coyote broadside shot placement

My $.02

Bullet construction and placement. My AR in .223 with Speer 52grn HP's usualy = DRT from a center punched yote, regardless of angle. There are always a few exceptions- but that seems the rule.
SP's gave me many spinners and runners that I wasnt happy with.

Maybe my rifle skillz got better so placement is more precise? but I have had great luck with the bullet and cartridege so stick with what works for me.
 

TACTICAL.20

Your experience with the 35 berger is just what I'm getting. The high shoulder shots are DRT. However I had basically the same experience's with the 55 BT in the 223. The lung shots were short runners and most had 1-2" exit wounds. All the shoulder shots I have made with the 55 BT in 223 and 22-250 have been DRT.
 
When I was shooting a lot of red fox I would aim for the head most of the time. Most of my shots were 70-325yds, with the .223 fmjbt. I should shoot for the head more often on coyotes, I guess I have been sometimes going for the center of the bigger target, lungs.T.20
 

It was the nosler ballistic tip in the 223 going about 3100. I used it in the 22-250 for awhile and it dropped them most of the time with lung hits but did leave some large exits.
 
Shot placement and bullet type depend on whether you are saving fur. Out of the seven Yote's I've shot this year, six have been in the high shoulder/neck area. All have been dead flop. All have also done a lot of damage. Doesn't matter if it is a 70 gr Nosler BT or a 70 gr Speer TNT hollow point in my .243. The guy I went hunting with on Xmas is shooting a 22-250 with 48 gr hollow points. His first Yote of the day was in the rear spine and it looked like a cannon had hit it. His next one was right through the heart/lung with the same load and it didn't move. He's been working with the load for years and has it to where the bullet enters and blows up with no exit. This seems like the best path to take simply because your fur buyer will like you a lot more. Looks like I need to go back to the drawing board...
 
Spur

Experienced inflicting my first splash wound last year. I was using a 32gr VMax .204 and hit a yote squarely in the shoulder at 35 or 40 yards. The dog got away. Needless to say, I wasn't pleased. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Since then I've switched to 35gr Bergers with good success. However, I've still been hesitant to try another shoulder shot, even though I much prefer them. Good to hear the Bergers are performing for you, even at close range. Sounds like I need to give the .204 another chance at shoulder placement.
 
SHEEPFARMER

The 32 v'max shoot well in my 204 but do expand rapidly on small critters. I think they might do well on coyotes with broadside lung /heart shots but then what happens with a head on frontal or angle shot?
I know the 40 v'max in the 223 will splash with a shoulder hit.
I do think you will like the 35 Berger. Seems to work for every angle and have yet to have an exit with the exception of a poorly placed edge hit.
I see Nosler has a new 32gr ballistic tip with boat tail for the .20's. Just might be enough tougher than the v'max. Havn't heard any results with it yet.
 
What an interesting discussion.
I shoot a .204 with 40 gr. Vmax.
Have had at least two runners.
Is everyone saying that a shoulder shot would be better than a behind-the-shoulder ribcage shot?
Just worried that the Vmax would not penetrate???
Or is that what everybody is talking about with "splash?"
So even with a V-max, a shoulder shot might end up with nerve or structural damage that would prevent running and not just a wounded animal??
May have to make the effort to change my point of aim.
Googled Berger bullets. They look really pricey. Are they that much better than the V-max?

Bob C., Globe, Az.
 
In my experience, a shoulder shot, that being one that actually hits the large bone or ball joint, is a bad call for any caliber up to and including the 22-250. I imagine many of the guys getting they sought after "DRT" as it's affectionately called, are actually hitting a high shoulder hit, passing thru the shoulder blade and not hitting the joint of leg bone, or just missing the bone?
I avoid middle shoulder shots like the plague, Ive seen to many run offs, from deep splashes, occuring when the bullet blows up on the ball joint or large bone. I always advise a behind the shoulder shot, hitting the comparatively large kill zone laying behind the shoulder, lungs, liver or heart is the shot is low in the chest cavity. The spinner or sprinters will occasionally occur with behind the shoulder shots or liver shots, but so what, they are running dead,and only travel a short distance before piling up, much better than having a splash on the ball joint, and running forever, leaving you with only a blood trail,and no coyote at the end. Pick your poison, but I want a dead coyote, not a cripple.
 

RCORLY

Thanks for sharing your experience's. My point was just that , a good discussion of others experience.
I have had the splash effect with lightly constructed bullets on shoulder bone and had them run off on three legs never to be found. I have also put match type hollow points through both lungs leaving 1" or larger exits and spent considerable time searching thick cover to find them. I've also seen them go down instantly with lung shots from bullets like the v'max.
I don't know if the shoulder shot with a match type bullet that drops them in their tracks is any better than a boiler room shot with a faster expanding bullet that lets them run a few yards dead on their feet. I think it's shooters choice and what works for them and the load they are using.
The 35 Berger seems to be able to do both in my limited experience with it and still get by with few exits or splash on bone.

CHILEROJO

I think you are right on with the shoulder blade hit and DRT. That is my prefered shot with the 35 Berger in 204 and the 55 ballistic tip in the 223. No exits, no splash,just DRT.
I also agree with the boiler room being a bigger target with more room for error in shot placement. I'm thinking that might be the preffered shot for most. The downside if there is one is that occasional expanding bullet that for some reason didn't expand and punches through leaving a runner never to be found. This was the shot I prefered for years and had not many but a few disappointments. So far I havn't been disappointed with the shoulder shot with the right bullet but am sure in time I will.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
 
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White Eagle, Daddyflea, Thanks for your input.

Would you say a large caliber through the lungs that does not expand doesn't always putem down any better than a small caliber that does expand,putting most of it's energy into the body?
I've had runners with the 243 with lung shots and quarter size exits. Have also had them DRT with a 17 Rem with the same kind of hit and no exit. The 17 definitely caused more internal tissue damage.
I like the small calibers for the lower noise level and being able to see the instant reaction from bullet impact. Maybe the choice of lung shot or shoulder shot could be made more by bullet selection than caliber. Of coarse larger is always better if it fuctions properly.



The 223 with the right bullet will kill almost anything but here is the problem. Sometimes hitting bone with a fast expanding bullet will just explode. Nicking a piece of grass causes the bullet to explode. Using tough bullets causes over penetration resulting in runners. A big gun that hits no bone will pass right through but it leaves a bigger hole for blood loss. I use ballistic tips in my 308 but so far I have no blow ups. I have a really good 223 AR with a Leopold 3X9X50 shooting Remington core lock bullets and quite often I get run offs. It does not happen with the 308 or at least it has not so far. Our furs here are useless. It cost more gas to drive them to a fur dealer than you can get for prime perfect pelts, so I don't worry about fur. Most of mine are mangy anyway.
 
Well, it seems that everyone here is talking about how there is sometimes problems with a shoulder or behind the shoulder shot...so, why not take a head shot...it is a samller target but at least with a head shot he is either DRT or not hit at all...there is a much smaller chance of wounding one when you take a head shot

Just My .02

Cody
 
First of all great post!!

Being involved in the filming aspect of predator hunting we want everything to drop in its tracks. I dont like runners, spinners or anything of the sort. Years ago it really wasnt that big of deal, but the vast majority of people who watch videos want to see em down right now.

The best way we have found to do this on a consistant basis is to shoot for the shoulder blade with a heavy bullet capable of penetration. We first started doing this with 22-250's shooting 55gr. sierra gameking BT HP's. The caliber and bullet combination was deadly on any hit, expecially shoulder blade hits.

When we swapped to the AR's we looked for a heavy bullet with similar ftlb's of energy. Shooting the Hornady Match 75gr HP's shoulder shots are much the same as with our 250's, down right there. Even dropping down in caliber the .223 is very capable of consistent DRT's on the shoulder. To the down side of this bullet, a lung/heart shot will produce a few runners. They dont expand well in soft tissue and lack energy dispersal here. Heart shots will likely run with any caliber, its just what you have to expect. Lung shots are usually hit and miss, and it usually depends on the animal, angle and situation. Some will not twitch and some will run for the hills. We have not had anything go over 50 yards with the 75's.

Facing shots- will more than likely be DRT with any caliber, it is the hardest shot, but if hit sqaure will drop em for sure. Likely no exits and all the energy is absorbed.

Quartering twords shots- with most bullets will drop em in their tracks. Heavy bullets will shine with any square hit. Easier than facing with much the same results. Lots of energy is absorbed, much like facing shots.

Broad side shots- will produce more runners than any, lung and heart shots are finiky when it comes to predicting runners and spinner. Shoulder blade hits will give you consistent DRT's with the right bullet/caliber combination. Energy is fully absorbed with shoulder blade hits, and sometimes lost in the rib cage with pass throughs.

Parting shots- This is were I like the heavy bullets. You have alot of bone and tissue to contend with, and light bullets will often not do enough damage to stop em for another finishing shot. Lots of energy is absorbed, but its along way from the heart(sounds like my old football coach.) Will likely take another shot to finish the job.

I agree with what has been said about shots high in the shoulder or back. This usaually drops em in there tracks, but will have more animals try and get back up. They are hit hard, and rarely will make it back to their feet IMO. This will also cause the most fur damage out of all the hits.

Thanks for the great post, you will get alot of different opinions here. Take what you feel will adapt best to your experince and have fun.

Take care,

Todd
 
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ChileRojo is absolutely on the money with his comments on shoulder versus right behind the shoulder. Most of my runners over the years have been square on shouler with the blade looking like a landmine went off. Right behind the shoulder does the bandg flop, usually without the death spin. Lungs and heart....get it behind the shoulder. Also ruin a lot of fur if straight on shoulder with the splatt effect.
 

Todd

Thanks for a very informative post. I especially like your closing line. "take what you feel is best from your experience and have fun"

I used a 243 for a couple seasons, 83 and 84 I think. A 70 gr Seirra match bullet with just over a starting load. I didn't have a chrono then so don't know velocity but it performed very much like you discribe the 75 hornady in the AR.

I admit my passion for smaller calibers in order to reduce noise level and have the target in feild of view at the moment of impact may be going in the wrong direction for some situations. There is a lot to be said for the 60- 80 gr bullets on a +40lb dog if you really want to give him an anchor.

Reminds me of years ago when we were all hanging around the gun shop talking about moving up to the 22-250's and 220 swifts from our 222's and 22 hornets, and how much more effective they were. A farmer brought 2 coyotes into the fur buyer. His 12 year old son had slipped up over the frozen pond bank and killed them both with a 22 rimfire. His squirrel rifle.

Two head shots from his 22 and two DRT's

More'n one way to skin a cat?
 
I always try to shoot them in the eyeball, never had any runners , of course never hit very any either. Seriously like my 6mm / 284 centermass is drt to 400 and some beyond.
 
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I must be lucky, as the only load I have used is the Winny white box 45Gr in the 22-250. Placing the shots in the boileroom from diffent angles usually is bangflop,with the longest run of about 20 Yd's. Shots have been from 102--325 Yrd's out of my Savage 12fv. Yes it is heavy,but off of shooting sticks I have the confidence to make long accurate shots. Rifleman2
 
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