Call design copying?
- Thread starter TonyTebbe
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ninthinning
New member
"If you want to see a perfect example of this, visit custom calls on line. You will never find a more arrogant self centered bunch of call makers as you will there. Help? Your answer will be "you have to experiment and thry different thigns" No one wants the other guy to make calls because of the competition."
This statement reflects the theme of this thread very well. I went to this web site and found long detailed discussions on every aspect of call making. There are currently several great threads going on over there. For example there is a discussion on making segmented calls. This discussion is many pages long and is being led by a distinguished published author. There is a discussion on banding calls that is 4 pages long and loaded with interesting and helpful advice. I see where beginners ask questions and 10 or more people jump in to lend advice. There is a man over there who is a successful professional (busy) call maker and yet he helps every beginner with complex and detailed explanation. There is no fear of competition.
I am sure if you looked through their site you would find responses that are not satisfactory, but to select one or two statements out of thousands and condem an entire group of hard working call makers is not fair.
The same thing has happened to me here. TT went to my store and pulled out a few photos that create a slant that was used to prove his point that I copied his reed protector. I put tubing over my tone boards because they are sharp and I do not want one of my customers to get stabbed. I use cheap plastic tubing I buy in 5 foot lengths at Lowe's hardware.
From the mid 70's
Once again I say go to my store and look at my calls and you will see that I have not copied anyone. My store is www.americangamecalls.com
This statement reflects the theme of this thread very well. I went to this web site and found long detailed discussions on every aspect of call making. There are currently several great threads going on over there. For example there is a discussion on making segmented calls. This discussion is many pages long and is being led by a distinguished published author. There is a discussion on banding calls that is 4 pages long and loaded with interesting and helpful advice. I see where beginners ask questions and 10 or more people jump in to lend advice. There is a man over there who is a successful professional (busy) call maker and yet he helps every beginner with complex and detailed explanation. There is no fear of competition.
I am sure if you looked through their site you would find responses that are not satisfactory, but to select one or two statements out of thousands and condem an entire group of hard working call makers is not fair.
The same thing has happened to me here. TT went to my store and pulled out a few photos that create a slant that was used to prove his point that I copied his reed protector. I put tubing over my tone boards because they are sharp and I do not want one of my customers to get stabbed. I use cheap plastic tubing I buy in 5 foot lengths at Lowe's hardware.
From the mid 70's
Once again I say go to my store and look at my calls and you will see that I have not copied anyone. My store is www.americangamecalls.com
Last edited:
TheHuntedOne
New member
I made the statement in the opening of your post, and I stand by it.
I have been a member there for over 4 years. You need to spend more than a day there to get the jist of the board.
Look at the Predator Call forum. The question about drilling holes for the calls.
You got maybe 4 replies and not one of them is going to be very helpfull to the call maker. Yet here on PM, they could get a complete detailed breakdown of the entire process. That would NEVER happen on CCO, and it doesn't.
It's like the new Call Makers Guild they are forming. But only for people on CCO. Have you seen it posted on any other board on the net? No. And you will not. It is a very self centered closed world there.
You certainly might find discussions that you feel are helpful, but you need to actually become a member and follow the boards for a while to see what really goes on.
And NO, the same thing has not happened to you here. You have not been a participating member of this forum. If you were, you would be welcomed with opened arms. You would get answers to questions, support for your work, and encouragement to keep it up.
But when you come here, lurk around, and then near copies of other peoples stuff show up on E bay, well, it makes you look bad. Register as a HOB call maker. It will cost you 75 bucks, and post some call here. They will sell, and you will fit in I am sure.
As to your tone board protector....Rich Cronk has a unique way of protecting his reeds on his calls. I have talked about this with Tony Tebbe at length on the phone.
He, or I or anyone could easily copy Mr. Cronks idea, but it was Tony who said he would not do that out of respect for Mr. Cronk. Tony is a class individual. He does use the tubing as a reed protector, and has been doing so for a while now. Respect - it goes a long way.
As for your toneboard - let me give you a tip.
THe tubing that Tony puts on his toneboard is meant to protect the reed, not the hunter.
You need to sand the edges of your toneboard down so they are not sharp. The hunter is going to be putting it in his mouth, and if it cuts his lip, he is not going to be happy about it.
You turn some nice looking calls, and maybe we have not been completely fair with you, but maybe you have not been completely fair with us either.
Why not we start over? I am sure you would be an asset to the call makers here, new and old, and I am sure you would pick up some tips from us as well.
Trust me on this one thing....you will make your HOB fee back in about a week. I don't know of one call maker who has signed up who has not recouped the fee in short order.
I would love to see your work on Predator Masters, and I am sure that a lot of others would also.
Let's burry the hatchet on this one. I'll apologize for jumping on you, and I am sure others will too.
Again, I am sorry if we came off a bit harsh.
Al
THO Game Calls
I have been a member there for over 4 years. You need to spend more than a day there to get the jist of the board.
Look at the Predator Call forum. The question about drilling holes for the calls.
You got maybe 4 replies and not one of them is going to be very helpfull to the call maker. Yet here on PM, they could get a complete detailed breakdown of the entire process. That would NEVER happen on CCO, and it doesn't.
It's like the new Call Makers Guild they are forming. But only for people on CCO. Have you seen it posted on any other board on the net? No. And you will not. It is a very self centered closed world there.
You certainly might find discussions that you feel are helpful, but you need to actually become a member and follow the boards for a while to see what really goes on.
And NO, the same thing has not happened to you here. You have not been a participating member of this forum. If you were, you would be welcomed with opened arms. You would get answers to questions, support for your work, and encouragement to keep it up.
But when you come here, lurk around, and then near copies of other peoples stuff show up on E bay, well, it makes you look bad. Register as a HOB call maker. It will cost you 75 bucks, and post some call here. They will sell, and you will fit in I am sure.
As to your tone board protector....Rich Cronk has a unique way of protecting his reeds on his calls. I have talked about this with Tony Tebbe at length on the phone.
He, or I or anyone could easily copy Mr. Cronks idea, but it was Tony who said he would not do that out of respect for Mr. Cronk. Tony is a class individual. He does use the tubing as a reed protector, and has been doing so for a while now. Respect - it goes a long way.
As for your toneboard - let me give you a tip.
THe tubing that Tony puts on his toneboard is meant to protect the reed, not the hunter.
You need to sand the edges of your toneboard down so they are not sharp. The hunter is going to be putting it in his mouth, and if it cuts his lip, he is not going to be happy about it.
You turn some nice looking calls, and maybe we have not been completely fair with you, but maybe you have not been completely fair with us either.
Why not we start over? I am sure you would be an asset to the call makers here, new and old, and I am sure you would pick up some tips from us as well.
Trust me on this one thing....you will make your HOB fee back in about a week. I don't know of one call maker who has signed up who has not recouped the fee in short order.
I would love to see your work on Predator Masters, and I am sure that a lot of others would also.
Let's burry the hatchet on this one. I'll apologize for jumping on you, and I am sure others will too.
Again, I am sorry if we came off a bit harsh.
Al
THO Game Calls
Not to stray far off topic, but.
Sometimes, humans have the same/similar idea's around the [same time].
20 some yrs ago. I inventd a template to fit over a newly installed outlet on a stud wall. This template marked the [new sheetrock] for the cutout. Sent my idea & check, off to a Patent Attorney.
Around 12 months later. Recieved a "Patent denial". Seems...around a dozen other people. Thought of a similar tool, previous to me.
------------------
As for the [reed protector]. I've seen this same concept on farms. Farmers are always mending or fixing things. Often cheaply, but still effective.
Sometimes, humans have the same/similar idea's around the [same time].
20 some yrs ago. I inventd a template to fit over a newly installed outlet on a stud wall. This template marked the [new sheetrock] for the cutout. Sent my idea & check, off to a Patent Attorney.
Around 12 months later. Recieved a "Patent denial". Seems...around a dozen other people. Thought of a similar tool, previous to me.
------------------
As for the [reed protector]. I've seen this same concept on farms. Farmers are always mending or fixing things. Often cheaply, but still effective.
Moose57
New member
I guess the question should be, who is copying whom? If you think your design is an original, you are probably mistaken. That is not to say that you intentionally copied another's work, but there are just so many shapes you can turn a small round object into that are appealing. The fact of the matter is that Richard Grantham's calls look similar to Walt Bett's calls. THO's look like duck calls. My early calls were said to look similar to Rhino calls. I could go on. We are all influenced by our surroundings and what we see. Many times subconsciously. Jay Nistetter told me that he was influenced by calls he saw before he started call making. I was certainly influenced by Jay's calls. THO has been influenced by duck call makers. So is what we are making a copy? Probably. To an extent. Was it intentional? Probably not. At least for the most part. Are there those who intentionally steal designs? Of course there are. Who can say what came first, the chicken or the egg?
So if there are only so many designs, what can we do to set ourselves apart form others? Fit and finish can be one area. THO has some of the nicest finished calls out there. The sound our calls make is another area. There are makers whose finish isn't that great, but the sounds they make are among the finest to be found. Still others do carvings or laminating or checkering or whatever to their calls to set them apart from others. So which is the better call? The perfect sound or the perfect finish? That's something we get to decide for ourselves.
So I guess bottom line, if you are blatantly stealing other's designs, shame on you. If you are striving to make the best call you can that may have design features that are similar to another makers calls, keep up the good works. Chances are real good that none of us has a design or feature that hasn't been used somewhere or some how in the past. So we need to find something else to set ourselves apart from the run of the mill makers. Striving for excellence should be the goal for it is certainly a worthy journey. Worrying about who is copying whom is a waste of energy. Time to move beyond that and make some more calls. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Paul
So if there are only so many designs, what can we do to set ourselves apart form others? Fit and finish can be one area. THO has some of the nicest finished calls out there. The sound our calls make is another area. There are makers whose finish isn't that great, but the sounds they make are among the finest to be found. Still others do carvings or laminating or checkering or whatever to their calls to set them apart from others. So which is the better call? The perfect sound or the perfect finish? That's something we get to decide for ourselves.
So I guess bottom line, if you are blatantly stealing other's designs, shame on you. If you are striving to make the best call you can that may have design features that are similar to another makers calls, keep up the good works. Chances are real good that none of us has a design or feature that hasn't been used somewhere or some how in the past. So we need to find something else to set ourselves apart from the run of the mill makers. Striving for excellence should be the goal for it is certainly a worthy journey. Worrying about who is copying whom is a waste of energy. Time to move beyond that and make some more calls. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Paul
i've used clear plastic hose to protect my open reed calls for OVER 20 YEARS. my first open reed was a TallyHo. i wrapped electric tape around the barrel to build it up so an Olt duck call barrel would stay on it to protect the reed.(i also tie a squeaker to the call which fits inside the barrel). i've used the call for 30 years with the same reed. my second was an orange CritRcall. i think way back then they were called Poudre River Calls. that's the first one i put the rubber hose on.
i bought a call from timbertoes awhile back. talked to him on the phone...and told him that i used the clear hose as a reed protector. when i received the call in the mail it had a piece of the hose over the toneboard tied on with a piece of leather. i was actually flattered that he used MY idea.
look what i do with my Red Desert Howler. i take the end off, put it in rubber hose then stick the unit IN the barrel to protect the reed. it stays in tight so it won't get lost too. tell Dan "I" do that and I thought of it.
some of you guys take parts from production calls and put it on your call and call it a "custom call".
Why don't you figure out a new and different closed reed system instead of ALL using the JC Reeds in yout closed reed calls. that would be something to crow about.
i bought a call from timbertoes awhile back. talked to him on the phone...and told him that i used the clear hose as a reed protector. when i received the call in the mail it had a piece of the hose over the toneboard tied on with a piece of leather. i was actually flattered that he used MY idea.
look what i do with my Red Desert Howler. i take the end off, put it in rubber hose then stick the unit IN the barrel to protect the reed. it stays in tight so it won't get lost too. tell Dan "I" do that and I thought of it.
some of you guys take parts from production calls and put it on your call and call it a "custom call".
Why don't you figure out a new and different closed reed system instead of ALL using the JC Reeds in yout closed reed calls. that would be something to crow about.
Like has been said a hundred times before. There are only so many ways to turn a call on a lathe and if one call makers calls look like anothers could be that they had the same ideas and like the same shape. I have seen more than one callmakers calls that look very similar to what I make but I didn't make the call, they did, and when I look at them I think that person has similar tastes as me in shape and design. I am sure somewhere out there, there are calls that have been made long before I started making calls that look as if I used their design. Anyways just have fun making calls and hopefully they work up to your own expectations...Walt
ninthinning
New member
I have always felt this was a mean and dishonest post but now the photos have been removed leaving the wrong impression. Why is a post like this allowed to stand when it is so clearly dishonest?
9th
9th
Linvol Webb
Member
dukxdog Would you mind if I copy the ideal of using tube to cover the mouth of my open reeds.
doggin coyotes
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: ninthinning Why is a post like this allowed to stand when it is so clearly dishonest?
9th
WHY would a person dig a thread up that is over 3 years old and bring it to the top again?
9th
WHY would a person dig a thread up that is over 3 years old and bring it to the top again?
TonyTebbe
New member
I agree. I can't believe you dug this up after 3 years Eric. At the time, I was pointing out that there was a non-pm member that was putting out calls that closely resembled a bunch of different PM member call builders. It was a point in time, which since then, you've came on board as a call builder, came into your own style, and have been very successful here on PM. You should of let this post lay in the attic of history, not bring it back to the top.
The mods can delete it, that's fine with me.
Tony
The mods can delete it, that's fine with me.
Tony
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