Cooper or Kimber?????

After weeks of following this topic, I've waited long enough to respond to this thread...so here goes. I currently own 3 Cooper rifles, so I speak from experience. THEY STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT WITHOUT RESERVATION!!! In April 2004 I was working up loads for my Cooper Model 21 Montana Varminter in .223 AI Rem. I finally got up to 28gr of AA2230C when I had a Winchester WSR primer let go. First accident I've had in 40 yrs of reloading. The primer permitted 50,000+psi to vent into the ejector plunger tunnel in the bolt, blowing the plunger back into the bolt and freezing it into place. The plunger spring disintegrated in the process leaving a couple of small pieces in the joint of my right thumb and 3 small pieces in my face. No real damage to me, but the gun's bolt was another matter. The next day I contacted Cooper Firearms and spoke with Ron Behr and told him the whole story. All he said was for me to send the rifle back so they could repair it. Less than 4 weeks later the rifle was returned to me completely repaired...NO CHARGES AND NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Since then I have gotten rid of the AA2230C and only use CCI BR4 primers due to their cup being .006" thicker than the WSR primer cups. So much for Cooper service. The next question I can see coming is...does the gun still shoot. Here is the answer. August 2004 was the first time I shot competitively in a local Metallic Silhouette Prairie Dog match held monthly here in Tucson. The course of fire for Light Varmint class is five 5.5" x 2.5" ground squirrel targets at 100 meters, four 7" x 4" prairie dog targets at 200 meters, four 7" x 4" prairie dog targets at 300 meters, and five 9" x 5" ground hog targets at 385 meters. Each shooter gets 20 rounds for the 18 targets for each of 2 relays (40 rds for the match). The targets are scored in order of difficulty (range) from 5 points each at 100 meters to 20 points each at 385 meters. Perfect match score is 450 points. I used the repaired Cooper .223 AI to shoot a 420 for its first match after mounting a Leupold 12X scope I got off of e-Bay and shooting off a DOG-GONE-GOOD medium bag. My load is off-the-shelf Hornady 60gr Spire Point (flat base) bullets over 24gr of Alliant Reloder 15 in Lapua fireformed cases with CCI BR4 primers. Pretty humble gear compared to most of the competition. Well, not only did the little Cooper win First Place in Light Varmint class that day, but it also had high score for the match, Heavy Varmint class guns included. Since then I have not missed a match and I never fail to place, except the day I let my best friend use the rifle so he could get a taste of the sport. He placed third. Need I say more. I have many other delightful experiences I could share about my other 2 Cooper Model 21 Varminters (one in .221 Fireball and one in Tactical 20) but I'm sure that I'll never convince the sceptics who have never shot a Cooper. Maybe it's better this way. If the good folks at Cooper had to deal with the "attitude" exhibited in some of the responses seen here they might be forced to change their excellent service policy out of spite. As a final note, Dan Cooper was a former Kimber of Oregon employee until Kimber went belly up. Dan took many of Kimber's better points and started Cooper Firearms of Montana (hence their company icon of the Phoenix rising from its ashes). Now, a new company named Kimber is back in business and making guns in Yonkers, NY...but not with the same staff, workers or standards originally in place at Kimber of Oregon. That may be a bitter pill to swallow, but it is a fact!! As for my gun dollars, I know where they will be spent...where Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer's political cronies and Labor Union supporters can't touch them. And I'll get the BEST rifle in the process as my reward for my having done so!! Hey, what a deal.
 
Savage99 --- The extent of the checkering depends on the model you buy. The lower end rifles have panel checkering. When going to the higher grades, Custom Classic, Western Classic, VE, etc. the checkering does become wrap around and more extensive.

BTW, I watched the lady working at Cooper who does their checkering. She is an artist. No fancy equipment, just good workmanship.

Your comments about barrel channels got me looking closer. Guess I have been lucky but all of my Coopers are perfectly centered.
 
This one's still goin on eh? Ae35gunner, you don't have to convince me about Cooper being fine rifles. I like them. However, I must tell you, being a former employee of Kimber of Oregon is nothing to brag about. They made some of the nicest looking, non-shooting, POS in recent years. I guarantee you the new ones(NY) already shoot better, or they would be out of the rifle making business also. The Kimber of Oregon rifles were basically all out-sourced, different companies made all the different parts and then they arrived at Kimber of Oregon for final assembly. A very high % were crap. I can guarantee you he didn't "take" too many of KOO's "better" points, because there aren't any. The manufacturing process at Cooper in no way resembles the mere "assembly" process that went on in Oregon. I don't think you'll hear Dan Cooper doing much bragging about his former place of employment--2MG
 
2MG...Thanks for the insight about Kimber's past history. Guess those elevated prices for used KOO's help perpetuate the myth. I happened to run into a local gunsmith of some renoun at the range this past weekend and I mentioned the "discussions" I'd seen on PM between BCB and S-99. His comment..."there is NO comparison between the two". I'll let the readership figure out which rifle he thought was better. I think we both know that answer don't we. BTW you ever shot a Tactical 20 yet. If you haven't you need to treat yourself. At last month's P/D Silhouette match I entered it as Heavy Varmint (it is a Light Varmint class rifle, but I like challenges) against gunsmithed, benchrest class, hot-rodded .243's. I blew the 2nd relay, but I had the high score for the 1st relay (185 against 130 for a custom .243AI, and the rest were all lower). Ranges for Heavy Varmint are 200m, 300m, 385m and 500m (547yds). I started at 500m to make sure the rifle was capable and the load had enough retained energy to knock the 9" x 5" target off the stand. If it couldn't pass that test then there was no reason for me to continue. We ALL became believers that day. With some tricky wind (a usual condition for our range) it cleared 500m and 385m targets with greater ease than my competition. My load is 40gr Hornady V-Max over 24gr Alliant 10X in necked down, fireformed (30 deg shoulder) Lapua .223 cases with Winchester WSR primers. I also killed a coyote at 200yds with this round. It dropped like a rock and never moved again. Best of luck to you.
 
AE35--I'm kind of not understanding you here. If you are saying that there is no comparison between the Cooper and Kimber, new or old, I fully agree. Coopers are definitely more refined. I feel sorry for anyone paying elevated prices for KOO rifles--2MG
 
2MG--You have it right...what was meant was there is no comparison between Coopers and Kimbers, and that was from a very savvy gunsmith who has been in the business for 30+ years.
 
Took Cooper #9 out to the range today. I'm always tense when I take a new girl to her first dance. Its a 223 Varmint Extreme. Started with 10 rds of H335 behind a 50 gr. V-Max. Then tried two loads stronger than the first. Bad news. Then I tried 50 gr. BlitzKings and H335 (several variations) and more bad news. Now I am close to giving the rifle to my shooting partner. I am VERY unhappy. Then I remembered that one of my other Coops likes 50 gr. Noslers and W748. BINGO! I now have a shooter. Man, do I feel better.
 
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