A Few Thoughts On California Mountain Lions

CalCoyote

CalCoyote

Member
As most of you well know, the wise citizens of California voted to place mountain lions on the endangered species list a few years back thereby making any future hunting of them impossible.

Up until the time of the ban, California mountain lions viewed humans as predators because there was a hunting season. They had a fear of humans and there were virtually no reported cases of mountain lion attack. Let me tell you of a couple of things that have occurred since the mountain lion ban:

My wife's sister was living in Coarsegold (a small mountain community) and her son goes to the local elementary school. Every day when he got home he always had the same routine of going into the kitchen and grabbing some cookies and then going out into the back yard to play. This was his routine. He did it EVERY day. One day he came home from school and didn't feel well and wanted to lay down. A few minutes later his mom (my sister-in-law) looked out through the kitchen window into the fenced back yard and saw a mountain lion in the far corner in a crouched position. On any other week day her son would have been out there playing. To me is obvious that the cat had been watching the yard and had learned his routine. It was just the goodness of God that allowed my nephew to NOT be in the yard that day. One other detail: My sister-in-law and her son live a residential area (Indian Lakes) with other homes near by not on a farm in the boondocks.

They had two Rotweiler dogs that are kept in separate pens. Both of them are full grown and over a hundred pounds. I know this sounds like a fairy tale and most of you will NOT believe this, but about two months after the incident in the back yard, my sister-in-law arrived home one night and went out back to feed the dogs. She noticed that one of them would not get up to come to the food. Upon closer inspection she found blood (lots of it) and a large serious wound in the intestinal area (the vet had to put the dog to sleep). The vet told them that the wounds were puncture and scratch wounds and were probably from a mountain lion attack. I know it sounds unbelievable that a mountain lion would climb a six foot fence to attack a 110 lb Rotweiler but I swear that I am not making this up.

My brother built a home on his 7 acres he owns at Shaver Lake (A small mountain community at 3000 ft elevation). The other night the man from the neighboring property was driving down the dirt road (driveway) that leads to his home and saw a full grown mountain lion with a freshly killed deer in its mouth dragging it across the road. He said he was amazed at how large the cat was and at how quickly he was able to drag the deer off. Obviously the deer had not been hit by a car because this was a windy twisty road that only the property owners use to access their homes. Because of the curves it is impossible to drive over 15 miles per hour. The deer was not hit by a car. It was killed by the cat

The other day my mom and dad saw a mountain lion in broad day light less than 10 miles out of the city limits of Fresno (population 400,000).

I have another good mountain lion encounter to tell but this post is getting too long so I better cut this off…

I am no prophet but I predict it is only a matter of time until we see a fatality in Central California from a mountain lion. There needs to be a hunting season on these predators to instill the fear of man back in them, not to mention the devastation they are doing to our deer herd.

Calcoyote
 
Calcoyote, I don't know if it's the lost fear of man that is the problem.
I believe there are to many lions and to many people moving into lion country.
Only in recent years have lions been attacking adult humans, before that there were cases of lion attacks on humans, but only children.
The last year lions could be hunted in California state wide was 1971. Government hunters and land owners can still kill a lion if it's a problem lion.
Actually one of the biggest problems is the State government in California.
The animals should be Goverened only by the DFG not the people of the state ( most of who were not even born there). What do city people know about Mt Lions? That's were most of the votes come from.
Many older native born California people have left the State because of what has happened to it over the last 20/30 years and many more want to leave, it's sad.
 
Billy,

You may be right. Maybe it is just urban sprawl but consider this:

Whenever I go into the National Forest and see deer or a bear, they are always nervous and run away. They seem to view me as a predator because they are hunted in the National Forest. However, I can get in my truck and drive into Yosimite National Park or Kings Canyon Natl Park and the animals have little or no fear (they are not hunted and do not view us as predators).

I have gone backpacking in remote regions of Kings Canyon National Park where there are no roads and very few human visitors (magnificent trout fishing in the lakes). Even though the wildlife back there do not see many humans they do not have the fear like wildlife in remote areas of the national forest. One time a friend and I had backpacked into an off-trail lake 10 miles from our car at Road's End in KCNP. On the third night, a mountain lion began to scream on a ridge top above our camp just as it was getting dark. It was a blood curdling scream/squall kind of like a woman screaming. I admit that it put a few shivers up and down my spine because you are not allowed to carry firearms in the national parks and we were over 3 miles from the nearest trail and 10 miles from the nearest road. However, I have spent countless nights in a tent backpacking deep in the woods of the national forest, but I NEVER have had stuff like that happen. I have a few VERY remote spots that I can take you to in KCNP (where bears are not hunted) and almost guarantee you a bear (or two) in our camp that night. But, I can not duplicate those results in the national forest where they are hunted. I have gone to places within the John Muir Wilderness that are known for high bear populations, just to try and see some bears. They are there but they don't come out because they are hunted and this makes them afraid of humans(I think).

Calcoyote
 
This last year a mountain Lion was killed in Down Town San Luis Obispo, no fooling, Down Town.

As I understand the law, it was a State Constitutional Amendment, requiring a 2/3 Majority to undo. I could not believe this thing passed. Too Many city folks

Danny
 
I certainly believe the story about the dog. A friend of mine who lives outside of Republic, Washington heard his dog barking just outside his door then the barks got muffled and he heard a body hit the door and there were sounds of a struggle. He got up and opened the door to see what was going on and when he did a cougar with the guy's dog's head in it's mouth came sprawling into his living room. Randy, the dog's owner, got in a panic and took off his slipper and started hitting the cat over the head with it. The cat finally let go of the dog and ran off.

Randy called the sherriff who told him that the cat had been working his way down the canyon killing a dog every other night. The houses on that road are about 1/2 mile apart. The sherriff shot the cat two nights later at the next house down the road.

Washington protected the cats but when the problems started they lightened up on the laws. When I left there in '97 it was legal to shoot a cougar if the opportunity arose and then immedietely go and buy a tag. I was an OSP engineer for the phone company up there and did a lot of driving around taking field notes. In the course of my travels and while fishing on weekends and in the evenings I saw cougars. Some of them looked huge.

Here in Oregon the citizens voted to stop the hunting of cougars with dogs. This was brought about by the animal rights whackos and passed by city people who neither give a rat's patoo nor are affected by their vote. Now the state has a cougar problem and hunters are being asked to kill some cats. You still have to get a tag and extra tags are available. The state now has to monitor how many cats are in an area and there's a quota on how many can be removed in any given area. If a cat is a real problem the state will hire a guy with dogs to run it down. This is really getting the animal rights people upset. It seems human life isn't nearly as important as the life of a cougar. And I'm wondering how much this is costing the taxpayers.

I don't see this as an urban sprawl issue as much as a cat overpopulation issue. These animals are territorial and with more of them around they're being pushed into the lower lands where people dwell. Livestock, pets and humans then become their prey.
 
It might be time to do the 3 S's. Shoot,shovel,shut-up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Man Danny are your right about native born people wanting to leave or leaving this place. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Too many Kennedy,Shumar,Clinton,Boxer,Feinstein types here for normal folks............. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif
 
I saw my deer hunting area in California go from a success ratio of 45% in 1971 to less than 5% success ratio in 1991. The numbers of lion tracks and sightings had increased dramatically over those 20 years.
 
I have a brother that own a place in a little town in California,called Johnsville. It is in Plumas county and has been in out family since 1928. As a kid, I used to go there every summer with my folks, and have a ball playing out side. We would walk to an old cemetary, and down to our private swimming hole in Jameson Creek. We never even heard of a lion in the area. Now, every day or two, there is a sighting, and there have even been times when his wife could not get out of their car with her son and their German Shepard, because there was a full grown loin resting on their front deck. Even driving her full sized Blazer onto the lawn and honking the horn woud not scare the lion away. Earlier this Summer, his neighbor had dinner reservatins at a resteraunt in town, and a lion and a black bear were fighting in the street in front of the place. Park rangers had to come and run them off.
My point is that because of this stupid law, they have no fear of humans. We were their only preditors, till they passed these laws, and now, there are no longer any lions still living that have been hunted. As far as they are concerned, they are at the top of the food chain. We need to get these laws changed or there will be a lot more animal, human confrontations.
 
Outlawing the hunting of lions is like telling gangbangers, thieves, thugs and bullys that the general population can no longer legally protect themselves or their property. It would only embolden them as it has the lions. The lions can now strut around your home and sleep in the hammock in your yard if they wish.
 
Quote:
It might be time to do the 3 S's. Shoot,shovel,shut-up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Man Danny are your right about native born people wanting to leave or leaving this place. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Too many Kennedy,Shumar,Clinton,Boxer,Feinstein types here for normal folks............. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif


Ding, correct. There are so many screwed up laws and ordinances here that that's the only way you can protect yourself, your animals or your property (from man or beast).
 
I moved out of California back in '74 and have never regretted it. I went to Juneau, Alaska and was there for 15 years before coming back to the lower 48. I will admit there are some things I miss but most of those things have changed and not for the better. Oregon and Washington are also on a downhill slide. It's funny......People have fled California for Arizona, Oregon, Alaska and Washington and when they get to the new destination they want to make it just like California. Up here there was a bumper sticker that read, "Don't Californicate Oregon." Too late.
 
pk1,

I have bad news for you with regard to Californication. My wife and I are looking REAL hard at moving to Oregon. We are going to be spending a week up there this January looking around for a place to move. I realize folks from Oregon don't appreciate this but, well hey, I was orginally born in Carlsbad New Mexico, so I'm not a true Californian. I have fought this desire for years, but the feeling just won't leave. I turned 44 last week and if I am going to make a move, it probably should be now.


Calcoyote
 
CalCoyote...you will be welcome in oregon as you would be here...you have a california address that doesn't mean that your a californian...pk1 is right lot's "o" californian's & other's like puget sound yuppie's..willamette valley yuppie's..seemingly can't wait to screw up there new surrounding's...they are quick to jump to conclusion's & make decision's based on emotion & a dislike for the hunting community...in closing there is a new "yuppie" out there now...to bad there from boise idaho...
 
Its not just Ca.,we have cases of lions killing dogs and domestic cats right on peoples back porches,once they get used to being around populated areas they see pets as food.
 
Dave,

I had always been told all of these horror stories of how Californians are treated when they have gone to Oregon. Well, over the last few years, My family has been there twice. Once to NE Oregon (LeGrand/Baker) and another time to W. Oregon (Eugene). All I can say is that we were VERY warmly received and treated very well.

I am not bitter against California. My situation can be summed up in one sentence: I love the woods and the wilderness. For example: Here in Calif I live within a 30 minute drive of a couple of really good bass fishing lakes where you can catch trophy largemouth, but I will get in my truck and drive 2 hours up into the mountains to the end of a 4wd road, and then get out and hike another 30 minutes into a remote stream to catch an 8" brook trout. I could catch a 3 lb bass within 30 minutes of my driveway but I prefer the woods and mountains. I am just out of place here in Calif.


I know that it is harder to make an income in OR/ID/MT, but why should I live my entire life in an area I don't like just so I can make more money???

CalCoyote
 
More than half of California is populated by non-native born people. The native born will tell you that the reason California is so screwed up is because of all the non-native born people living there. Get rid of the people that moved there from out of state/country and it would be a much different place.
 
Hoorah Weasel! Thats exactly the problem! Too many outsiders came in to CA and created the mess we have today.

"If they call it tourist season, why cant we shoot em?"
 
CalCoyote....I guess you missed the part where I said I moved out of California myself. And my point about people moving somewhere to get away from from the way things are where they live and then try to make the new place just like where they left.

When I first moved to the small town I now live in the postmaster ragged on me for moving here. His first question for me was did I move here from California? I told him it was none of his business. Frankly, I judge people as individuals. Not where they're from. I've lived all over this country, east and west and in China and the Philippines. I spent 15 years in Alaska, too. For the most part I've found people to be pretty nice wherever you go. Oregonians are no different.
 
cal...glad you had good experience's in oregon...baker is about 100 mile's from here...i grew up just north of eugene...what get's californian's for example into trouble is by making remark's like..this is how we do it in california...geez there is not as much to do here as california...& we say or think..then..why don't ya go back if it's so great ?? well you get the point..back on subject your comment's on the cat's only make sense...to bad the rural folk's are paying the price for decision's made in the bay area..LA..san diego..ect..i don't study cat's much..it does seem the population is up across the west..the urban sprawl doesn't help matter's..i spoke with a cattleman a few year's ago from jordan valley oregon...he say's he loses 5-6 colt's every year because of cat's..so do his neighbor's...the reason i mention this is because i was asking him if coyote's were a problem...he was far more concerned about cat's...i'm a year behind you age wise..& can see where your going with this..move if you can life's way to short as it is...
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top