect between the two "camps". They both have their pluses and minuses. It is usually an either / or argument. I don't know why they both can not be enbraced as viable cartridges for the AR platform. Most of it stems from the perception that one or the other would / should be a preferable military cartridge. Neither one will become one. I don't care who says what and what kind of letters they have in their name - it aint gonna happen.

As for the grendel brass - you can get AA stamped brass from AA for $58 per 100, and it is made by Lapua for AA - AA gets it straight from Lapua, no middle man or distributors to mark it up - excellent brass. The Lapua stamped brass is $98 per 100, but that is because of the Lapua distributor who marks up Lapua brass at their whim. As far as I'm concerned, the Labua distributor is shooting himself in the foot. I chose the 6.5 Grendel for several reasons, but one is because you can fire form the grendel from 7.62 x 39 brass.

I think the 6.8 is a very capable round, and I plan on getting one (this being laid off thing really sucks) but the grendel seemed like the better and most logical choice, and I've always been a fan of the 6.5 cal. The one thing about the 6.8 I don't like, you got several companies with different twist barrels, and some guys pushing the 6.8 above and beyond the original designed limits. Then all of a sudden, someone comes up with this revolutionary idea, that the secret to incresed performance is in the twist of the barrel, so you can load it hotter without increased pressure signs. Please...There are several people exceeding pressures of the bolt, yet, when confronted with it, they stubbornly deny it. Yet, they redily admit, if you put ammo A through barrel B, you can and will get dangerously high pressures. The main reason I'm holding off on the 6.8 (besides the lack of a job thing), is to wait and see what eventually happens - for some reason, alot of the manufacturers don't agree on the set up of this cartridge - even though it is SAAMI approved - I think their are alot of people dangerously hot-rodding this cartridge - trying to make it something it is not. Another thing that has me wondering is, the cartridge is called the 6.8 Remington SPC (special purpose cartridge) and yet, Remington does not chamber it in their R-15 - doesn't make sense to me. But then, the 6.5 camp makes some unrealistic claims as well. I mean, comparing the 6.5 to the 308 - give me a break. Some people don't like how Bill Alexander has kept a tight control on the cartridge, but yet, it hasn't suffered from the same growth problems that the 6.8 has. And he has achieved excellent growth without the financial backing of multiple large companies like the 6.8 has.

They are both very capable small game cartridges for deer and smaller. I'll even go as far as say they could be viable cartridges for mid-size black bear and hogs with the right bullets. With that said, they both have taken elk, which I consider reckless - but that is my opinion. I could care less what other people think, but in my opinion, anyone that takes an elk with either of these cartridges at a range in excess of 50 yards is foolish (and yes, I know about both cartridges taking elk at extreme ranges, the Grendel at over 500 yards). I don't care who you are, I'll say it to your face that you are foolish and reckless, and obviously don't respect the animal! Both camps will try and argue that it is shot placement that counts, which I agree, but when hunting elk in deep canyon country, how often does that perfect shot come up. I've yet to get that "perfect shot" - that's why I believe in a bigger bullet with far more energy than either of these cartridges are capable of delivering.

Right now, neither one of these cartridges have readily available ammo. If you want readily available ammo in an AR, get a 223. Both of these cartridges, the ammo for the most part, has to be ordered on line - or roll your own.

For anyone considering one of these two callibers, take some time researching, and take everything with a grain of salt - no, a bucket of salt. Their is ALOT of BS out there. Unfortunatley, you have to wade through it all. Take your time deciding - but not too long - the Obomanation will be taking office soon - and who knows what he'll do. I'm personally happy that BOTH cartridges are out there. I want more! Anything to make the AR platform a "legitimate" hunting rifle is a win - win situation. Because our battle isn't with the anti's (yes - we will always be fighting them - no matter what - you can't reason with idiots) our fight is with public opinion and the "good ol boy" hunter that thinks the only good hunting rifle is a bolt action. We need to educate the uninformed - hunters and non hunters alike! Accept both calibers - I have.
 
BM is talking about us at www.68forums.com
Personally I just don't like running with a restrictor plate under the carb. Pick the wrong barrel and chamber and thats what you're doing. The FBI is loading the 85gr Barnes to 60000 psi with the new chamber specs and getting over 3000 fps out of them. We all know they're just a bunch of back woods hicks that don't know anything so they must have read the data from all the test that have been done in the past 3 years and seen all of the major manufactures following the lead of the know nothing custom shops that are breaking the ground and decided to give her a whirl. Now you got the Border patrol looking for 10000 new rifles, the DOD doing more test on the 6.8 and ammo manufacturing plants popping up in places like Pakistan and the Philippines, yep the 6.8 is going backwards fast.
The Pressure Trace test proves the pressure in the slower twist barrel is lower, if you don't understand graphs and charts and how strain gauges work it may be hard to understand that but it proves it without a doubt just read the 50 page report. By lowering pressure in the barrels we can increase the powder charge and gain velocity while keeping the pressure below the 58k limit. Pushing the 6.8 to higher velocities is about increasing the terminal effective range of the cartridge for combat.
We have gained over 300 fps since 2004. Most bullets need to travel at 1700 fps plus to expand reliably so in 2004 that meant 275 yds was the limit, now 300 fps faster makes that limit 400yds or it means that a 8" barrel will give the same performance that a 20" would have 3 years ago because you lose 100fps with every 4" of barrel, terminal effective range with a 8" barrel is now 275yds.

Or the main complaint about the 5.56 was the effective stopping power. the 6.8 expands 40% more energy into the target than the 5.56 does. If the energy goal was 1000 the 5.56 would need a 20" barrel to get that amount of energy.
ever tried to clear a house or ride in a humvee with a 20" barrel?
Same deal, with the velocities we are getting now a 6.8 rifle with a 8" barrel is as effective as a 6.8 with a 20" barrel was 3 years ago and a 8" 6.8 barrel has 40% more energy than a 20" 5.56.
The 6.8 is about putting a better weapon in the hands of the guys fighting.

On a lighter note HTR and his clients kill several hogs a week down in Goliad with the 6.8, I've killed a few there myself. Come to think of it I am the guy who shot the elk at 372 yards with a 20" 6.8 and a Nosler Accubond traveling 2950fps but I had to wait 2 minutes for the elk to step forward with that left front uncovering the heart and providing me with that PERFECT shot. He took 6 whole shaky steps after that. Shot a pretty nice mulie 2 years ago too.
The 6.8 seems to put them down a little more humainly than a bow and I'm getting to old to sneak up on critters.

Now, BM with that high paying position you have what is that inside information you have that the rest of us industry guys and the military doesn't know about?
 
I won't say much and I don't consider myself an AR expert by any means but it is my understanding that with the base diameter of the 6.8 and 6.5 you should not exceed 50KSI and if the Feebs are going 60KSI, it would seem to be a major mistake. Some agent might get a facefull of bolt.

Saying they should know what they're doing doesn't impress me. They have done the 10mm Lite and then gone to the .40S&W.

Either round with proper slugs is a significant improvement over the 5.56mm. Don
 
Maybe the first thing you need to decide is what you will use the gun for…….in my case I’d have to lean toward the 6.5... to me it looks like the better choice for hunting in the area I live in.

That said if I was going to build my ideal SBR it would be the 6.8 without a doubt or if I was lucky enough to be in a place where I hunted hogs a lot then I’d look at the 6.8 too.

I strongly considered going with one of these two on my last AR but I don’t reload, I simply don’t have the hours in my life to do that (right now) and I wanted something to double as my calling rifle and my defensive weapon, so I put together another 5.56 and for the other hunting I’ll have to still with my bigger bolt guns for now.
 
I've blown 3 bolts behind a Grendel until I bought a 9310 bolt then I just blew the extractor off of it.
According to a military advisor that attends most of the test and the owner of SSA there has not been 1 single bolt breakage during any military test session, not even the endurance test.
The military conducted a test after nam that show all 5.56 bolts fatigue around 5-6000 rounds and recommend replacing them at that interval.
Most bolts that do break, break at the cam pin hole which means the front half of the bolt stays in the barrel extension and keeps the case in the chamber the carrier travels reward like normal. If the bolt does break at the lugs then the gas finds the weakest point(the extractor) breaks it off and the gases travel out the bottom of the mag so it is not a good idea to place a hand or arm under the mag.
Bill Alexander put a 52000 psi limit on Grendel bolts because the bolt face of the Grendel is larger than the 5.56 or 6.8. the pressure limit on the 6.8 is 58000.
I shot 130 rounds in a 3 gun event that were loaded to 70000 just to test a bolt, that was 2 years ago and I am still using that same bolt and swapping it back and forth between 3 rifles and most of my loads are 58-60k.
 

I went through the same decision process about a year ago.
I can afford either, and I do hand load, so ammo cost, or
component cost, is not much of a concern. What swung the
decision to the 6.8 SPC was the case design. The Grendel
case, has only a slight taper to it(.013"), which gives me
concern for reliable operation, given any crude build up
in the chamber. I wanted my AR-15, in either of these
chambers to do double duty, as both a cold weather coyote
rifle, and a Home Defense Rifle. Now if it choked during
coyote hunting, I would be mildly annoyed, but if it choked
in the middle of the night, with bad guys in my home, I
might be dead. I read too many accounts of uppers not
cycling reliably with Grendels. The 6.8 SPC has had
it's own issues with continuing changes to barrels, and
chambers, to get more out of the cartridge. But I am
not too concerned about getting more out of the cartridge,
since my coyote shooting is under 200 yards, and bad
guys will be under 20 yards. I did want reliable
operation, so that trumped anything the Grendel had
over the 6.8 SPC, performance wise. So, I purchased
a RRA upper, and never looked back. Someday I might
get a Grendel, but a 6mm WOA(6.8 SPC necked down to 6mm)
is much more likely to happen. The only word of warning
I have, from my experience, is get good magazines! Cheap
magazines, like C-Products, are hit and miss at best.
I have Barrett Magazines, and I will trust them with
my life. I also have C-Products magazines, but they will
only get used for range time, and maybe some non-critical hunting.

One other note, if one is really hung up on speed, forget
the Grendel, or the 6.8 SPC, and get a WSSM upper. You
will want to be contacting Mike, at D-Tech, if you decide
to go that route.

Squeeze
 
I think you made your point of being reckless, far better than I could. And using the FBI and Border Patrol - come on - even you can do better than that. Funny how I kept my post civil, never mentioned any names - and you jumped right in. It just amazes me how this always turns into a pi$$ing match. Snow storm just stopped - I'm going hunting.
 
Any one that dont like their 6.8 can send them to me , ill make a great home for them lol
There is many deer so they will alway have a use /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I shoot a .223 Bushmaster, and would like a larger cal. upper. I also shoot a 6.5-284, so I have plenty of brass and bullets for a 6.5, if the brass can be worked. My goal would be to for it to be a hunting rifle up to hogs at moderate ranges. Am I on target, or will the AR-15 not support the two?
Jim
 
Sorry Jim,

284 brass is way too long for the AR15. You can call Mike Milli, aka Dtech here on the PM's, and speak to him about an AR15 in 6.5 WSSM. It uses the 25WSSM brass necked to 6.5 and should do an outstanding job on hogs, deer and small bear.
 
6.5 G vrs 6.8 SPC- you mentioned paper- if you are serious about paper and distance I would go with the 6.5G. Critters can be had with a 17 HMR - that depends on placement. So either will work for that. Keep center. JHG
 
Let me restate about critters- I agree the bigger the critter- the bigger the need. I use a 7 STW or a trusty 3006 for big deer and elk. The 17 mentioned was for little critters. For paper you want the best wind bucking load.
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top