coyote broadside shot placement

S

Spur

New member

Not wanting to change anyones mind on this topic but would like some feedback of others experience.

For 30+ years I've hunted coyotes with calibers from 17 Rem to 25-06. The 223 being my favorite calling caliber till the 204.
Most of those years if I had a standing broadside I shot behind the shoulder for a heart lung shot. Results varied, more with some bullets and some calibers than others. But more than half the time these shots produced spinners or runners.Sometimes just a few yards sometimes a 100 or more. Some with the heart destroyed went 40 or 50 yards. But head on frontal shots were almost always DRT regardless of caliber.
I started holding for the shoulder blade with 55 Nosler BT's in the 223 and every hit in that area resulted in an instant drop at calling distances from 15-200 yds. Mostly in the 50-150 range. No splashes and no exits.
Last season I started using a CZ in 204. The info from these forumns lead me to the 35 Berger going 3850 from the 21.9" barrel. I kept notes and started out with heart shots.The first 2 were runners. The next 3 were shot in the shoulder and dropped instantly not even any leg movement in the snow they fell in. The next 2 were heart shots and runners, with one going about 150yds on flat ground. Then a frontal shot at less than 20 yds DRT. The next 3 were shoulder hits and instant drops.
4 heart lung shots all runners.
6 shoulder shots instant drops
1 frontal at close range instant.
There were no exits and no larger than caliber entrance holes. I know this is only one bullet and not enough numbers to form an opinion but I have had similar results with 17 Rem,223,22-250,220Swift,and 243. I would greatly appreciate your experience and opinions on this.
 
I'm no expert but I think shoulder hits provide enough shock to the nervous system to drop them in their tracks where a heart lung shot doesn't provide enough energy to affect the nervous system. A frontal shot would put the bullet close to the spine if the animal is sitting or if not it would be close to the neck or shoulder to transfer energy to the spine. Also a shoulder hit would nock him off his feet and he would die before he could recover from the shock. I've seen deer shot to high in the back and drop in their tracks and get up and take off after a few minutes like nothing is wrong with them.

Just some of my thoughts on it.
 
Thanks Cooper, I've seen the same thing on deer.
I do think bullet construction has to be tough enough to break bone in the small calibers for coyote.
 
Cooper pretty much nailed it.

A high shoulder shot will likely at least temporarily paralyse the animal even if you don't actually hit the spine, and often result in at least temporary loss of consciousness as well.

If the bullet (or bullet fragments) also went through the top of the lungs, the animal will likely suffocate (drown in it's own blood) and never wake up.

If the hit is close to the cervical region, the shock could easily shut down the autonomous nervous system and stop the heart, even though it may not be physically damaged at all.

What can go wrong?

If you shoot high shoulder shots and you use a bullet that's too light, too frangible (v-max, etc) for the conditions at point of impact, or you hit hard bone, you can get a surface splash that doesn't even slow the coyote down, and may only kill him after weeks of suffering (if at all).

If you shoot "high shoulder" on larger game (deer etc) and hit just a little low, there's an area above the vitals and below the spine (coyotes too, but it's correspondently smaller), where a non-fragmenting bullet can pass completely through and not be a mortal wound at all.

If you hit a little high and far back, you can "spine" the animal causing it to be paralysed behind the shoulders. It's still not going anywhere, but that will normally ruin the taste of the meat in deer etc.

Nevertheless, it's a very high percentage "stop it right there" shot. Many big game guides advocate using it for trophy hunting for just that reason, and our own Byron South (and others) want shoulder shots with a bullet that's big enough to break bone, just because it will be much cleaner looking on film.

So why use "boiler room" shots?

It's an easier target to hit from a variety of different angles.

A shot that hits heart, lungs, liver, or major arteries will ALWAYS kill your prey. Even a pencil hole is 100% effective.

It can also result in some runners (though they will die). A nicked lung can take hours to kill, and even a blown up heart can leave an animal able to run for 15-30 seconds.

Either way works, but I tend more towards the high shoulder/heavy bullet camp.
 
You say similar results with the 22-250?? I can't confirm that one, at least not with a 40gr nosler BT. Any shot behind the shoulder put them down immediately.
 

NMLEON

Thanks for a very informative post. I especially like your last line "either way works" I was just gettin a little to set on one method.

SORELOSER

Thanks for the info on the 40 BT in the 250. I just assumed that bullet would have a tendency to splash at 22-250 velocity, so never tried it. How does it work on frontal shots where it has to go through more mass to get to the boiler room? Do you think it would hold together on a shoulder hit?
 
First off I shoot a Rugar M77 .223 using 55 gr soft points.
Every coyote that I have shot broadside, except one, required a followup shot- usually as they were spinning. Hince my rule not to quit shooting till they quit moving since they are usually just getting wound up to run. Without snow recovery is next to impossible. Even with good tracking snow it can be hugely difficult. On all my recovered animals the first shot usually took out one front leg, with fragments to the chest area. The next shot is most often also broadside and is all that is needed. Why #2 boadside puts them down and #1 doesn't I don't know. If I happen to break the back/shoulder they obviously don't go anywhere, but this is not a shot I try to make.
Coyotes are tought with a huge will to live.
This last Saturday I was heading out to call when I ran into 3 coyotes at about 100 yards. I had a good rest and hit one farthest to the left (broadside). He didn't go into a spin, just stumbled and took off, slowly. I tracked him threw a draw and into an open field where he was laying down. I blew the followup shot and he took off again, slowly, stopping at the top of the ridge and laying down. I watched for awhile, he would get up, move a little then lie down again. I figured he wasn't long for the world so I went back for the ATV. Long story (and tracking job) short, I jumped him out of his "death bed" and the critter moved another mile over rough terrain before I lost the trail. He bled heavely at times and was not hard to follow. I am to assume I hit him in the liver. I have tracked gut shot coyotes that didn't go so far before dieing.
Don't know if this helps, just my observations.
 
Federal, blue box, is all I remember off the top of my head.

I will say that the reason I don't try for the shoulder/spine shot is the huge blowouts those hits cause.
 
Last year after getting a new rifle built a 358 win on a model 70 platform I decided to test it out but haveing missed the end of deer season by a couple of weeks I went to call coyote.I did manage to call one in and at 30-35 yds stopped him and shot him broadside with a 225 gr Sierra s.p.I never found that coyote.
Tough indeed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif
 
I rarely hunt with my 223 any more because so many ran off. I now hit them in the shoulder with a 308 and recovery has went way up.
 
White Eagle, Daddyflea, Thanks for your input.

Would you say a large caliber through the lungs that does not expand doesn't always putem down any better than a small caliber that does expand,putting most of it's energy into the body?
I've had runners with the 243 with lung shots and quarter size exits. Have also had them DRT with a 17 Rem with the same kind of hit and no exit. The 17 definitely caused more internal tissue damage.
I like the small calibers for the lower noise level and being able to see the instant reaction from bullet impact. Maybe the choice of lung shot or shoulder shot could be made more by bullet selection than caliber. Of coarse larger is always better if it fuctions properly.
 
I use to hunt with a 270 and have had more coyotes get away after being shot due to poor shot placement.Couple 3 months ago i purchased an ar-15 and out of about ten coyotes shot i lost only one. You can shoot a coyote with an elephant gun if you want to and it can get away I personally subscribe to the shot placement theory over caliber size any day due to personnel experience your mileage may vary
 
I shoot 40g v-max out of my .223 and out of 9 dogs this year I've had 1 runner due to shooting way too far back, the reast were all bang flops, along with the bancg flops on my cats and greys this year. Shot placement is the key, but even a few of my bad shot's didn't produce runners..
 
My first post since rejoining PM. Was under differnt name 3-4yrs ago. Just lost pace. Only been coyote hunting a handful of times since moving from Kansas to missouri.

Anyhow, I use a 22-250 with 55gr. Vmax and every shot I put on shoulder or behind shoulder was bang flop. With 270yrds ending in same result. Seems to me shot placement and bullet type are the biggest factors. Love those v-max.
 
Quote:
I use to hunt with a 270 and have had more coyotes get away after being shot due to poor shot placement.Couple 3 months ago i purchased an ar-15 and out of about ten coyotes shot i lost only one. You can shoot a coyote with an elephant gun if you want to and it can get away I personally subscribe to the shot placement theory over caliber size any day due to personnel experience your mileage may vary



Shaunt, Gotch'ur back on that one buddy !!
 
A 55gr Nosler in the head neck chest lung put nearly every single coyote down like it was hit with lightning. Had one shoulder shot take off, it made it 30yds before piling up. One low chest shot went 50 yds, she was dead also, I think a little fragment made it up into the lung. 1/2" lower I would have missed.
With the 35gr Berger a lung shot seems to let them run 30-50yds, they are dead on their feet. I hit some in the high shoulder area, they went down to stay.T.20
 
I have always tried to make shoulder shots, but will take head shots if it is close enough. I'm not really worried about meat with a shoulder shot on a coyote like I would be on a deer.
 
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