A Question for Atheists

Originally Posted By: Gaznazdiak
You even say that you didn't see it until you learned about it and now you see it everywhere, that is the very essence of confirmation bias.


You missed the part where I said it was almost everywhere mainstream. I don't go walking through the woods and see a goats head on the side of a tree or a pentagram floating through the clouds.

These aren't opinions, satanic and pagan symbolism is documented for everyone to look up. It's not an ink blot test where one person can see one thing and a second person another.
 
Originally Posted By: Gaznazdiak"The Judeo-Christian religions have been devoutly held by millions of believers for thousands of years"

And for thousands of years millions of people were convinced that the world was flat, at the centre of the universe and that the sun revolved around us.
The length of time an idea has been around, or the number of people who believe it is not proof of it's verity.


Gaznaz, you are entitled to your opinion that Lucifer is the true god regardless of how crazy that sounds.

'Faithful even unto death.'
 
You took the words right out of my mouth ADK.

Gaznaz, you might want to stick to practicing your debating and deception with dumb collage kids, you're meowing up the wrong tree here. Even your use of psychology is science with no more proof than any religion.

You are trying to beat around the bush at the fact there is a huge amount satanic/pagan symbolism used by the rich and famous. You are trying to convince me what I see is no more real or intentional than the images of Jesus on a piece of toast or a potato chip. It's not working, and I feel you have made your intentions clear.
 
ADK and Rock Knocker,
Congratulations gentlemen, I stand converted and it is all down to you and your arguments.

When I first entered this conversation I was, as I claimed, an agnostic albeit with atheist leanings.
You have convinced me that this can no longer be the case, and I thank you for opening my eyes. It is now patently clear to me that the only truly open minded path is that of total atheism.

It seems that your concept of being a believer means twisting everything you read to suit your own view: I initially stated that, in my opinion, gods and the concept of the supernatural were invented by ancient man to hide their lack of knowledge and to maintain their control of the populace, and just to be totally clear, this meant I don't believe in any gods.
Yet ADK managed to somehow interpret that fairly clear statement to mean the exact opposite as his comment, "Gaznaz, you are entitled to your opinion that Lucifer is the true god" shows. This is the exact opposite of what I said but better suits what you wish to believe I actually mean.

Rock Knocker suggests " Gaznaz, you might want to stick to practicing your debating and deception with dumb collage kids, you're meowing up the wrong tree here." Obviously I would be better served doing as you suggest, as anyone "dumb" enough to qualify for a university education is also "dumb" enough to be open minded and to accept new ideas and the necessity to change what they believe when confronted with new evidence. They also tend to be able comprehend what they read. The fact that you see facts you don't like as deception says more about your worldview than you realise.

When ADK made the claim, now deleted for some reason, that the World Health Organisation was actually a satanist conspiracy to enslave mankind, and that the United Nations Education, Science and Cultural Organisation was actually another conspiracy to blend all the races together, it rang a small alarm bell but I chose to believe, perhaps as a result of my own confirmation bias, that surely such wild nonsense is merely the product of Hollywood comedies and that you were being facetious, however your further statements and dogged determination to twist my words to suit your agenda lead me to the conclusion that you actually believe this to be fact.
After following the link you posted in your reply to tnshooter your comments and their increasing vitriol came into clearer context.

All I have offered up to now has been documented fact mixed with opinions I have formed from years of studying said facts. I have stated several times that my intention was not to try to convert you away from your fundamentalist ideology and that I respect your right to believe whatever gets you through the day and asked simply that you afford me the same respect. Instead you have chosen to take my comments about my beliefs as a direct attack on your beliefs.
Where I have previously confined my responses to the polite and respectful, your despisal of me and my attempts to explain my beliefs is evident in the growing polemical tone of your responses.

It is now abundantly clear that anything with which you disagree, you see as evil and threatening. It must be truly debilitating to go through life filled with such fear and loathing of your fellow man and anyone or anything different in the world around you.


 
Last edited:
You boys should not read the teachings of Aristotle or Galileo. Too much deep thinking. The source of all knowledge comes from experience.
 
Gaz, your name pops up all over the place with a simple google search, bashing religion included. You don't seem as open minded as you say.

What I have purposed about satanism/paganism can be looked up, that means it's a fact. Your "facts" involve psychology(pseudoscience)terms trying to make my claims sound like me using Bible quotes as proof or me seeing satanic choochoo trains floating in the clouds, deception.

You are the one that should figure out the definition of a confirmation bias a little better, but in reality I think you are a smart educated person that knows what they are doing, it's just not going to work on me.

Faithful to the death
 
You must be able to understand my skepticism when a brand new member to this site has most his posts dedicated to explaining away God and trying to make what were obvious and provable use of satanic/pagan symbols as something that can be psychologically explained away instead of being facts as true and meaningful(to those who know) as the alphabet.

Trying to use psychology is a very lucifarian thing to do and trying to make something as true and provable as satanic symbology seem like something I manifested is something commonly satanic trying to cover their steps and deceive the viewer.

There's that old saying "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..."

And while you say you are neutral and very okay with anyone else's beliefs that could also be a form of deception to disarm, which would be tactically employed to cause further confusion.
 
At one time whenever that was all things were new.

What has man ever done that is new.

What color can a man come up with that is new. Never seen before. Not a composite of things known but new.
 
"What I have purposed about satanism/paganism can be looked up, that means it's a fact"

I just looked up the search term "Mickey Mouse Rules The World", guess what, that can be looked up and you get a result. More fact?

https://ewolco1.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/mickey-mouse-rules-the-world/

"Trying to use psychology is a very lucifarian thing to do and trying to make something as true and provable as satanic symbology seem like something I manifested is something commonly satanic trying to cover their steps and deceive the viewer."

One of the earliest things we were taught about the practice of psychology, the study of how the human mind and human behaviours work, is that many will see it as a threat, the fact that you conflate the profession with satanism is ample proof that this is true.

You still persist with the claim that I accused you of "manifesting" these signs you see on the TV and radio. I did not, that is an interpretation all your own. I merely pointed out the fact that you see ordinary, innocent things that way because you want to, because that is a way of shoring up your belief that you are surrounded by threats and conspiracies, and thereby reinforcing the need for your faith.

"And while you say you are neutral and very okay with anyone else's beliefs that could also be a form of deception to disarm, which would be tactically employed to cause further confusion."

Even an innocent statement like saying that I was neutral, you manage to twist into an attempt to fool and confuse you.
This is one of the reasons why in my last comment I stated that although I was originally agnostic your arguments had converted me to full atheism.
If being a "believer" also means spending my life in fear of everything around me and seeing threatening signs wherever I look, that sounds like a very unpleasant way to live. Sort of like a mouse forever on the lookout for the owl.
I would far prefer to live a life where I am free of fear and guilt, where I can enjoy interactions with others without always seeking hidden agendas and plots to confuse and deceive me in their every action and statement.

I am, however, able to appreciate your scepticism over the fact that most of my posts since joining have been on this conversation, and that you would naturally see this as being my main reason for being here, albeit incorrectly. The actual reason is that I find philosophical debate to be more intellectually stimulating than just talking about guns. Don't get me wrong, I love my guns, but there is a very limited amount of philosophical stimulation to be had when discussing them.

You must realise that for someone such as myself, raised and educated to believe only in that for which there is easily repeated experimental proof, and to treat as mere theorising anything that is not able to be proven, the belief in theology is something I cannot understand. Faced with something I cannot understand and possessing an empirical mindset, I feel compelled to investigate it.
When I read ADK's wild nonsense that the World Health Organisation is really a satanist conspiracy to enslave us all, I was hooked. The fact that my interest was then interpreted as yet another deceptive satanist ploy to confound was disappointing, the conversation could not progress in a meaningful manner and degenerated to verbal stone throwing. On both sides.

Finally, I had the opportunity this morning, Australian time, to share the transcript of our conversation with a colleague who has specialised in Behavioural Psychology. She pointed out to me something I had allowed my enthusiasm for debate to cause me to ignore.
This was the fact that people who hold devout religious beliefs will almost invariably find anything they feel confronts or challenges their belief system to be profoundly disturbing and threatening, even frightening. For my part in causing you such disturbance, I feel the need to apologise as that was not my intent, even though I doubt you will believe that coming from someone such as myself.
 
Wrong. Just because you can look it up does not make it a fact. According to the great philosophers, that only proves a thought. To make it a fact you have to prove it and then attempt to disprove it. And only then determine if it is a fact.

You and noone else can disprove the Bible as fact or fiction. Galileo believed that the Bible was correct. He also believed that the proof was in your everyday surroundings. His view was that there were too many coincidences that would have to take place for natural evolution to be the source of our beings.

Hume was an aetheist philosopher that wanted hard proof of Gods existence. He could never get it so he determined that there is no God.

In the end we all come full circle. You will never argue me out of my christian belief and I will never argue you away from satan worship.
 
Last edited:
Sandy, seriously I don't care what you need to tell yourself to get through your life, that's your row to hoe.

What I do have an issue with is the stupid notion you have that not believing in the supernatural, AT ALL, somehow translates in your mind to worshipping the supernatural.

What part of I DO NOT BELIEVE IN SUCH MUMMERY are you having trouble understanding?
 
Originally Posted By: tnshootist
What color can a man come up with that is new. Never seen before. Not a composite of things known but new.

There are forbidden colors humans can't even perceive...

"Color" is an illusion. Light and its spectrum exist in the physical world, but color is all in your mind. Having said that, color can be measured quite accurately, for an illusion, under some common practical conditions, and its influence on people behavior is well understood for something that is not real'

LSD is a pretty simple way to alter the set perceptions of established colors, but they have all already been seen. It matters not so much as to the knowledge in your head, but rather the content of the heart...
 
I do not feel threatened, disturbed or frightened at all. I was an atheist and I enjoy a philosophical debate also.

I didn't come to God through church or the Bible even though that was slightly how I was raised. I briefly studied many religions and there is much in common and the common ground(good and evil) is what caused me to let God in, and the deal was settled once that happened. And I do hope you feel the same way at some point.

I hope we can agree to disagree for now.
 

Originally Posted By: Infidel 762Originally Posted By: tnshootist
What color can a man come up with that is new. Never seen before. Not a composite of things known but new.

There are forbidden colors humans can't even perceive...

"Color" is an illusion. Light and its spectrum exist in the physical world, but color is all in your mind. Having said that, color can be measured quite accurately, for an illusion, under some common practical conditions, and its influence on people behavior is well understood for something that is not real'

LSD is a pretty simple way to alter the set perceptions of established colors, but they have all already been seen. It matters not so much as to the knowledge in your head, but rather the content of the heart...


OK.
But my point stays the same.
Man is so limited in what he can do he wouldn't know truth if he fell over it.
To think that all that there is is what we can prove by our standards is pretty small thinking in my opinion.
 
The MUMMERY THAT I CANT UNDERSTAND. By your own mouth anything that can be researched is a fact. Some of the very first recorded history was about God And Jesus Christ. Countless books have been written since. So vy your own standard the existence of God and Jesus is factual. Or do you care to reverse yourself.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: tnshootist
Originally Posted By: Infidel 762Originally Posted By: tnshootist
What color can a man come up with that is new. Never seen before. Not a composite of things known but new.

There are forbidden colors humans can't even perceive...

"Color" is an illusion. Light and its spectrum exist in the physical world, but color is all in your mind. Having said that, color can be measured quite accurately, for an illusion, under some common practical conditions, and its influence on people behavior is well understood for something that is not real'

LSD is a pretty simple way to alter the set perceptions of established colors, but they have all already been seen. It matters not so much as to the knowledge in your head, but rather the content of the heart...


OK.
But my point stays the same.
Man is so limited in what he can do he wouldn't know truth if he fell over it.
To think that all that there is is what we can prove by our standards is pretty small thinking in my opinion.

I know, everything we perceive is based off this microscopic speck of a world. Sure we have satellites and telescopes, technology to see minuscule cells, intelligent scientist who combine the presice chemicals to cure diseases, even clone flesh. But we can not create a soul, nor emotions like love nor the intellect to understand all that is and beyond our simple imaginations. In fact we cannot even plant faith the size of a mustard seed into a fellow man, we can share our personal experience, strength and hope, but how it is received is out of oor control.

I find it comforting that my faith is something no human power could ever destroy...
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top