Coyote population in your state?
- Thread starter bhw
- Start date
This page (http://www.shagbarkridge.com/info/coyote.html) mentioned 20,000 for Indiana, but unsure of it's date.
I had to post this portion of the page:
A few years ago, the Sierra Club and the U.S. Forest Service were presenting an alternative to Wyoming ranchers for controlling the coyote population. It seems that after years of the ranchers using the tried and true methods of shooting and/or trapping the predator, the tree-huggers had a "more humane" solution. What they proposed was for the animals to be captured alive, the males castrated and let loose again and the population would be controlled. This was ACTUALLY proposed to the Wyoming Wool and Sheep Grower's Association by the Sierra Club and the USFS. All of the ranchers thought about this "amazing idea" for a couple of minutes. Finally, an old boy in the back stood up, tipped his hat back and said, "Son, I don't think you understand the problem. Those coyotes ain't breedin’ our sheep, they're eatin' 'em!
I had to post this portion of the page:
A few years ago, the Sierra Club and the U.S. Forest Service were presenting an alternative to Wyoming ranchers for controlling the coyote population. It seems that after years of the ranchers using the tried and true methods of shooting and/or trapping the predator, the tree-huggers had a "more humane" solution. What they proposed was for the animals to be captured alive, the males castrated and let loose again and the population would be controlled. This was ACTUALLY proposed to the Wyoming Wool and Sheep Grower's Association by the Sierra Club and the USFS. All of the ranchers thought about this "amazing idea" for a couple of minutes. Finally, an old boy in the back stood up, tipped his hat back and said, "Son, I don't think you understand the problem. Those coyotes ain't breedin’ our sheep, they're eatin' 'em!
Jeff Mock
Active member
Near as I can tell, here in Arizona, we have a Coyote Factory. You zap one, and they make about 6 more. Here is a story I found. It was written by your typical "ANTI", but effectivley illustrates the coyotes numbers here is Arizona.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif No SHORTAGE HERE /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
JUNE 2003 -- The Arizona Game and Fish Department has contracted with the Department of Agriculture, Wildlife Services to shoot coyotes from fixed wing aircraft in our state. Wildlife Services is the new name used by the highly criticized program that used to be known as Animal Damage Control. According to records obtained by ADLA under Arizona’s Public Records Act, Wildlife Services is shooting coyotes in three areas: north of Seligman, on Anderson Mesa southeast of Flagstaff, and northwest of Snowflake. The Arizona Game and Fish Commission agreed to pay $30,000 to Wildlife Services for coyote killing this year. A special pronghorn antelope license tag program referred to in an agreement between the commission and the Arizona Antelope Foundation raised $9,000. It is unclear where the balance of funds came from, and if they were spent this year. Wildlife Services’ total budget for Arizona was over one million dollars in 2001. Less than half of that came from sources other than Wildlife Services.
The contract says gunning is to occur between March 24 and May 31, 2003. Shooting had not begun as of April 12. Records indicate that they also plan aerial coyote gunning in 2004 and 2005.
Game and Fish records state that the purpose of gunning is “to temporarily reduce coyote populations in site-specific areas to affect a decrease in predation on newborn pronghorn antelope fawns over a period of years....” The real problem isn’t predators, which are essential to a healthy ecosystem; the truth is that antelope populations are declining because of habitat loss, drought, and overgrazing of cattle. Fawns survive by hiding from predators in tall grass. Because their habitat is so hammered by overgrazing, the fawns have nowhere to hide. More fawns may survive for a short time, but the long-term picture is grim. Despite years of aerial gunning, antelope populations are still declining in Arizona. The sound wildlife management approach would be long-term programs to improve habitat. By preserving habitats while they still exist and limiting grazing and fence building, Game and Fish could provide long-range solutions. Such “Band-Aid” measures as aerial gunning would become a bad memory.
What’s more, the coyote population, following a massacre of this kind, will rebound with a population surge. And in spite of their concern for the survival of antelope fawns, Game and Fish continues to allow antelope hunting. Add it all up, and it suggests that Game and Fish merely wants to prevent coyotes from killing this year’s batch of antelope fawns so that they can grow up and be killed by hunters.
The Game and Fish Department should be representing the interests of all Arizonans, not just hunters, who are a tiny minority. Predators are necessary to keep the populations of their prey in check and to eliminate the weak and sick of a species to keep the herd strong. They also help the ecosystem by keeping their prey moving from one area to another, thus preventing overgrazing. We need a Game and Fish Department and Commission that do not view predators as harmful and in need of disposal.
Please contact Governor Napolitano and the Game & Fish Department and Commission and let them know that you oppose aerial gunning. Contact information is below. For further information on aerial gunning visit the website of AGRO, A Coalition to End Aerial Gunning of Wildlife, at www.goagro.org.
Please contact Governor Napolitano and the Game & Fish Department and Commission and let them know that you oppose aerial gunning. Contact information is below. Write your own letters, or click here to view sample letters that you can edit or print. If you write your own letters, tell them:
Send letters to:
Mr. Duane Shroufe
Director
Arizona Game & Fish Department
2221 W. Greenway Rd.
Phoenix, AZ 85023-4399
dshroufe@gf.state.az.us
FAX: (602) 789-3299
Arizona Game & Fish Commisioners
c/o Director Shroufe at above addresses
Chair: Joe Carter
Commissioners: Michael M. Golightly, Susan E. Chilton, W. Hays Gilstrap, Joe Melton
The Honorable Janet Napolitano
Governor of the State of Arizona
1700 W. Washington
Phoenix, AZ 85005
(Calls and faxes are preferable to emails)
Phone: 602-542-4331 (Just say that you oppose the Aerial Gunning Plan by Game & Fish)
Fax: 602-542-1381
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif No SHORTAGE HERE /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
JUNE 2003 -- The Arizona Game and Fish Department has contracted with the Department of Agriculture, Wildlife Services to shoot coyotes from fixed wing aircraft in our state. Wildlife Services is the new name used by the highly criticized program that used to be known as Animal Damage Control. According to records obtained by ADLA under Arizona’s Public Records Act, Wildlife Services is shooting coyotes in three areas: north of Seligman, on Anderson Mesa southeast of Flagstaff, and northwest of Snowflake. The Arizona Game and Fish Commission agreed to pay $30,000 to Wildlife Services for coyote killing this year. A special pronghorn antelope license tag program referred to in an agreement between the commission and the Arizona Antelope Foundation raised $9,000. It is unclear where the balance of funds came from, and if they were spent this year. Wildlife Services’ total budget for Arizona was over one million dollars in 2001. Less than half of that came from sources other than Wildlife Services.
The contract says gunning is to occur between March 24 and May 31, 2003. Shooting had not begun as of April 12. Records indicate that they also plan aerial coyote gunning in 2004 and 2005.
Game and Fish records state that the purpose of gunning is “to temporarily reduce coyote populations in site-specific areas to affect a decrease in predation on newborn pronghorn antelope fawns over a period of years....” The real problem isn’t predators, which are essential to a healthy ecosystem; the truth is that antelope populations are declining because of habitat loss, drought, and overgrazing of cattle. Fawns survive by hiding from predators in tall grass. Because their habitat is so hammered by overgrazing, the fawns have nowhere to hide. More fawns may survive for a short time, but the long-term picture is grim. Despite years of aerial gunning, antelope populations are still declining in Arizona. The sound wildlife management approach would be long-term programs to improve habitat. By preserving habitats while they still exist and limiting grazing and fence building, Game and Fish could provide long-range solutions. Such “Band-Aid” measures as aerial gunning would become a bad memory.
What’s more, the coyote population, following a massacre of this kind, will rebound with a population surge. And in spite of their concern for the survival of antelope fawns, Game and Fish continues to allow antelope hunting. Add it all up, and it suggests that Game and Fish merely wants to prevent coyotes from killing this year’s batch of antelope fawns so that they can grow up and be killed by hunters.
The Game and Fish Department should be representing the interests of all Arizonans, not just hunters, who are a tiny minority. Predators are necessary to keep the populations of their prey in check and to eliminate the weak and sick of a species to keep the herd strong. They also help the ecosystem by keeping their prey moving from one area to another, thus preventing overgrazing. We need a Game and Fish Department and Commission that do not view predators as harmful and in need of disposal.
Please contact Governor Napolitano and the Game & Fish Department and Commission and let them know that you oppose aerial gunning. Contact information is below. For further information on aerial gunning visit the website of AGRO, A Coalition to End Aerial Gunning of Wildlife, at www.goagro.org.
Please contact Governor Napolitano and the Game & Fish Department and Commission and let them know that you oppose aerial gunning. Contact information is below. Write your own letters, or click here to view sample letters that you can edit or print. If you write your own letters, tell them:
Send letters to:
Mr. Duane Shroufe
Director
Arizona Game & Fish Department
2221 W. Greenway Rd.
Phoenix, AZ 85023-4399
dshroufe@gf.state.az.us
FAX: (602) 789-3299
Arizona Game & Fish Commisioners
c/o Director Shroufe at above addresses
Chair: Joe Carter
Commissioners: Michael M. Golightly, Susan E. Chilton, W. Hays Gilstrap, Joe Melton
The Honorable Janet Napolitano
Governor of the State of Arizona
1700 W. Washington
Phoenix, AZ 85005
(Calls and faxes are preferable to emails)
Phone: 602-542-4331 (Just say that you oppose the Aerial Gunning Plan by Game & Fish)
Fax: 602-542-1381
Jeff, you live not to far from coyote heaven. A place where a caller can call in more coyotes then he can put in the back of his truck, problem is you can't hunt there anymore lol. bhw, out west the coyote population is holding it's own like it always does. Some areas hold alot of coyotes and many more don't, depends where your at, alot of coyotes to one person my not be alot to another. Gentlemen, I for one am not in favor of shooting coyotes from the air. These guys slater the coyotes and that's what I like to hunt. In some western states they charge the hunter an extra 2 or 3 dollers on there hunting lic for predator control instead of the taxpayer like it always use to be.
Jeff Mock
Active member
I agree, The republic of Kalifornia does hold a few dogs, it's just too bad they're more protected than the children are in that state. Arizona is about as close to Coyote heaven as you can legally get. I too disagree with the practice of gunning them from the air. There are enough sportsman here to help with the problem if given the opportunity to do so. I've NEVER met a rancher here in Arizona that was upset about hunting coyotes of lion on their ranches. They welcome us with open arms when we ask permission, and they even give very detailed directions to where the predation problems are occuring on their ranches. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Jeff- It almost seems that AZ would be financially better off if they'd put a bounty on the 'yotes? I'd think it'd have to be less expensive than an air-shoot, and would give alot of hunters the enjoyment of their sport, as well as maybe making a buck or two (and recoup their lisc fees).
Jeff Mock
Active member
You said a mouthful there! I know of quite a few hunters that would love to save the state of Arizona some airplane fuel, just to be in a target rich environement. I guess their line of thought is kinda like the $10,000 toilet seat, or the $3000.00 hammer. Sometimes they just make no sense. Even with what they have done, there are still more than enough coyotes to go around.
BionicPossum
New member
Here in West Virginia, coyotes were almost unheard of about 10 or 12 years ago. One of my neighbors said he seen a few back then.
Personally, I still have only seen about 2 or three myself, but I have heard a lot more stories about them in the last couple years.
My neighbor shot one in his back yard in May. That's the first one I've heard about in our neighborhood. My friend told me that he trapped 7 coyotes and 1 bobcat last fall and winter. I'd say that their numbers are increasing dramatically for the entire state.
They made a new law this year that allows for night time hunting. You guys will probably agree, that hunting and trapping by itself will not control their numbers. The government needs to put some incentive such as a bounty on them now before their numbers get to great. What do you think?
Personally, I still have only seen about 2 or three myself, but I have heard a lot more stories about them in the last couple years.
My neighbor shot one in his back yard in May. That's the first one I've heard about in our neighborhood. My friend told me that he trapped 7 coyotes and 1 bobcat last fall and winter. I'd say that their numbers are increasing dramatically for the entire state.
They made a new law this year that allows for night time hunting. You guys will probably agree, that hunting and trapping by itself will not control their numbers. The government needs to put some incentive such as a bounty on them now before their numbers get to great. What do you think?
The goverment can control there numbers alright, but we don't want that. No bountys, let us the hunters do it and it's free to the public. I've been killing coyotes for years and I don't charge anyone, I just enjoy predator hunting as do many of us. I can tell you for a fact the state of Nevada has put a dent into the coyote population from the air, like I said before they are making the hunters pay for it and that's wrong.
BionicPossum
New member
Thanks for your comments. Do you have any idea how much it is costing the hunters in Nevada to do this? I'm more in favor of putting a bounty on them, and letting trappers and hunters get some of the money for a reward. Do you know if this works, and how much would that cost?
I enjoy hunting as much as the next person. If it moves, I enjoy shooting it. But I'm more of a deer, bird and rabbit hunter and I'm concerned about the coyotes hurting the game population.
It took a lot of years to get a good population of Turkeys in our area, but recently it seems the numbers have began to drop back.
I enjoy hunting as much as the next person. If it moves, I enjoy shooting it. But I'm more of a deer, bird and rabbit hunter and I'm concerned about the coyotes hurting the game population.
It took a lot of years to get a good population of Turkeys in our area, but recently it seems the numbers have began to drop back.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
Nevada adds a $3 fee to every hunting license that is sold and that money is earmarked for predator control. The state does a lot of trapping and aerial gunning. At least here in NE Nevada, it is very effective. About the only time you ever see a coyote anymore is on private land where the state can't hunt without being invited by the landowner. I do quite a lot of traveling both on roads and off road on a trail bike. In the last 3 years I have not seen a single coyote on public land, not one. Since about 90% of the land here is public, that is a lot of land without many coyotes.
Jack
Jack
Rob Meyers
New member
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
BillyTheKidd
New member
Elkeholic, most predator callers in Arizona would love to be able to hunt at night. They have been working at changing the law so I hear, but the DGF don't want to play. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Rich Cronk
New member
No coyotes left around here. Danny B. has em all salted down, staked out and bullseye's painted on em. It be down in New Mexico somewhere. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Steve Craig
New member
Research has shown that the average Western state has about 100,000 coyotes. Calf.,Az.,and Co., has more due to trapping being banned in those states. Approximately 60% of that 100,000 each year are pups, and another 20,000 are sub-adults. That leaves you with 10,000 breeding pairs and each pair kills an average of 4-8 mule deer or antelope fawns each spring to feed those 60,000 pups. Hunters on average kill approximately 5-10% of the coyote population each year. Another 40% are killed by disease, cars,natural mortality, etc. You have to kill 80% of your coyote population to "hurt" their numbers. If you kill 75%, their numbers will remain stable. Lets face it, hunters are not getting the job done. They never have. So, we now know why our deer and antelope numbers are on a giant downward spiral. The coyote is the biggest big game poacher in the west. There is a place for predator control in the west, because here in AZ. predators are out of control.
FWIW
Steve
FWIW
Steve
mikegranger
Well-known member
Steve,
My definition of a poacher is taking something that is not yours or you have no right to have. A coyote is a natural predator created to survive on animals such as deer and antelope. Who are we to assume they have no right to the deer and antelope and we should have all of them for ourselves!
No, a balance of nature is what we really should be striving for, neither of us have a right to it all. Wholesale predator control is not the answer. Wildlife management is more than knocking off one predator so another can kill more. The poor old coyote gets blamed for a lot of things. I would much rather have a functioning ecosystem where both coyote and man has the opportunity to take a fair share of both predator and prey. By either killing all or protecting all of the predators(lions in California) we set ourselves up for certain failure.
My definition of a poacher is taking something that is not yours or you have no right to have. A coyote is a natural predator created to survive on animals such as deer and antelope. Who are we to assume they have no right to the deer and antelope and we should have all of them for ourselves!
No, a balance of nature is what we really should be striving for, neither of us have a right to it all. Wholesale predator control is not the answer. Wildlife management is more than knocking off one predator so another can kill more. The poor old coyote gets blamed for a lot of things. I would much rather have a functioning ecosystem where both coyote and man has the opportunity to take a fair share of both predator and prey. By either killing all or protecting all of the predators(lions in California) we set ourselves up for certain failure.
Steve Craig
New member
No offence Mike, but according to the Good Book, Those deer and antelope AND the coyotes were made for man! Just a difference of opinion between us I guess. I believe that Man is as much a predator as the coyote, but in this day and age has lost most of his "natural" ability and has gotten too far away fom the land to know better.
Coyotes in AZ are getting more than their fair share of the deer and antelope. G&F finally admitted this, this past season, after they ended a 10 year study. They have said for years that the problem was drought and habitat, but the study proved their basic premise was totally wrong and now they dont know what to do as they have also said that predator control was a subject they did not want to tackle due to public opinion on the subject( again the average joe getting too far away from the land and now not being able to understand the need for it.)Right now, your "poor old coyote" IS the problem in this state as far as deer and antelope management goes. I agree with you that a balance must be made, but right now the scales are tipped way too far toward the coyote and lions. Trapping was and is one of the most effective forms of controlling predator numbers, and we have had NONE for 10 years here. Hunters are not killing enough coyotes!!!! With fawn survial rates in the high tens, and low teens, statewide, deer and antelope will never be able to make a come back as long as predator numbers run amuck. At least untill the deer and antelope are gone,(almost there) then we will see a change in the predator numbers due to disease. And that is a true shame. Again the great thing about living in this country is you and I can agree to disagree, and still be friends.
FWIW
Steve
Coyotes in AZ are getting more than their fair share of the deer and antelope. G&F finally admitted this, this past season, after they ended a 10 year study. They have said for years that the problem was drought and habitat, but the study proved their basic premise was totally wrong and now they dont know what to do as they have also said that predator control was a subject they did not want to tackle due to public opinion on the subject( again the average joe getting too far away from the land and now not being able to understand the need for it.)Right now, your "poor old coyote" IS the problem in this state as far as deer and antelope management goes. I agree with you that a balance must be made, but right now the scales are tipped way too far toward the coyote and lions. Trapping was and is one of the most effective forms of controlling predator numbers, and we have had NONE for 10 years here. Hunters are not killing enough coyotes!!!! With fawn survial rates in the high tens, and low teens, statewide, deer and antelope will never be able to make a come back as long as predator numbers run amuck. At least untill the deer and antelope are gone,(almost there) then we will see a change in the predator numbers due to disease. And that is a true shame. Again the great thing about living in this country is you and I can agree to disagree, and still be friends.
FWIW
Steve
howler
New member
I don't really think they were made FOR man but we were put in charge of their well being and a balanced ecosystem is best for all. Here In Montana the Ag Dept tryis their level best to exterminate the coyote. And the FWP issues extra Doe tags because there are to many deer, and Antelope feeding on Ranchers hay stacks. Seems out of wack to me.