Cooper or Kimber?????

philip

New member
Hello,
I`m new here and this subject has most likley been whipped to death already but please bear with me.
If you had your choice between the two which would it be and why?
I`m also looking at nightforce for my optics any feedback on them is also appriciated.

Thanks in advance.

Phil. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
I've never even shot a Kimber, but I just have to chime in and say I love my Cooper so much I ordered another one.

But to put my experience into perspective; I'm 40 something years old, and the nicest rifle I've ever had (before the Cooper) is a Remington 700. So I'm not saying I'm an expert on the topic of fine rifles.

If you snoop around the internet enough, you'll find some negative talk about Cooper. But as far as I can tell it was "growing pains" years ago and it pertained to rimfire rifles. I think they have their act together now.

The guy who talked me into trying a Cooper has about 9 or 10 Coopers and his dad has about 14 or so.
 
What specific rifles are you comparing and for what applications?

I have seen variable quality from both Cooper and Kimber. There was a Cooper varmint weight rifle in 25-06 at Cabelas in Hamburg,PA that had a barrel channel so far off that it touched the stock on one side.

I fired a Cooper .17 HMR that had been sold as a second as the stock had repairs to it. However that rifle was accurate smooth and attractive. I am not sure I would pay that much for it however as it still was over a grand.

I have four new Kimbers. In general the company really cares and the last one is a walking varminter in 243. That 84M Montana has been perfect out of the box in every way.

Also on the Nightforce. What are you after in a scope?
 
All three of the Kimber rifles I have owned in the past five years have new homes. One of them was "ho-hum" on accracy, the other two were down right terrible. One was a Super America and after you shell out $1400 for a rifle it had better shoot. But it too is gone.

I just put a deposit on Cooper #9. All of mine are shooters, varying from awesome to super awesome. One of them is a sporter weight 221FB that thinks its a target rifle. If I do my job (wherein lies a problem), sub 1/2 MOA groups are nothing to brag about. IMHO, comparing a Kimber to a Cooper is like comparing a Kia to a Ferrari. No dis-respect to the Kia.
 
Savage 99

I`m not comparing certain models,just manufacturers(sp?),i know that this is probably too broad of a post,but i`m more concerned with overall satasfaction with a manufacturer than getting into too many specifics.

With that said i`ll tell you that i`m leaning twords a Cooper in either .204 or .22-250(Montana varmint)for squirrels,groundhogs,rockchucks,basically any vermon with fur and a tail that crosses my path.

As for optics i`m considering a 8-32x56 nightforce.

Phil. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Cooper +1
However, there's no way in hell I'd put that big A$$ scope on a Cooper. That thing is 16" long ond over 2 pounds. Plus the 56MM objective is going to be bigger than the receiver and stock. May I suggest a Swarovski or Zeiss in 6X. THat would be a much more balanced rifle that would be usable in the field.

Just my $0.02
 
Last edited:
Claimbuster,

Sorry about your bad luck with Kimbers. All of us want it to work out of the box. Since the Coopers cost more perhaps on average they are better.

The first Kimber that I got is a 260 in a 84M Classic. After some effort I got one with a really nice stock. At first this action was a little stiff but with good lube it worked right in and it's as slick as can be. The trigger has always been as good as it gets for a sporter. Along the way I had Kimber change this one and another 84M to the three position safety.

After almost two thousand rounds it's no longer as accurate as it was. For about a year it would put the first two 95 gr VMaxs together at 100 yds and in 1/2 MOA at 200 yds. No more. Now it's a one MOA rifle or maybe a little better with that and other 100 gr bullets and only 1.25 MOA with heavier loads. I have now lost interest in the 260 anyway as I have many rifles with far more range for big game and better varmint rifles also. As to woods use why carry a 260 when you have three 358's and other fine carbines by ZB Brno?

So I am thinking of rebarreling it. At the moment it may be another 243 as a walking varminter. I like that cartridge so much for pests and a back up is what I always like.

I have other Kimbers that really satisfy me. More on them another time. My gun plan at the moment is to dispose of a M70 300 WM and get a Kimber 8400 in 300 WSM. That would make it my fifth Kimber.

I have been to the Kimber plant a few times and know some of the people there. Kimber is the largest donator to the NRA's shooters fund and the real star of firearms manufacturing today.

Good luck to all.
 
Welcome to the board Phil!

As usual, DAA has hit the answer on the head! If you are in the market for a rifle in that price range the Cooper is way above any Kimber.
 

Though I know that Cooper makes a great rifle, what if it doesn't fit your needs? When I got my Kimber I wanted a heavier barreled calling rifle than what I was using, but still wanted the weight at about 8.5 pounds scoped and loaded. Kimber could do that for me in a repeater (84M). Cooper couldn't. I got 1/2" out of the box on a easy carrying rig.
Realistically, better accuracy on a calling rifle won't kill any more coyotes for me, but the extra shots will. The tool has to fit the job. If and when I go looking for a quality singleshot, Cooper will be way up there on the list.
Dogleg
 
"Cooper. Kiimber isn't even in that race, in my opinion."

No facts here. Just a comment. Take it for that. The spelling of Kimber is even wrong.

I really don't think anyone hit a nail on the head. I have found that my Kimbers are very accurate and that the company cares. I have read that Cooper is hard to deal with on service and I have never heard that about the new Kimber co.

If Cooper made something that I wanted I would buy it but the one that I saw at Cabelas turned me off.

Another Kimber 84M that we have is a 7mm-08 Classic. This rifle is a true lightweight and not what Phillip wants in a varminter but it's good for less than MOA and it functions very well and looks great.
 
Savage99:

You might try landing your comment about what you "have read" about Cooper's service over at Saubier.com and see what it evokes. I think you'll find what you "have read" is far from the truth from people who have dealt directly with Cooper.

The good thing is service from Cooper is not often needed, but when it is, they bend over backwards to make it right.

Enjoy your Kimbers.

I hop i didunt mis-pell ani wurds. Fell fre too corekt me thought if yu fine won. - BCB
 
I'm with DAA and BCB on this one. Cooper's are more refined rifles. Also, as a side note, 90% of the Kimbers I've seen have stocks on them that look nothing like the ones in their catalogs. I also agree with Hoosierdaddy about the scope.--2MG
 
USMC:

These are just ball-park numbers, but a typical Cooper VE or MTV will range from @$950-@$1400, depending on caliber.

A typical Kimber will run in the $800 range and up over $1K, depending on the model, etc.

The primary difference between the two makes of rifles is that a Cooper is approaching a semi-custom rifle in that each action and stock are individually glass bedded together. Folks who see Coopers with poor bedding, etc. are most likely looking at a second hand rifle that someone has done their own gunsmithng on, and done it poorly.

With a Kimber, you have a stock meet a barreled action at some junction in the factory assembly process, just like with any other factory rifle. I have seen Kimbers NITB that the action will rock in the stock when you compress the forend and barrel with just hand pressure.

One advantage the Kimber has is that its a repeater. All Coopers in CF are single shot actions, but they are sold and marketed as such. However, many folks will actually order/purchase a Cooper in a light weight configuration along with options that will run the price of a Cooper well in to several thousand dollars. What you get however, is a VERY NICE rifle worth every penny you spend, and unlike any factory produced rifle anywhere. However, the same can be said for even a "bottom end" standard Cooper VE or MTV.

Also, one of the standard Cooper models or one with lots of extra options is a semi-custom rifle that doesn't show up in every gun shop. If you can find what you want in a Cooper in a store, you should buy it. If you can't, and order one, the wait may be approaching 6-9 months before you get your rifle since, again, they are a semi-custom proposition.

Other issues: Try buying a Kimber in 17 Mach IV, or 19-223, or 223 Rem AI, etc., etc. as examples of available calibers in a Cooper. The Cooper web site will add to what I've said and will probably better explain what a Cooper rifle is like if you haven't seen one.

http://www.cooperfirearms.com/ .

Bottom line: A Cooper is a very nice top end factory/semi-custom rifle with lots of caliber options, stock and metal options etc., which you can special order, and that you can't find in a factory rifle. A Kimber is a top end factory rifle that comes out of the box in only the factory variations that Kimber offers.

The slight difference in price does not reflect the difference in quality between the two. Several weeks ago I was in First Stop Guns in Rapid City, South Dakota - a gun shop that carries Coopers, Dakota Arms rifles, and just about any other rifle you can think of. A true candy store for gun nuts. The new Dakota Arms Predator rifle runs $2495 from the facory and when you compare it side by side with a Cooper at say $1100, the difference in quality between the two is not very great, IMHO. A Kimber looks nice in the factory displays, but is no match for the Coopers and Dakota Arms rifles which reflect a quality factory rifes just don't have.

In saying that, I really like the looks of the stainless and laminated Kimber varmint rifle, but would rather spend a little more money and get a rifle I can almost guarantee will shoot when I get it. I personally know of two unhappy former owners of the Kimber - one in 22-250 and one in 204 Ruger - that would not shoot any beter than any other of today's crap shoot factory rifles.

This is a long answer to your question, and I probably didn't really nail the prices exactly. I guess the main point I wanted to make is that a Cooper is not something you'll find in just any good gun shop around. A Kimber you likely will. And there's a reason for that difference.

- BCB
 
Damn, BCB! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Too much caffeine today buddy? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm no expert on Cooper's , but I've seen and shot a few. Very nice rifles. Kimbers, IMHO, do not shoot on average any better than a typical Remmy or Winchester, and not as good as a typical Sako or Tikka--2MG
 
I know I am going to get in trouble but I wouldn't buy either. Nothing wrong with either that I know of and they are good looking rifles.

I would find a used Remington 700 or a older Sako, long action or short depending on the caliber I was after. Throw the stock, barrel and trigger away. Get a custom trigger, custom barrel, and exactly the stock I wanted from Boyds or Richards. Have it all put together by a competent gunsmith. If I wanted a single shot I can put in a loading block or remove it when I wanted. I will have my own individual rifle with everything the way I wanted it and it would cost me less money than either the Cooper or the Kimber.
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top