Bear Claw or Partition?

like I said to each his own, my statements (which I stand by) were made after talking to folks who not only know what they're doing, but demand more from they're equipment than most.
You wanna call me out for making statements that you haven't proven wrong just basicly ranted your experiences and opinions over.
If you'll check out the link I posted previously you'll read of side by side tests with the 2 bullets proving that the accubond is more reliable, has a better BC, and is more accurate.
Why would nosler have even bought out a bullet that competes directly with the partition if its so great?
like I said its your choice, just don't try to impose your opinions on me, I know what happens to each bullet when you drive them hard (impact a deer's shoulder at 3500-3700 fps) the accubond wins hands down
Good Shooting!
RR
 
"I know what happens to each bullet when you drive them hard (impact a deer's shoulder at 3500-3700 fps) the accubond wins hands down"

So you shoot deer with bullets traveling at 3500-3700fps? If so why?

$bob$
 
RR,

I've read your thread you linked to on the long range site and I'm a member there too and have been since the forums started.

If you're talking about extreme long range shooting you should say so.

That's a highly specialized form of shooting and it requires a highly specialized bullet and equipment.

I've been shooting long range for about 30 years now and I that's where I got my handle ldhunter (Long Distance Hunter).

I've use totally different bullets, rifles, powder, rests, etc for long distance hunting and assume you do too...

Shooting any game animal you intend to eat at the velocity you quoted above is asking for ruined meat on a whoesale scale.

It matters to me... I intend to eat a deer if I shoot it.

You've quoted an extreme case to try to justify what you said and I don't see how it applies but if it makes you feel better than I hope you're happy.

$bob$
 
"If you'll check out the link I posted previously you'll read of side by side tests with the 2 bullets proving that the accubond is more reliable, has a better BC, and is more accurate."

I've now read the thread fully and it appears that the "side by side tests" you refer to are on milk jugs full of water. If that's what you're hunting then I think you should use Accubonds for your milk jug hunting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

What I DID find reference to that applied much more than milk jugs was the report from AR (Accurate Reloading) is of a bunch of bullet failures for Accubonds in actual deer and elk hunting. Funny you didn't mention that.... Same thread. I've also read those threads on Accubonds at AR and have NEVER read anything like that about Partitions in game animals unless someone was pushing them at STW speeds at close range which is a prescription for disaster for almost any bullet and has no application in deer hunting unless you want to blow them up like a prairie dog for sport... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

$bob$
 
1) if your a stout advocate of the partition, then you've tried it at LR, if so you've saw it fail, if in fact you do shoot long range.
2) at 3500 fps (close range shot with long range equipment) you stay away from heavy bones. then even a ballistic tip isn't that bad as far as meat damage goes. I've taken deer from 23 to 627 yds with a 140 BT at 3550 out of a 7STW
3)If a bullet holds up well under extreme conditions then the chances of failure under normal conditions are less.
4) in exreme range shooting a LR shot on deer or other game if your shot is on the money basicly amounts to shooting it closer with a lower velocity round, so bullet failure is more likely to occur when the game is encountered closer than it is anticipated.
But with a nosler accubond or a custom bullet you don't have to worry about bullet failure like you do if shooting an A-max or SMK, if your set for a 1K shot and the deer/elk appears at 125 yds, then your asking for trouble, and yes in a high intensity cartridge like we use even the partition will rupture.
thats all I'm saying on this subject
RR
 
"1) if your a stout advocate of the partition, then you've tried it at LR, if so you've saw it fail, if in fact you do shoot long range."

Nope... Remember that I said that long range hunting requires highly specialized equipment? I use Nosler Ballistic tips beyond 400yds.

Sorry you got so upset. You maybe should have slowed down and qualified your remarks.

$bob$
 
"2) at 3500 fps (close range shot with long range equipment) you stay away from heavy bones. then even a ballistic tip isn't that bad as far as meat damage goes. I've taken deer from 23 to 627 yds with a 140 BT at 3550 out of a 7STW"

I would pass on the shot unless I could quietly change cartridges in the rifle to a short range one and if the deer would stand still for it. I prefer not to shoot meat animals with "bombs" like that.

$bob$
 
"3)If a bullet holds up well under extreme conditions then the chances of failure under normal conditions are less."

This is the kind of theory that abounds in hunting bullet discussions. It's usually proven wrong in the field where game is killed. In fact all the wonderful theory in the world hasn't ever produced a bullet that kills as reliably and penetrates fully as well as the partition while still reliably expanding in almost any animal even coyotes (I've killed several with 308 150gr Partitions and all were bang flops).

Theory is a wonderful thing but in terminal bullet performance on game animals Noslers smashing success with the Partition has never been matched.

"4) in exreme range shooting a LR shot on deer or other game if your shot is on the money basicly amounts to shooting it closer with a lower velocity round, so bullet failure is more likely to occur when the game is encountered closer than it is anticipated."

Agreed

"But with a nosler accubond or a custom bullet you don't have to worry about bullet failure like you do if shooting an A-max or SMK, if your set for a 1K shot and the deer/elk appears at 125 yds, then your asking for trouble, and yes in a high intensity cartridge like we use even the partition will rupture."

Agreed... But I don't use the Partition for long range shooting and have never heard of anybody that does. It's not accurate enough beyond 400 yards for precision bullet placement.

The jury is out on the Accubond and probably will be for several years to come until hundreds of hunters weigh in on actual bullet performance on the forums. Long shots, short shots, heavy bone encounters etc... The Accubond may in fact one day prove to be the "go to" bullet for medium to big game.

I think it's WAAAAY too early to say that it will replace the Partion and in fact the early results coming from hunters in the field aren't too encouraging. Nosler will likely make a few quiet improvements to the Accubond as reports come in like they did with the Ballistic Tips.

$bob$
 
I'm not upset, after taking over 200 deer, with everything from a 223 to a 458 socom I know that there is no 140+ .284 bullet that damages more meat than a 125 gr BT out of a 308 or a 110 gr JHP out of a 270 win. its a learning process, but after some folks come to the conclusion that they know it all, the learning process stops.


I would pass on the shot unless I could quietly change cartridges in the rifle to a short range one and if the deer would stand still for it. I prefer not to shoot meat animals with "bombs" like that.

How do you know its a bomb? How many deer ya shot with them? I've shot ballistic tips for 20 years in the 6mm,25 wssm, 7mm-08, 270, 270 wby, 7rm,7stw,even used some 55 gr bt's out of a 6 PPC filling damage permits, theyre not anyworse than any other big game bullet if you stay off the shoulders till they slow down to around 2800 fps. you hit one rib going through and it leaves a nickel to quarter sized exit, sure you can blow both shoulders off, if you want, but I don't like ruining meat either, but any bullet will damage some meat, its the very nature of high velocity cartridges.
Its a standard hunting bullet, nothing specialized about them, and for eastern and southern whitetails it can't be beat.
Not a particularly good bullet for LR applications but suit yourself.I'll agree to disagree and keep using what I know works for whatever broad spectrum of tasks I need a particular cartridge to fulfill.
The change nosler made to the BT's was, discontinued most of the line, and replaced them with a nosler solid base with a polymer tip, called them BT's, boxed those bullets 50 per box and the unchanged ones are still 100 or 250 per box
RR
 
you got any souces to back these up or are we sposed to take it as gospel cause its on the net?

Theory is a wonderful thing but in terminal bullet performance on game animals Noslers smashing success with the Partition has never been matched.

yeah when the partition was developed it was a milestone, but the advent of bonded bullets, its just another innacurate bullet, outdated like a couple others still in production. There are many other proven bullets that are just as good or better and most don't share the innacuracy traits of the nosler. IE trophy bonded, scirroco's, interbonds,grand slams,barnes, not to mention customs.


This is the kind of theory that abounds in hunting bullet discussions. It's usually proven wrong in the field where game is killed.
where do you think I kill game at? your not the only one to ever hunt ya know.



In fact all the wonderful theory in the world hasn't ever produced a bullet that kills as reliably and penetrates fully as well as the partition while still reliably expanding in almost any animal even coyotes (I've killed several with 308 150gr Partitions and all were bang flops).
This is an opinion lacking any fact except "cause I said so"
150 gr bullet at 308 velocities should kill a coyote DRTas will a 223 with a 64 gr power point, which by the way will fully penetrate whitetails and expand quite nicely.
not solving anything here, I've got too much first hand experience to sway my opinion and your to much into some fantasy about why you know what you think
RR
 
Hey there. If you are interested in the Barnes TSX Bullets. Go to their website and request a free video that demonstrates what they do. I was so impressed by this video that I switched all of my big game hunting rifles to these rounds. A few of the benefits of these rounds are that they are faster because of less pressure created in the barrel, they are 100% copper construction so they retain almost 100% of their original weight when they impact a target and they penetrate deaper than any other slug with consideration of the winchester fail safe.
 
I have not had good performance from the Nosler partitioned bullets. Last year I shot 160gr. TBBC in my .280 Rem. on a cow elk, it was all I could ask for. I also shot an antelope with it. It was too much bullet for antelope.
 
Hey Ken, you make a good point. I can't see traveling 30 hrs out the road without a Deer tag in my pocket. I was afraid the Bear Claw may be a little slow to expand at '06 velocities on lighter game. Well, the only thing I can see to do is buy another gun. Yep, I know it is an awfull thing to have to endure, but I am up to the task. Now the question is, which one? I hate gun shopping. Hrs spent standing in gun shops, looking at all the different makes and modeles. Then there is what caliber? I guess I have my work cut out for me.
 
Partitions are designed to shed the top half of the bullet and retain the rear core at higher velocities or when hitting bone. They do this very reliably. If you like this design then look no further. If you'd rather keep your bullets in one piece, keep looking.

If I'm shooting over 2900 fps mv, I don't use Pts because I'd rather have the whole bullet pass through the vitals rather than just the core. This is just my experience. Under 2900 fps, they have performed flawlessly for me.

If you like the way PTs were designed to perform, use them. Not a matter of better, just different.
 
A guy asks about bear claw or partitions for elk (not deer) and we get into all this mumbo jumbo. Partitions, particularly of the 180 gr., work great on elk and are plenty accurate to shoot out there a long ways. Certainly 500 yards or more. Guys who want to try different bullets whether for experience sake, being a snob, or whatever other reason should go right ahead. But to call a tried and proven bullet like the partition out dated and inaccurate is telling. Personally I could care less what a moderate to heavy for caliber partition will do at 3500+ impact velocity. Use your common sense and match the bullet to the cartridge/job at hand.
 
And the front part that frangments as designed often leads to more blood loss and quicker kills making it good for rib cage shots as well as angling shots. Few do both as well even today.
 
Quote:
And the front part that frangments as designed often leads to more blood loss and quicker kills making it good for rib cage shots as well as angling shots. Few do both as well even today.



On elk I've had the top shear off sooner than I'd like, and the core doesn't expand. But, I've never lost a critter hit with a PT. Great Bullet!

I kinda enjoy the mumbo jumbo. What fun would posting be without it?

I don't think anyone implied that the PT is outdated. But it has been around since 1948 (or so). I wouldn't call it cutting edge either. The fact that it still has so many fans says volumes.
 
Great post chuckoholic.

The Partition is a workhorse bullet used all over the world for years. If Nosler believed that 100% weight retention was the key to dead animals they would design a bullet to do it. Nosler designed the Partiton to expand, retain 2/3 of its original weight, and still penetrate. I haved weighed many recovered Partitions and 65-75% weight retention is the norm. I've never seen a Partition open to soon, or fail to penetrate either.
 
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