Custom Rifle builder sides with PETA

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Lyle,

You are correct sir in that I was not there. I posted that "as I recall" and you eluded to my memory several times in your reply. I was again not there and it is my memory that I'm pulling from as it was something Dan talked about with me one time when I was in his shop.

There is no wagon circling that I'm aware of, if I was a wagon circler I would so more for my other friend Scott who you habitually try to instigate into things. However, Scott being in goodstanding with this board can do that for himself. Dan as Jim pointed out, cant. That is of course for his own actions while a member of this board. I do not argue that, he made his bed he can lie in it. I will do my part however to speak up for him on matters that I think I know something about.

I could be wrong on some things, wouldnt be the first time. As for my credibility, anyone that know's me understands what it is. I may be allot of things in this life but dishonest is not one of them.

However, in this thread I wasnt aware my credibility was on the line. I have not insulted anyone, nor made any sladerous accusations towards anyone, product or thing. I have spoken honestly and politely to everyone including yourself and I will continue to do so.

I hope that in the future we can meet in person and you can judge foryourself the type of person I am.
 
I've seen a target shot by Dan from the 204 in question, after a good cleaning, it shot well. I actually never knew how hard the gas port is on barrels. I used one of his guns, I thought I'd cleaned it very well. That didn't make it clean though. There's an area just past the gas port that fouls horribly in an AR. From what I could see the barrel was clean, a bore scope showed something different. That was in a standard 223, your 204 was similar, but since the 204 is a hotter round, your fouling was worse. I can't say it was anyones problem really. If I had that barrel I'd use it, but also make damned sure it was clean. But I don't have a clue as to what it would take to keep it clean. I did see the target he shot with it after cleaning, not bad at all, a bit of wind drift, but not bad at all. Granted, I didn't hear your conversation, but i have seen the upper your talking about.

Dan is way out of control on this stupid fight though and I've told him many times. Redfrog does not deserve what he's been dishing out. I've noticed that most of his posts are going without comment, or with very little comment. Until this sprung up I was hoping it would all finally blow away. None of us need this sort of thing right now.
 
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From our TOS:

4 If you are a member and your conduct here or elsewhere, brings or attempts to bring our reputation, or the reputation of our members into disrepute, we will simply revoke your membership.




I cannot believe that the "TOS cops" are flashing the badges, I really have not seen anything other than civil discussion.

Thought to self - Looks like they are just sticking up for a buddy.
 
Matt-

I may be stepping over the line here but I find the timing of your intervention here to be a little more than coincidental. Seems to me the TOS you quoted isn't always applied in equal layers.

Some guy takes some pot shots, gets taken to task for it, and all of a sudden the posse rides up. Wierd.

When someone decides to make some claims while maybe omitting some details that could have some impact on said claims, he should prepare to defend his words, not given the easy way out.

Last but not least...all of this could have been avoided by taking the high road instead of plastering "Custom Rifle builder sides with PETA" all over the board from top to bottom. Randy locked it in the firearms section and let it slip away. Seems like a good idea to me instead of pinning it at the top and letting folks get all haired up over it.

Maybe it's just time for the anual membership pruning and folks are being given the opportunity to hang themselves into oblivion.
 

edited by George to add jIMANAZ thank you for your last post!!!!




What say ye, all ye men? Will you give as much blood as shall be needed to temper the steel?

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Maybe it's just time for the anual membership pruning and folks are being given the opportunity to hang themselves into oblivion.



Not quite Jim.

Members who wish to throw their 2 cents into the ring, for and against, are welcome to do so, without any sort or real or perceived reprisals, as long as the TOS are observed.

Nobody has had their post edited, and we'd like to keep it that way.

Say what you feel, but let's not let this turn into a trainwreck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
hey andrew...let me explain
the similarities between this conversation and that of pres obama at notre dame ???
he asks catholics... on the question of abortion... to meet the government somewhere in the middle
personally i feel (submit) there is not possibly a middle ground on this issue
the fetus either is killed or not
is there a partially dead ???
is there a defense for the unborn child (they no longer exist)
who is at fault ???
the government which condones the abortion
the mother who knowingly had sex and gets pregnant ???
neither !!!
it is morality which is at the core..it is individual decision... and there is NO MIDDLEGROUND
it is or it isn't moral
and by the way...
what was the quality or capability of the doctor ???
how does this get to the doctor ????????????????
what if you informed a woman of a doctor and the law which performs and or allows the abortion
would you be pointed at by pro-life folks
as being pro-choice ???
possibly
what if you strongly and on multiple occasions defended her decision to have the abortion
would you be considered pro-choice ????
most definitely !!!

so
which side would you stand with regarding the letter to peta
IT IS A MORAL ISSUE
there is no middle ground
either you believe as peta does that the killing of any animal at any time and for any reason is immoral
or you believe that...
as the majority of those in this forum believe
i agree that the issue of gun quality or lack there of is as pertinent as the doctor and the quality of his work
but
the issue is that because of a riff with redfrog... your friend would inform peta of this group's hunt... that is certainly reason for consternation among the members here
and your friend should be discussed and should be judged by our moderators and members
(if in fact he was responsible for the letter)
by taking the side of/apparently standing up for your friend (regarding peta letter)then you throw yourself into the arena
you are trying to place yourself on "middle ground" regarding a moral issue
again...there is no middle ground
you cannot be anti-hunter and hunter
and this is a hunting forum
what would you expect ???
then you (if i read correctly) qualified him and his gunsmith capabilities as a reason for defending your friendship and his letter
again...what would you expect ???

respectfully
see ya in las cruces
it should be a spirited discussion
guero
ps
removing the "que??" comment is like telling the jury to disregard the previous statement
you said it...stand by it
 
Guero,

I removed the Que? (Spanish for what?) because I changed my mind about responding to you. I really don't get where your coming from and all I could think of was "what?"

Now after reading your comparison to this situation and abortion I have decided again to reestablish my position of:

"Que?"

I don't believe the internet is going to help us on this one. I will happily chat it up with you in LC at the 2010 PM hunt as I bet we can understand each other clearly in about 5 minutes of talking face to face. Something that a 1000 words on a forum may never do for us.

The internet if funny that way, many things taken out of context and blown out of proportion.

To end, I look forward to meeting you there and hope that I can talk you into taking me out on stand, it's your part of the world I would love the opportunity to see how you hunt it.
 
Quote:
Members who wish to throw their 2 cents into the ring, for and against, are welcome to do so, without any sort or real or perceived reprisals, as long as the TOS are observed.

Nobody has had their post edited, and we'd like to keep it that way.

Say what you feel, but let's not let this turn into a trainwreck.




Jeff,
Its already a train wreck.

The only TOS violation I can see is this thread being posted to start with. Just take a look at what its done. Infighting, people's reputations being dragged thru the dirt etc. Not to mention the damage it has done to this site, the reputation of its members, mods and more so the admin. Its not good for anyone and makes everyone look like fools, on both sides of the issue. This fire might have been started somewhere else, but the gas was thrown on it here without much thought of the consequences.
 
guero...let ME explain
i don't see anybody
defending dan for the PETA letter (joke)???
in as poor of taste as it was
all are in agreement that what he wrote and put out there for the world to see was ill advised at best
but some must be held to a higher
standard????
letting a fire burn down is almost always a better option than throwing gasoline on it
some (and i suspect you are one of them)?
would like to see this hatfield and mccoy act
blow away
and therefore someone
needs to conduct them self (ves)
in the same manner that
they hold others to

the actual forwarding of the letter
never occurred until it was posted here
and an innocent bystander was caught up as
collateral damage
who?
owns the responsibility for that
the one who penned the letter (where it was only seen by a few who understood what it was)or the one who
moved it here (where it was seen by many who didn't)???????
NO ONE has condoned
the letter or the idea behind it
we all agree on that
some of us felt the need to
speak for someone who is not allowed
to speak here
and make it known the best we can
that dan carey would never side
with PETA any more than
you or i would!
he is however
guilty of poor judgement and i
would like to pass sentence on him myself

and you are right.....
a spirited conversation it will
be

Man that was hard to type. I'm not doing that anymore.
 
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Quote:
Members who wish to throw their 2 cents into the ring, for and against, are welcome to do so, without any sort or real or perceived reprisals, as long as the TOS are observed.

Nobody has had their post edited, and we'd like to keep it that way.

Say what you feel, but let's not let this turn into a trainwreck.




Jeff,
Its already a train wreck.

The only TOS violation I can see is this thread being posted to start with. Just take a look at what its done. Infighting, people's reputations being dragged thru the dirt etc. Not to mention the damage it has done to this site, the reputation of its members, mods and more so the admin. Its not good for anyone and makes everyone look like fools, on both sides of the issue. This fire might have been started somewhere else, but the gas was thrown on it here without much thought of the consequences.



Furhunter,

Whether you believe it to be the case or not, it is the DUTY and, more to the point, THE RESPONSIBILTY of the ENTIRE Predator Masters Staff, to make the membership here at Predator Masters, and those of the entire hunting commuity, aware of ANY potential threats to our sport.

Regardless of what you may or may not think, there has been no damage done to this site, it's members, nor it's Administrative staff. FACT's and DIRECT QUOTES, made "elsewhere", have been posted for our members to be made aware and informed of.

If these facts disturb you, then we have most certainly done our jobs!

If you disagree with the post made by the Administration, that is certainly your right to feel so; however, do not come here and vainly attempt to paint Predator Masters as having done anything short of what is expected of us by our entire membership, fellow predator hunters, and the hunting community as a whole.

Hear this and hear it well:

This is not about "bringing the fire to Predator Masters, nor making a bigger one", this is about an animal rights group being advised of our upcoming annual hunt, in hopes of sabotaging the event, at OUR MEMBERS EXPENSE, to the delight and enjoyment of those who would see it occur!!!

Predator Masters, will not sit idley by and let this occur!


If you have ANY issue with what is occuring, or what the Predator Masters Administration has decided to make our membership aware of, I would seriously recommend you send one of the Moderators or the Administration a PM and it can be discussed further. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Jeff Mock
 
Don't you think its time toooooooooooooooooooooo

0028-0401-1304-5541_TN.jpg


IT DOWN.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif No good is going to come out of this anymore. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Stump49, I agree with your post as well as R Buker, jiminaz, and Furhunter. The membership of this site is neither better informed, or served by this thread.
 
I've just gotta say this.

First off this was brought in here for one purpose and that was to rub DC's nose in his own excrement. Predator Masters is punishing DC in the best way they know how. Honestly I can't say as he doesn't deserve it. He's been WAY over the top on Redfrog for quite a while now and the chickens need to come home to roost at least occasionally. With that being said, I don't believe it really does any good for PMasters. More than likely DC is loving this (I've had NO contact with him for over a month) and its going to drive more traffic over to PMonsters. Sure some will rally due to this, but most won't and some will even think less of PMasters for doing this.

If we think that animal rights people don't or haven't known about our annual hunts then we are absolutely fooling ourselves. Whether DC reported us or not PETA and others know about Predator Masters. Predator Masters has never hidden the fact that we have these hunts and we've never kept the location secret from anybody. PETA, the Humane Society and ALL other animal rights groups have always known about us if for no other reason due to the prominent position we hold in a google search.

I’m frequently amazed at how willing we are to whip ourselves into a frenzy over almost nothing. As an example: Last fall there was an article written in the local papers about our annual hunt in Globe Arizona. Instantly there was talk of sabotage and accusations of somebody ratting us out to the animal rights people. First off we’ve very publicly held the hunt in Globe for, what was it 7 or 8 years. One way or another a newspaper writer got wind of it and did an article. With news paper people being what they are, with an eye toward attempting to have a balanced report he/she talked to all sides one the subject including: Predator Masters, State Game and Fish, the Reservation and yes animal rights groups. I believe, rather than somebody “ratting us out”, it is very likely the animal rights people started paying attention due to the newspaper reporter talking to them. Naturally the article, while I thought it wasn’t actually bad, brought us to the attention of other groups as well. We need to fact facts, we aren’t a small group, in some places we are rather well known. With that notoriety comes both positives and negatives. It really can’t be helped.
 
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why is this thread pined ?
was the thread about the anti's going to Globe last year pined
was the thread about Jim Zumbo pinned?
I am disappointed that Predator masters is playing these kid games.

maybe the thread title should read ''WE GOT HIM NOW'

pinning this thread is just non productive. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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