Buck knives versus the exotics...

dan newberry

dan newberry

New member
Lots of guys have a knife fetish--and I've got no problem with that. A very nice custom made piece is an heirloom, and a joy to own I'm sure...

I've done a lot of reading about the various steels that are out there... their presumed advantages, etc.

I've actually bought some of the higher end knives, paying over 100 bucks in some cases--for knives that are supposed to have "the" steel in them. They're supposed to hold an edge better than anything out there, never rust, etc.

But when I go to work up deer each season, I have seen some of the presumed "better" knives coming in second to my Buck 112 and my Buck 110--as far as practical use goes.

I know that even Buck doesn't consider the steel in these knives their best--but I can't fault it. These knives hold an edge better than anything else I've used, and they'll take an edge (if you know how to sharpen them) quite easily.

When I was a kid... around 12 or 13 I think, I actually took a hammer and I drove the blade of my Buck 110 through a 3/8" bolt--just to see if their logo was false advertising or not. It worked. Yes, it made a ding in the honed area of the edge, but it sharpened right back out... the knife cut the bolt in two. My dad said I was an idiot. He was probably right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

So what is it about, say the steel in the Spyderco that cost me nearly 100 dollars? VG-10 or something like that it's called. Or that AS 34 or whatever. I haven't seen the advantages at all. These other steels can't touch the standard Buck steel, in my opinion. Sorry. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I think a lot of knives are made to fondle rather than use. You can usually spot the type when they're presented in a photograph... reposed against an antler, or pressed into some hand tooled sheath that cost more than a good knife itself ought to. I know that some guys actually do use these type knives, but I will likely remain skeptical that they're any more useful than a decent Buck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Dan
 
I bought one of the 30 dollar Buck pocket knifes from Walmart (don't know then model) and I use it for all of my skinning. Like you said it will hold a edge, and if it dulls a bit just a pass or two on the diamond stone and it's good to go. I haven't had a chance to try a (custom) knife but I'm sure there are so great ones out there.

John
 
I've seen them break with very little force on them (side force). That may be due to a bad batch of heat treating. They're not a good choice for hammering through an elk brisket, but I've had good luck using them for skinning.
I bought a couple of Gerber folders and carry them in the field.
 
A lot has to do with the hardness(Rockwell scale). When I started making knives 19 years ago, I tested a lot of knives. The Bucks ran from 57Rc to 58.7Rc. At 57Rc it was easy to sharpen but would not cut paper two times in a row. Cut the first and tear the second. The hardest Buck would take "days" to sharpen, but then it would do 3 deer. Your better Buck knives are going to test over 58.5Rc. For comparsion, a Nicholson file will be harder than 61.6Rc. Once you find a hard one, then you have to make sure it is tempered properly or it will be brittle. A file is kinda brittle. Knives are not made to hammer thru a bolt or a nail. They are made to cut stuff.
Dave
 
Dan, I remember those logo have one on a stockman with yellow handle think its collector value now. Also keep side pocket of truck a 110 have afew others most are 20yrs or older. I like to cary a good pocket knife have some made by Camillus,Case,Moore,K-Bar,Hen&Rooster. Here Moore site http://catalog.mooremaker.com/browseGroup.cfm?item_group_id=29383

I've got acouple of these
http://store.anzaknivesonline.com/prostores/servlet/Categories?category=Camping+Knives

I've got acouple Spyderco that I've won at some roping I use one as letter opener cann't get use to knife clipped to my pocket and too big as real pocket knife and there made in Japan.

I like a pocket knife to open a deer/elk then a larger knife for skinning or boning elk out that I keep in my pack.
 
The old Bucks were great. I carried my General through 69,70, and 71 in a far off tropical paradise. It never let me down. Haven't bought a Buck since 71.
 
I bought a buck 110 after my puma got taking away and used it on many deer but when i started killing elk i saw the need for a better knife got a puma whitehunter and found i could get through a hole elk without having to sharpen it.
Now i've got a handfull of custom knives that hold an edge better then any store bought knife that i've seen.
but i still own a few puma's i think they are the best store bought blade you can get.

Gary
 
I commercial fished halibut and king crab in AK as a kid, and carried a Buck fisherman (not sure of the mod number). Those knives saw hard use all day long from gutting and heading fish to cutting lines. I (we) sharpened the knives with a file, and the edges would last usually for days. I broke a couple of them (dropping crab pots on them) and Buck replaced them for free. Good company and good knives.

I've got a couple of "exotics" that are very fine knives, but 1)I'd never treat them the way I treated those working Bucks, 2)I doubt they would stand up to the abuse if I did, and 3)They wouldn't be replaced free/no questions if I broke them.
 
I've had good luck with both factory and custom knives. What I seem to find with factory knives is that one will be great and others of the same brand won't be worth sharpening. I have a Benchmark that is the best knife I have for holding and edge; better than my customs. My dad and son both bought the same model and neither one of them will hold an edge at all. I've seen that with other brands as well. I asked a guy who should know one time and he told me that the main difference between factory and custom knives isn't the steel type but the heat treating and tempering process. According to him, factory knives are treated in large ovens where the temperature can vary from one part of the oven to another. Because of this, one factory knife can be great and another mediocre or even poor. Most custom knives are treated in small ovens where the conditions can be controlled more carefully. Of course, if they don't do things correctly, they won't be any good either.

I'm definitely no expert, but it made sense to me.
 
Something else that has to be considered is that a knife needs to be properly sharpened to fairly compare it to another knife.

If you put the wrong angle on the edge, even the best knife won't do much...

I think that's one of the things I don't so much like about my Spyderco. The edge is on the steep side, or it seems so to me. But the Spyderco's blade is thick (I've got an Endura, and also a Delica). The steel is tough, and I don't think you'd have to worry about knocking the tip off the blade if you dropped the knife on the concrete with it open. I did trash a Puma like that once... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif It was one of the black rubber handled models, so it might not have had the same grade of steel that the stag handled models have.

I think knife companies and custom makers have to strike the best balance when it comes to choosing a steel, and also choosing a blade thickness and point design. If it's too blocky, it won't handle well. If it's too thin, it might break easily if you end up prying with it. And even though we all say we won't pry with our knives... sort of like pickin' your nose... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ...you'll do it when no one is looking. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The Spyderco Endura could probably pry a tire off a rim. It's that thick, and seems really tough.

If the Buck 110's and 112's were not so heavy, I'd carry one all the time. The Spyderco has the thumbhole opening feature (which they invented, and subsequently licensed to Benchmade), and I like that... plus I do like the pocket clip, and how thin the Endura and Delica models are... they're just not my favorite field knives--the Bucks will probably always be my favorites in that department.

Dan
 
MORA knives(yes the cheap ones) are nothing to look at with a plastic handle and all. But let me tell you they will cut you and you not know it. I have a draw full of them and put them everywhere I might need a knife. I have cleaned and gutted alot of critters with them.After owning many high end knives, I would put them up against any of them. They are #1 in my book and for 7 bucks a piece can't be beat!!
 
For the money I have a hard time finding a better knive than a Gerber have a folding Gator that done seven or eight deer last season with just a little wetin on leather during the season. Also have another just like it for a spare in my pack and a junior pocket knive I carry every day.
 
In my opinion as far as factory knives go there is none better than Case XX.I have skinned just about everything thats walked or crawled here in the east and Ive tried Buck and they dont keep an edge.Ive tried Old Timer and the blades break..Ive tried Gerber and they are alot like Bucks,hard to sharpen and dont keep an edge,but now Case will do all the above and then some...Ive never owned a Custom blade before,but when I get some extra cash Im going to get me a McCrosky..Ive seen alot of good things about them on this forum and they make a good looking skinner... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
i've had one custom knive and alot of pocket knives, tryed and traded for most anything made, know somebody that thinks each one of the brands is the best. my granddad love case and buck, i never got along with either. i like most of the german made pocket knives, tree brand, eye brand, kissing cranes, any of these in a 4in trapper and i will be happy. where i grew up "what pocket knive is the best", was as bad as "what gun is the best" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I have old Bucks (60's to early 70's) and newer Bucks. Like Dave McCroskey said. The hard (older) ones are difficult to sharpen, but stay sharp longer. The newer Buck knives are easy to sharpen, but don't stay sharp for as long. Walmart sells Buck knives that are made in China. I don't know about them as I won't own one of those. If I ever buy another knife, I want it to be a McCroskey knife.
 
Quote:
For the money I have a hard time finding a better knive than a Gerber



Yep, I have 2 folders (a 600 and a 650 Gator) and a 500 I carry as my pocket knife. I'm always hunting in the wet, and they develop zero rust.
That's a trade-off, you can make a better blade out of tool steel, but the stainless that Gerber uses is pretty darn good for holding an edge without being overly brittle. It makes for a good, cheap, all-weather hunting knife.
If I was going to spend all day cutting meat and skinning, I could do better with a custom high-carbon design. Of course, every time I dug it out of my pack, it would be rusty. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Probably one of the best fixed blade, under $50 hunting knives I've ever had was a Buck Vanguard. Had a couple of them, even have one engraved by Chuck Buck. Some Bucks are still made in the US I believe, most Gerbers are made in China.
 
Quote:
most Gerbers are made in China.



Mine are US made, I've had them a while. But good point, maybe they aren't as good as they used to be. I haven't really seen the quality of anything improve once it's shipped to China.
I won't carry a fixed blade knife hunting, there's just too much danger of falling on it and gutting yourself in the middle of nowhere. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Quote:
Quote:
most Gerbers are made in China.



Mine are US made, I've had them a while. But good point, maybe they aren't as good as they used to be. I haven't really seen the quality of anything improve once it's shipped to China.
I won't carry a fixed blade knife hunting, there's just too much danger of falling on it and gutting yourself in the middle of nowhere. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif



Old habits...you know what they say. I keep mine in the sheath in my pack so I think I'm safe. Besides I have a collection of fixed blades and it be a dam shame not to use them.
I believe for a long time Gerbers were made in Portland as several that were passed down to me by my late father are so marked. All the ones I've seen lately are made in China.
 


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