Another calve killer dead!

For years here in the East I have watched closely for signs of coyote damage. I had seen none until the last couple of years. What has changed I have asked myself time and again. I believe that the coyote population is what has happened. Now they are so plentiful that they are running low on rabbits, birds, housecats etc. They are therefore adding to their menu the local cattle. First coyote impact I noticed was one year there were no groundhogs. They almost wiped out the groundhog population out in a couple of years. Now you only see them close to the highways or houses. Where I had been shooting over a hundred myself each summer now I am lucky to shoot 10. They are a very efficient killer. In the last month I know of two new born calves that were taken. I don't know whether or not I got all of the culprits but I sure have shot several since this happened. Now I have farmers calling me when they see coyotes. I like that part and I try to take as many as I can. I forsee more damage in the East as the coyote population flourishes and becomes more established in areas where they have no natural enemies other than a automobile.
 
ADCcoyote,

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated. I'm pretty up to snuff on how coyotes operate in the different times of year, social structure and most of the dynamics that makes them tick. Plenty enough, in fact, to never say never or always when dealing with coyotes. Cal mentioned he had some coming in to kill sheep as far away as 6 miles. I also think he mentioned they came through other coyotes to do this killing. Did these coyote cross the forbidden terretorial barrier? Lets assume that they could have come for six miles from all directions. He didn't know for sure he killed the right coyote by cutting him open did he? High likelyhood, maybe. By cutting open all the coyotes he killed he was able to assemble this evidence. Great, but was he certain enough to stop hunting or tell the racher he was through? They also could have been eating dead lambs from some other places dead pile or killing 6 miles in the other direction. He also didn't know if their weren't coyotes coming in from 3 miles from the opposite direction or 2 miles from another direction or 7 miles from another. My point is this. You know your finished when the killing stops, and sometimes it only stops temporarily. I'm all for cutting them open if you get valuable information. Thats great, but it only proves, what they ate recently, and on the female, how many pups they had. If you need or can use this information,by all mean cut them open. I'm sure it is of some consolation to the rancher, but when I'm called I don't stop untill the killing stops. I understand that it is usualy only a single or a pair that is causing the problem but cutting them open doesn't prove this. Nor does it keep another from filling and begin killing or another local resident to begin to kill. Way too many "what if's" as Rusty said. OK!! Now I'm beating a dead horse now so I'll quit.

Thanks for all the points of view.

I got to go now and do a little ADC work, and won't be back untill late tonight or early in the morning. Hope I kill a few offenders, or at least stop some would be future offenders. Wish me luck /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
223,

Animal Damage Control

The way I understand it, anyone who gets paid or compensated to kill coyotes in a certain area is doing ADC work.

Brad
 
Byron, I cover 2200 sq miles of area, I know most all sheep producers, were there dead piles are and who has sheep were, I would know if they had the ability to feed from a dead pile be it fresh or old, my producers in fact tell me exactly were all bone/dead piles are if I want to set them up with traps/snares or use them for a calling decoy!
Nothing is 100% but knowing your area and I'm still learning for sure, goes along ways into the equation too. I never mentioned to up and pull out all security blankets unless the killing is haulted. I keep traps/snares working until I get the green lite as to lost nothing in a week or more. To cover an area of size this is the technique I use, I can't during the summer depredation be in there to knock out every coyote, and what good would it do to kill 14 and leave the pair doing damage I just wasted days or weeks and the mean time the producer has lost more livestock?
I look for the ones doing damage, I try and find out the pieaces to the puzzle start at the kill site and work back from there. I cover all entry and exit points with traps/snares and set up a defense to the sheep. The calling can be the quickest and most effective tool at this time of year, so can a trap,snare or m-44, the more diverse one is the better the predator control person one can be.
I spend fall/winter and early spring knocking down numbers around sheep producers, yep they sift back in as good coyote habitat will always have coyotes, I play the numbers game and it works in more ways than one! Areas of heavy predator control, coupled with mange and parvo outbreaks, like we had 2 years ago due to 5 years of drought, keep coyote numbers in check. A good dose of really cold weather this winter would have wiped out alot of mangy coyotes early on, nver happened so what I caught,called, were a bunch of mangy ugly buggars for sure.
You should come up North some time and do some calling. Look at these 2 coyotes I put them on there own thread!
 
Well If I would have titled this one diffrent you guys wouldnt have any fun bustin each others balls. Dang I may not post another kill this time of the year some guys get all serious about was he the right one? Hes dead cant bring them back if he aint the one right! And how do you tell if hes the one before shooting them do they pick thier teeth with little hooves?????? I got it follow him tell he takes a dump then examine the droppings then bust his butt.Is this the way you adc guys do it???LOL!
 
Here in NC the coyote is taking over as a result of few predator hunters, tough terrain to call in, etc. I feel they will take over literally if hunters, any kind of hunter, doesn't do their part and kill them anytime they see one. Heck, even our fox population is almost gone now, I have seen them eating a fox.

Conservative predator hunters do not get offended, its just that NC is too heavily populated and IS not the place to tolerate coyotes...gobblr addict
 
I get lots of calls from landowners haveing yote problems! I make 1 promise! that I will kill or try and kill every yote I see! every time I see the farmer I ask if he is still having problems,tell him what I've killed and tell him there will always be more where the dead ones came from!
In the time it takes for experts to stop and examine the remains of a dead yote or dead livestock! I've killed one or more yotes! so I'm already ahead of the coroner!
If you have done your home work, you have already seen enough droppings on the place to know what yotes in that area are eating!provided he eats and sh---poops!
I guess the point I'm making is that I kill them all {at leats the ones I can hit} as long as there are yotes and as long as I can see to shoot!
KILL THEM ALL, LET GOD SORT THEM OUT!
 
Guess writes:In the time it takes for experts to stop and examine the remains of a dead yote or dead livestock! I've killed one or more yotes! so I'm already ahead of the coroner!

Guess without knowing were to find the coyotes doing the damage what good does it do the producer or you, if say you go out the next morning after a fresh lamb kill or goat kill and shoot 2 coyotes, those being the wrong 2 and the next day 3 more lambs or a ewe is killed?
Producers don't like to encure losses and I can tell you were I live they aren't tolerated by many producers, with beef and lamb prices at high levels!!
I have zero problem with you doing coyote maintance and killing a pile of coyotes, but in ADC unless you get the pair feeding pups "most" of the time the killing will continue until you get the correct coyote/coyotes or the producer sells off in the fall.The big differance between fall/winter coyote trapping or calling and spring summer ADC is fall/winter your out to call/trap a pile of coyotes anyone is a great catch/kill, but spring/summer if your doing it for a living or getting paid you must produce the coyotes doing the damage first and foremost or your going to be out of a job sooner rather than later. Rancher coffee talk spreads quicker than a wildfire!!!
 
Well stated ADC, just what I posted in the beginning that got under some of the fellas skins. If your calling and killing summer time coyotes, just say that, no need to qualify your hunting by sounding as though your doing a service to stock producers.
Some guys are in awe, and maybe envy the few fellas who make a living doing that kind of work, and want to punch up their hunting story by peppering it with phrases like "killed another calf killer".
The killing part is easy, it's determining where and what individual predators are doing the killing. Once you find them, or think you have, the easy part is calling and shooting them.
99.9% of us are pure recreational callers, we need no justification for doing so, whenever we want. If your hunting coyotes in the summer, have at it, many of us curtail doing so in the spring/summer, but thats our own particular choice.
The guys like Cal, who do ADC for a living, have put in lots of time figuring out how to find problem predators, and Im sure it [beeep] them off to no end reading the hunting tales of those who think, or pretend to know:)
 
NO awe or envy in you adc guys especially if you guys are guttin out a nasty [beeep] coyote. I dont hunt this time of the year I can but choose not to unless i get a call like this to help out a farmer. And for you Adc guys since I shot this coyote things have stopped no more calves taken hmmm must have got the right one and to think I didnt have my hands up inside a nasty coyote stomach. And i am a recreational coyote hunter chile and I need no justification to kill a coyote this one was a calf killer so deal with it... Yeah I probably got lucky but I'll take luck over guttin out a nasty coyote. I dont need you Adc guys bustin my balls for postin a pic or for shooting a calf killer you guys jelous of me?????
 
From your post, I gather thats just your way of saying " ok guys, I told a little windy, just got carried away in the moment. The ranchers request was a good excuse for me to get out, and call a coyote or two. I had a ball, and called one in too, had a great hunt!"
 
chilerojo:
"Well...did you slit his belly open to see if indeed he was a calf killer, or was it just presumed because he was in the neighborhood"
guess: what difference does it make to yotehuntr? he just called it calf killer because that is what he wanted to name his post! he is not an ADC man ,nor did he claim to be!
cal taylor:
"I think that all Chile Rojo was getting at was that since it was being called a calf killer, maybe someone should check and see. In my summertime ADC employment I have found that in order to know if you have killed the right coyote it is necessary to see what that particular coyote was eating."
Guess: there is no right or wrong coyote! regardless of what he was eating ! a dead one is a good one!
cal:
" If you have depredation going on in an area it is usually a specific coyote or group of coyotes and those are the coyotes that will be full of lamb or beef in most cases. Especially this time of year (feeding pups). Later in the fall you will get all types of killing when they may or may not feed on the carcass. I have been in areas of sheep depredation and killed several coyotes near the sheep but figured out by stomach contents that I hadn't killed the killers. "
guess: first of all not all coyotes in a giving are have pups! who is to say they are not doing some of the "ALL TYPES OF KILLING"
one other point that comes to mind,if it was ,say a lone male that just happened to kill someone's livestock. DOES that mean that he had to have fed on the carcass?
how many yotes with in oh lets say a mile may have fed on that carcass but had no part of killing it?
how do you know that the yote you just killed didn't just take a big ol huge dump and clean himself out,before he goes back to fill up again?
cal:I'm not saying that there was anything wrong with killing the collateral coyotes, but as I stated above, until you actually have the ones responsible, you aren't finished. Thats also the reason that most "recreational" hunters don't really do any good with damage control. Because they can't or won't stay there till the job is finished. They kill a coyote or two, but it may or may not be the killers and then they go to town and get on the computer to tell everyone what a great "ADC" job they did, meanwhile the rancher gets hammered again that night.
guess: ok say you kill 10 coyotes in the immediate area of the livestock kill.the first 7 or 8 have evidence of depredation in their stomach and the last 2 or 3 don't . are you done? if so why? say in your opinion,that you are done! which in my opinion {just my opinion} unless you actually see a coyote kill ,there is no way {unless you are God} that you know you have killed the killer! but say you think you have the killer/killers and you tell the land owner what a good job you have done ,where's my money? who is to say he still wont lose a calf /sheep to another yote that took the place of the one you killed a few days back?
what then? did you kill the right one the first time or has another moved in?
cal: I said killing was fine, but I was trying to make the point of actually knowing if you had the ones you need to have to stop the depredation. It seems to keep going over everyone's head, so I'll drop it
guess: what seems to be going over everyone's head is that yotehunter never said he solved this guys problems ,he just said he killed a calf killer ! hell that's as good a name as any for a yote if you ask me ! he never asked for anyone's opinion he just shared an awesome experience which is what this board is all about! it's not about who is the best ADC man!
and it still hasn't been dropped! " I said killing was fine, but I was trying to make the point of actually knowing if you had the ones you need to have to stop the depredation. It seems to keep going over everyone's head, so I'll drop it!
cal: so I'll just drop it!
cal:I just truly don't believe that the guy that started this post has any clue as to whether or not he killed a coyote that was actually the problem. He went out and killed a coyote that a rancher wanted dead. Good deal. But don't come back here and post that you killed the "calf killer" (it is calf, by the way) if you don't have a friggin clue.
guess: again "calf killer" is a great name for a dead yote post! so he didn't spell it correctly not everyone is perfect! get a clue ? that is really an understatement! YOU ARE NOT GOD !ONLY HE KNOWS FOR SURE! and you jumpinall over yotehunter for sharing an awesome experience ! which I myself appreciate! thanks yotehuntr!
chilerojo: Hey, I don't care when, where or how a guy kills coyotes. I only spoke to the stated thread title, "Another calve killer dead" I was only asking, if indeed it was?
guess: again just the name of a good post!
cal:Byron, I thought this was the end of this, but I guess you are just going to keep picking? I never got around to calling anyone an idiot, so you can drop that also. I know there are some very good callers around here and have never said any different. My grind was someone calling a coyote a calf killer, who really didn't know if that particular coyote was or not.
guess: cal you said yotehuntr didn't have a clue! same as being called an idiot! and you still can't prove or disprove that any coyote is or is not a calf killer unless you see one do it! not even PERRY MASON COULD!
cal: Appparently our coyotes are far more territorial than in Tejas, because it usually isn't coyotes running willy nilly here and there and killing with no pattern. I have already typed far more than I intended, and am not going to comment further. I know how things work here with depredation and how to handle it ( apparently anyway, because I keep getting hired back to den every year, and these guys don't tolerate much BS)
guess: if you are getting hired back every year are you killing the right coyote ? if so ,why are they having to call you back? did you kill the right coyote to begin with? hum maybe another one moved in! which gets us back to ,if you killed the right one to begin with!
and it's TEXAS we are not mexicans,not that I have anything against them!
cal: So if you want to push this further Byron, and tell me again that there is no reason to cut open a coyote in an area where there is killing going on, you will just be argueing with yourself. I'm done with it, and I have no intention of trying to educate anyone any further.
Guess: still no reason in my OPINION to cut one open! unless he just ate your wife and took the diamond ring with him!
ADCcoyote: Byron,you tell the rancher if you know to a high degree you have the right coyote or pair or whatever. You can tell by looking at the carcass and area if your dealing with 1,2 or more coyotes. At this time of year it will be either 1 or a pair killing to feed pups, once there weaned. You can tell by tracks, location and what cover there in.
guess: now I'm not gonna quote your whole post but what you said here makes since! and the rest of the post made pretty good sense too1 you never claimed you had "the right coyote" till the killing stopped!
ADC coyote:Byron, I cover 2200 sq miles of area, I know most all sheep producers, were there dead piles are and who has sheep were, I would know if they had the ability to feed from a dead pile be it fresh or old, my producers in fact tell me exactly were all bone/dead piles are if I want to set them up with traps/snares or use them for a calling decoy!
Nothing is 100% but knowing your area and I'm still learning for sure, goes along ways into the equation too. I never mentioned to up and pull out all security blankets unless the killing is haulted. I keep traps/snares working until I get the green lite as to lost nothing in a week or more. To cover an area of size this is the technique I use, I can't during the summer depredation be in there to knock out every coyote, and what good would it do to kill 14 and leave the pair doing damage I just wasted days or weeks and the mean time the producer has lost more livestock?
guess: again I'm not going to quote the whole post but you are still making good sense here so far! I may not agree with you 100% but you are still learning !! just kidding ! any of us that claims to know everything there is to know about yotes hasn't a clue! and never will!
I.O.N.Doyle:I wish this was titled "Another potential (but unproven) calf killer dead".
guess: now that's funny I don't care who you are that's funny!
ADC:Guess without knowing were to find the coyotes doing the damage what good does it do the producer or you, if say you go out the next morning after a fresh lamb kill or goat kill and shoot 2 coyotes, those being the wrong 2 and the next day 3 more lambs or a ewe is killed?
guess: again I'm not going to quote your whole post because of space what you say still makes sense,but my point is I never said I solved anyone's problem and I will never tell a rancher that I have ! cal did! I am not an ADC man ,and even if I was I still would not tell him I solved his problem! but you are right coffee talk spreads quick that is how I get 99% of my hunting spots! so it would seem, I'm at least slowing the depredation down some! but I'm not claiming to be stopping it! EVER!
chile:Some guys are in awe, and maybe envy the few fellas who make a living doing that kind of work, and want to punch up their hunting story by peppering it with phrases like "killed another calf killer".
guess: I DOUBT anyone here is in awe of you! envy yes! I envy anyone who enjoys their work no matter what it may be and can make a living at it!
now I'm a plumber by trade,good money,but tends to give you a crappy outlook! However I can tell you this ,I'm not going to gut a man to see why his turds are too big to go down the toilet!
and again ,why are you picking on yotehuntr! he has done nothing wrong this board is for the sportsman of America, not the ADC R"US GUYS !
I have nothing against the adc guys just don't go jumping down this guys throat because he didn't name his post the way you thought he should have!
well done yotehuntr! congrats ! I'm sure some where in his ancestry someone killed a calf!
my point is stop slamming these guys that are just out there having fun! nothing wrong with asking questions or trying to enlighten someone,but give a guy a break!
oh and cal,before you correct someone on their spelling ,check you own! mine is not perfect and I found 6 mistakes in yours! as dumb as a recreational hunter is and I still found some mistakes go figure!
my whole point in bringing this up and I'm sure this is byron's point too.this whole site is set up to encourege others and to share with others! give these guys a slap on the back ! don't knock to the ground! next just say you killed a yote cause you wanted to yotehuntr not because you had to have a reason!
I hope this site doesn't turn into a site where you feel the need to justify killing coyotes anytime of the year without being in fear of being ridiculed. most have limited time to get out and hunt and shouldn't be ridiculed for simply naming a post in a fashion that doesn't suit others or because of a difference of opinions!
 
Well for you adc guys that dont like my title kick rocks!!! And for the rest that helped and supported me thanks. But this will be the last post on this site from me. You adc guys are just [beeep] cause i killed a coyote and didnt get paid for it the way I see you guys are in envy and awe!!
 
I have been following this post for some time now. It amazes me to the point of disbelief that some people on here would bash a post like this just because he did not do an autopsy on the coyote to see if he killed the right one. As far as I am concerned, I don't think it would be at all possible to know if you got the right one or not unless you saw it kill, then you run into the problem that there is probably more than one on the place that has killed, is killing, or will at sometime kill. I ate a beef tonight, and you might could tell that tommorrow by examing my sh*% but does that mean I killed the steer. Sorry to say, it doesn't. I am glad yotehuntr killed the coyote and was proud of it, no matter what it had been eating. I am also glad he posted it, no matter what he titled it. I enjoy reading posts about peoples success and enjoyment from the outdoors and could care less what it had been eating. Good job Yotehuntr!!
 
yotehuntr,

I hope you reconsider your decision not to post on PM again. Lot's of good people hang out here. We don't all agree but that's what happens when you get a group this size together. Some are more tactful than others in there aproach but being the internet you have to have thick skin sometimes to put up with it. Rude behavior, ego's getting in the way, and personality clashes happen. Just part of the deal. Don't sweat these heated debates. Hope you hang around.

Byron
 
Hey buddy, c'mon don't give up, I didn't when I was catching slack about how unethical I am cause I like long shots, and how I'm not a real hunter cause sometimes I can make long shots cause I don't try to get close. Come on stick around, I got your back, you know that. The JS Peymaster is done and ready for an official field test. The Bass are up at Antelope, I caught 8 small ones a few days ago.

Don't make me call you, LOL! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

t/c223encore.
 
Back
Top