Aggh again another rimfire post

Sgt_Mike

Sgt_Mike

Well-known member
Went to one of the local smith's to get a old Winchester 121 barrel threaded.
During the conversation (as he and I had not really talked in a few years) he had a older MKII 22/45 target.

I asked him what he wanted for it. He told me the price, then I asked him about threading. He offered to D&T for the scope mount. Picked it and the Winchester barrel up today.
On the way home stopped at a LGS not really expecting to find the scope base. Which they did have, a quick installation and it was ready to get a small reddot optic at a later date. Really nothing to brag about as the newer version have several improvement (that is barring the actual threading job on both of the barrels absolutely great IMO).
Yet the ole girl (Ruger MKII with the "45" grip angle) does fit my hand quite well. Might have to earmark this one for my granddaughter Aspen.

That now brings me to needing a new rimfire suppressor (s).... For the Single Shot Winchester 121 (now cut back to 16.5" bbl threaded) and the Ruger pistol.

I'm heavily considering the Sparrow for the Winchester 121 (my understanding is the FRP is usually concerning pistols) not the best yet a decent level performance.
While the monocore is not the most effective performance wise it is easier to clean. I have heard them on a similar host and it was acceptable.

The Ruger MKII 22/45 is the one that I'm having the greatest indecision on .. jessie's girl, OCL titanium, JK 105 Versa, YHM Phantom 22, and several others. This one I definitely don't want FRP...
Although I have no hands on knowledge on the Resilient offering of Jessie's Girl, The no FRP (on a pistol host) minimal POI shift, price point close to the Sparrow. Are definitely factors to consider.
 
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i use my sparrow on my bolt action and my kel tec p-17, both are very quiet. i never really noticed a FRP from the kel tec. its might be there but i never really shot it that much or paid attention when i did.

sorry
 
@bohunr

Because I was just way too ugly in my picture for the OCL 5.56mm can that I'm attempting to finalize (in a different post) I went to the shop today in hopes they can scale the new one then finish the review etc for submittal. Although I think I still look just as ugly as the first (LOL ... 🤣 ).

So I went back to the counter and looked again at what he has in the case. I've narrowed it down to the following for the Win 121 Rifle.
1. SilencerCo Sparrow.
Just has a lot going for it.
My Gopher hunting buddy, and I have the same rifle, both cut to 16.5" barrel threaded by the same Smith. He has never owned a can, but he is now excited. He has shot mine (centerfire) on numerous occasions with his AR, and likes it. Just the stamp cost was what was getting him. So, I'll guide him to get the same can for his first can.

Now for the pistol I want a "better" (yeah subjective word there) for rimfire can number 2.
Actually just want a different one in case the Sparrow is a little lacking (on the pistol host, which I'm almost positive it won't be in a rifle).
a. Otter Creek Titanium. (most baffle's of the three. Leads me to suspect will have the best decibel reduction rating of the three)
b. Resiliant Jessie's Girl (in the reviews seem to have the least chance of FRP in hand guns. Reality may be different with my host, one less baffle than the OCL).
c. Dead Air Mask (reassembly is not as smooth as the others above, not enough to really complain about. Just enough to shift the others to a higher position 1 less baffle than the OCL).
d. this one is "IF" and only if the shelves and resupply just isn't happening and actually my personal last resort when I plop the money down. - JK 105 versaX which is the cheapest cost wise of the four above, it does have some very fine features. A through c is really a tough choice to make took me several hours to come to a decision they are just really close.
 
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I went with the Switchback from SilencerCo. I like the options of running it in any of the three possible configurations.

Plus the dealer had it on the shelf.

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@alf
Yes Sir I have looked at that can years ago when it came out there is quite a few features that make it worthy of consideration.
I do like the modularity factor.
The LGS didn't have it on the shelf, which is the only reason I didn't consider it in the post (the other that "might" be a consideration is the YHM Phantom 22, also not in their case).
That is a nice looking rig you have there.



@Duhhh
Also a nice setup with the dead air mask, and is so close to the MKII 22/45 I have it isn't even funny. Mine is the SS upper is the obvious difference the barrels length look in the photos to be identical.
 
Ok update a bit
@hm1996 should find this one interesting, suppressors much like scopes, red dots sight, magazine are actually accessories to the host. I've discussed briefly the host. This part will cover the optics to accompany the suppressors on the Host systems.
First up is the Ruger Mk II 22/45 with the great sight that I obtained from @hm1996 at a great price. Thank you and thank you Sir. For posting it in the classified here and A ABSOULTE FLAWLESS transaction and for putting up with my blathering on and on about sights tractors etc ... I think I wore him out in PM's LOL.
(I'm in hopes this serves as a highly positive post / reflection of him for many looking in the classified section) Absolutely pleased with the results thus far, The fact that Burris is on par with Leupold in transferable lifetime warranty, as well as the factory supplied screwdriver, and sight indexing adjustment ring for this optic is just icing on the cake.



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and a side view (yep the Smith shortened the factory warning a bit when he set her to a 4.5" barrel length, and the Burris FF 2 looks right at home on the Ruger)

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I'm Planning on tomorrow to zero her (thinking a 25yard for the pistol) and the Rifle shown below before suppressor's paperwork is filed in order to get a point of reference (baseline) for accuracy, and possible POI shifts if any. (this post will be my and you the reader's notebook for BOTH host). As is evident the Pistol is now ready for a suppressor filing when the time is right (1st Quarter of 2026).

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Next is the Winchester 121 trainer rifle (circa 1967 -1973 or so ) which has a interesting back story. A real good friend and PD hunting buddy, gave me this rifle, for a centerfire 22 project that I later lost interest and abandoned (221 Askins history here: Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol ). He is the one whom cut the stock's down for his daughter's length of pull, and painted the stock etc for her. Then later circumstances dictated she was not interested so it sat unloved and a symbol of regret in his safe next to his Win 121 (which he actively uses his as it was his first gun given to him). And he is pretty much following my lead on this as he had his cut and threaded to the same length and we are both looking hard at the Silencer Co "Sparrow"

Later the desire idea for a real light weight "Walking Varmint PD/Gopher" came into my head. I recently posted the fact that the scope I decided to put on her just came back from Leupold from service. (VX-1 4-12x40mm) nothing really special, just a solid performer as a rule. Why 12X ? LMAO I'm getting older I need all the help I can get. Plus the fact of the warranty for when it's time to transfer this one to my Granddaughter Aspen which will be lock stock and barrel. I'm thinking of using a 75 Yard zero for this one as it should hold minute of gopher out to 100 yards (fingers crossed). Seeing how my Son and Daughter in Law Hunt on a regular basis I'm sure that Aspen will more than likely put the old trainer to good use. Although in the photo it will probably be hard to tell the barrel is threaded / cut to 16.5".

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As one can tell my daughters Maine Coon approves of the threading job and thread protector. He is usually a pretty good inspector LMAO.. Me I'm amazed just how lightweight this setup with this single shot is. Feels like less weight than the Ruger Mk II, even with the 4-12 power scope on it.

Ammo is most likely to be CCI standard velocity or a brand that is in the same velocity range, as it affords the most velocity without being supersonic to allow the can to be the most effective, avoiding a supersonic crack. (I do have several brands on hand to see the most advantageous selection)
 
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Well Today shooting and zeroing didn't happen.
I had gathered everything for the range was about to load ammo, guns, and needed items into the truck. Then I figured I'd drag my phone with me (rare event I usually leave it). Looked and seen I had a missed call from my Buddy by 7 minutes, called him back he stated he was heading over, Ok I said. went outside, waited so after about a hour and some change I was like WT* is he ? Thinking he might have had a accident on the way over I called. Well he got held up. OK I said again, no problem just checking on you. Finally he made it here, dragging his Win 121, we had a visit about midway through the conversation I told him I was going to go to the range when I returned his call. He had the "oh sh**" look, so we discussed tomorrow for both of us going, should be more enjoyable. Always look forward to shooting with him.
We was both pleased with the overall size weight and compactness of the two rifles, he remarked that mine had a more expensive scope, with I kind of laughed, and pointed out his Burris was actually at the same price point as the VX-1 I have.
 
Then moved the target to 75 yards zeroed then shot for groups this run I used a 20 shot string for evaluation.
Here is with CCI Select
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CCI Standard (which is the ammo I used for zeroing purposes)

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Many would discount the shot on the left as a flyer on the above target ... Nope it is part of the group IT is a MISS
it wasn't the 1st shot nor a cold bore shot or any other excuse such as at this point my rounds count was approaching 200 rounds.
It was pretty warm as well I could complain about all the above instead I'll claim it for what it was part of the group. Will the next group have that maybe,,,, maybe not.



Last but not least .. Federal Gold Match

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While I shot on a Arkansas Game and fish public range, which I'm grateful that they offer a public range. There is a weird aspect NO silhouettes be that animal or human
I had used the aiming squares when I shot the groups. Then used a sharpie and life sized target spinner to draw the outline for a decent reference when I got home.

So what was the con's on the setup before being re-shot for validation and then finally the suppressor added. Trigger.. Like many rifles of that era, which I actually thinking this one is a actual 1967, no serial numbers at all on the rifle, Ed My buddy his has serial numbers, GCA of 1968 req'd SN's. Pulling on the trigger was like pulling a brick in gravel, with a fishing line.
So I'll probably just polish it (2000 grit sandpaper first ever so lightly, just to take the high spots a bit, and then leather strop with jewelers rouge for the polish) a slight bit not to reduce the pull but to smooth it out a bit. (and I'm eyeing that match adjustable butt plate setup in the tool box that isn't doing anything right now hard. wouldn't add much in it's shortest configuration... I'll pray on it) . Ohh the shadows on the target is the phone.
 
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Very nice, Sarge. Amazing how well those little .22's of that era shoot.
In 1945, when I was nine, my dad's best friend gave me a 510 Remington. The 1956, oldest Stoegers I have, listed the 510 for $22. I learned to shoot on that little rifle, taught my wife and son to shoot on it. Years later, when I was instructor & match director for our DCM club we were issued 10 US M144's (heavy 22 match rifles) which were way too heavy for many of the youngsters to handle. I shortened the barrel, installed a Redfield front and rear aperture sight, dropped it in a Rem. 513T stock (which I shortened and added a handstop); the younger kids loved it! Taught my grandson to shoot on it and granddaughter now owns it. Sure doesn't owe me much. :D Length of pull was about 10" and OAL about 31-32".
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Hey Sarge, nice groups from your old rifle. It looks like you are trying a couple different loads and still holding decent groups. I would say from my experience, send a bunch more downrange before you think that is the best you can do. Pretty common for a 22 to settle in with a bit of shooting when changing ammo. Some of the worst grouping ammo I have tried tightened up after 25-50 rounds were sent down the tube. IDK if it's the different lube, or the total combination of the rounds themselves, but I never trust what I see on target until a bunch of rounds have been sent. Here's 25 round groups from my 1022 at 50 with some old stuff that I deemed garbage. Went from 2+ inch groups to this as I kept plinking away! I can't remember which was which, but I was playing around shooting from my tripod. One group was sitting, one was standing. These junk rounds started coming together after 50+ rounds were sent down range! Just saying
.
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Thank all of you for your kind replies and info it is very much appreciated.

I had settled on the 75 Yards zero because I'm thinking that it should be the most productive. vs 100 across a field as my reticle is a standard duplex. (no true holdovers)
IIRC the data from CCI on ballistics the Select and the Standard Velocity brand (I think180 fps difference) should have a drop of 4 /or 5" @ 100 with that zero which means a head hold to hit in the body.

Yes, I was trying different loads to see the most advantageous,
The load /Ammo I didn't include in the post was Winchester T-22, that ammo was terrible, almost tripling the group, wildcat maybe better if I see some. I might try some maybe.
I did have some CCI Quiet (again one not included) that I tried, but the POI wasn't on paper I did see it on the backerboard, snickered, and said oh well (it's what 800ish FPS, BTW the grouping was on par with the others).

I've had this 22 in the safe for over 3 years without ever firing a single round through it until today. I honestly had no clue how it would perform, but every rimfire from that era to earlier has always performed to my satisfaction.

I did not do what I always done with my Match 10/22's, Anschutz, Walther KKM, and Remington Targetmaster's (which over the years sadly found new homes.. Relatives in some cases, the match 22 rifle that has always eluded me was the Remington 40X in 22lr). Which was swab the bore with beewax laden patch and jag before firing the fouler (s) round. I also did not check the torque on the action screw, just applied "German torque" (Guten tight) when I assembled the barreled action to the stock.

Personally on this rifle I was very pleased with it's performance from a "free" rifle, without any tweaking except a barrel cut back /re-crown and threading. When Ed and I was comparing the rifles, I thought the Smith cut my barrel at 16.5" just like his. He kept saying I think your barrel is longer. I just now found out I was wrong / mistaken it's cut at 19.5" and threaded. In the smith's defense I didn't say it plainly to exactly 16.5" so yeah I get why it's the length it is. Right before inserting the rod to check the length I was greeted with the famous lube star on the crown (always a good sign with rimfires and cast loads). There are a lot of things to like about this Trainer, dual extractors, actual locking lugs, But it is still a 1960 era $30.00 Single Shot budget rifle, so yes it will need some attention, a bit, not much. But honestly I'm pretty confident I could just screw a can on and kill vermin with it right now. It meets it's purpose, although I'm still eyeballing that adjustable buttplate LMAO... Just a side note I was shooting from a bipod and using a rear squeeze bag. Which is something I would use in the field, as well as offhand / supported positions.

@hunt0168 actually I do have a opinion on what you said, with the changing the ammo There is a slight difference in the lub alloy but most it's a blend of beewax or a derivative. And the barrel does have to switch it's "seasoning" of the slight alloy change. So I can see your results, and have echoed them in the past. Can I prove it no, but I've come to that conclusion, not just from rimfires, I've noticed it in cast loads as well.

Added /updated later after posting:
pulled the action out of the stock, checked barrel channel, over spray I pulled my barrel channel (bedding) tool out gently removed just the over spray. polished the trigger a little bit. Reset the action in the stock torqued the action screw to 35 in-LBs (always had luck in the past with that torque value).
 
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I decided today try again, I had set the action screw at 35in-lbs, then thought about it, decided to loosen and reset at 25 in-lbs. I decided to go with 30 shot groups this time to see if there was any thing hiding I was getting with the earlier smaller shot groups.

Mexican ammo seemed like a choice... Aguila subsonic advertised at 1025fps

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2-1/2" spread (I did not cover how I measure it's outside to outside, I don't subtract bullet diameter, just a method)
This was the second group I fired. (thinking 3 clicks Up (0.563") , 2 clicks (0.375") Right should center those up well)

When I retorqued the action screw I did need "slight" adjustment to elevation 4 clicks down, which I used the CCI Select for the actual Zero, and just shot everything off that zero. Basically to evaluate the groups, although I did kind of reference POI, the groups was my main goal.
Here is the CCI Select Target.

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Extreme Spread of 2-3/4"

Now for the Oddball, I just had a box of Norma TAC-22 and thought what the heck. Not even sure of anyone local carrying this brand, but I did have 1 box on hand.

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3-1/2" extreme spread for that.... I did notice that the lube on the Norma was seemly all over the cartridge.
Now the last groups shot was the CCI Standard Velocity ... Which was fired after the Norma without any fouler.
The second shot was the far left bullet hole, which makes sense to me. I did that for a reason, in the previous target shot, the same happened. Yep the ole' girl likes foulers.

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Even though I wanted the CCI standard to be the winner here, because of price point.
Looks like I just should break down and go with Aguila at $1.00 more per 50.
Then reset /tune the zero for the Aguila subsonic. Calling this part done , today confirms yesterday's results pretty much as repeatable,
I can definitely live with these results. The advertised velocity of CCI STD (1070 fps) and the Aguila Subs (1025 fps) are actually close.
I'll refrain from anymore target work (posting groups) on the rifle, tweak the Aguila a bit if possible (action screw torques). Start recording DOPE on shifting to 100 yards with a established 75 yard zero . Until the suppressor is paid for, approved and new trip to the range is done. The results with the suppressor will either be better, worse, or the same

Thank you everyone for putting up with my blathering on about a silly rimfire.
But I figured that (a.) most like to look at targets, (b.) that I needed to have a established baseline for the evaluation of one of the suppressors I listed above. Why the drawing the outline of a PD/Gopher? haha it honestly just amuses me...
Again Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Best Regards
Mike
 

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Sarge, you know more about conditions and had advantage of calling each shot, but IDK, I believe I'd play with the CCI some more. Did you have any wind at all? Ya got only 6 shots outside your main group on the CCI and 11 on the Aquila + your main group was tighter w/the CCI.
 
@hm1996

Wind actually a little did come up, but waited them out till the flags fell (for the cross winds) .
On the CCI STD ammo the wind was at my 6 which honestly explains the vertical in my mind on about 5 rounds. Then shifted to the 7 o'clock I stopped the group waited till dead still to finish that group. Mirage barely noticeable at all.
The CCI Select was doing extremely well at the start, as that was the first group shot after zero, (now could a wind from the 4 slipped in there say @ the 25 to 50 yard line, yes sir could have)

Thinking next trip to give 5 more inch pounds (30) on the action screw, shoot the Agulia for groups (1st) after 5 foulers, if the groups falls apart, shift back to the CCI again use 5 foulers should get me out of the lube difference, and see if she tightens up. I would suspect but not sure if the lube is the same on the "select" vs the STD. But who knows, it may want foulers to "settle" down between the two CCI loads. 1200 fps on the "select" , 1070 fps on the STD is the advertised velocity which I'd be surprised if I'm getting that, figuring lower.
If everything falls apart loosen and reset to 25 in-lbs, and go.
 
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You don't by any chance have a box of CCI Green Tag do you? I had a mod 52 prone rifle that loved GT better than any of the high dollar stuff.
 
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