Decoy Dogs! The truth...

R Buker

R Buker

New member
I'd love to start a thread here where people write in their experiences with decoy dogs. I hear such a wide variety of things about if it works or doesn't and what breeds are good and what ones are not and on, and on, and on, and....

Maybe if we can gather enough opinions, we can draw some good conclusions.

I'll add my two cents after a bit.

Randy
 
My only real experience with decoy dogs was last july when I spent a few days with Wiley E in south dakota. He uses Mountain Cur's and I can tell you that during that time of year the decoy dogs are like a magnet to coyotes. Good decoy dogs are a MUST for serious predator control during spring and summer. Resident coyotes just can't stand having a dog any where near their den area.
 
Today I received my, "Doggin' for Coyotes" videos in the mail. I have no idea if I'll like 'em or even what I'll find, but I am way looking forward to watching them!!!!
 
Randy.....You dawg you! trying to draw the unsuspecting into this quagmire
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Ive done made up my mind on the subject of dogs on a "winter-time" stand, but I'll be damned if Im gonna shoot my mouth off. I will watch with anticipation at the responses though....will be interesting to see what those who have actually used dogs, and not just watched it on video will have to add to this thread....

By the way Randy, so good to see you moderating this board, I think we are in for a treat having your wit and experience with us here.
Vic
 
Vic,

When did you get to be such a coward??? Or should the question be; when did you get so wise? HA HA.

Yeah, I've got some pretty significant views too. Don't want to add my two cents till after the troops here give their reports. I've read some bits and pieces over the years here and they seem to verify what I've experienced but it will be interesting to hear.

I think there are more variables here than meets the eye.

We shall see. Nice to see you here.

send me an email at foxhunter_56308@hotmail.com so I can write you and bring you up to speed. I don't seem to have your email anymore.

Randy
 
We have a chi wa wa with a thimble for a bladder. I'm thinking serious about making it a coyote meal.....er decoy.
 
“Comparatively speaking” I have very little calling experience with decoy dogs however last fall I tried my Jack Russell’s out on my first 40 or 50 “day time” coyotes with mixed results. The biggest advantage I can see is that they do keep the coyotes attention away from the caller. The first few coyotes usually did one of two things, they would stop and sit down as soon as they seen the dog or they would see an easy meal and charge all out. I literally shot a coyote that rolled over the top of my dog with that intent.

The sitters would watch for a while and then take off. This only lasted for a little while until my dogs figured out what to look for. After that they would of course, chase every coyote that came in. I would try not to ever let the dogs get out of site because of their size so I would bring them back with the aid of an Innotek training caller at around 300 yards or so. Very rarely would a coyote fallow the dog back. I can only think of only 2 occasions that it worked the way it was suppose to.

On one occasion I had a group of 4 coyotes come in across a huge flat so I hid “Gizmo, my male,” under my arm until they were about 150yds out. When I turned him loose he headed for the coyotes at full speed and when they seen him they just scattered and headed back to where they came from. At about 300 yards I zapped Gizmo and he came running back as hard as he could and only the big mail stopped for a last look. Gizmo sat down beside me and watched the coyote, which had stopped at about 400 yards on a small rise. We sat there for about 2 minutes until the male got board and started to move away. At this point I sent out the dog again and the coyote just picked up the pace so I barked, stopped the coyote and shot it. Gizmo then unmercifully mauled the coyote until I got there. This kind of behavior was very conman in the coyotes that I dealt with no doubt because of the time of year. Also in my country stalking is an important technique in harvesting coyotes and you cant make very many successful stalks with a dog by your side. So all in all I don’t believe that in my situation a dog is not of much value during the fur season.

I am not alone in my thinking either. A friend of mine, “John Graham,” a long time professional hunter and trapper from Garfield county Montana told me “It’s a 50/50 proposition, If you hunt coyotes just for fur like you do, you would be better served with out one. On the other hand for control work in the spring and summer I wouldn’t take to the field with out one.” Craig O’Gorman told me the same thing, as did Vern Howey. Craig later told me that he never goes calling with out one but admitted that he concentrates more on trapping at that time of year and rarely bothers with calling. It is no secret that a good dog will help you make bigger kills in the spring and summer but it has yet to be proven to me that they will be of much value during the fur season, Nov. through mid February.

Randy; VC makes it sound like you are an expert in the field so why don’t you save us the suspense and show us the error of our ways.

I hope my experiences have shed a little light on the subject but keep in mind they are very limited and Jack Russells are not the Ideal decoy dogs. If they were 20lbs heaver then I might make the case but as it stands NO.

Good hunting.

Q-Wagoner
 
Q-Wagoner,

I am far from an expert in this field. I'm just some sucker that volunteered to moderate a place here we can argue about decoy dogs and hounds.

I've had a fair mix of experience though. Some good and some bad.

I'm going to reserve my opinion for a tad bit longer in hopes we can get a few more opinions out there.

Randy

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http://www.geocities.com/foxhunter_56308
Hunting the Red Fox
 
Randy,
The subject of Decoy Dogs is probably my favorite. I've been useing them for 22 years now in ADC work. I only use them in the spring and summer.

My thoughts on fall/winter use of a dog (and I have tried it with a small dog) is you are better off leaving the dog in the truck where he is available should you need him to find any poorly hit coyotes for you.

You have to call the coyotes close enough for them to see the dog, why not just call them on in and shoot? It is true that a dog will get their attention and they are less apt to see you, but a feather on a short piece of fishing line works fairly good too. I've found that a dog in the fall/winter cost me some young coyotes.

I also realize that others use a dog in the fall/winter with success. A good friend of mine and fellow ADC hunter uses a Jadgterrier in the fall.

I've read your accounts of calling with the weiner dogs and I think you are correct in assuming the coyotes see it as "lunch" and not a threat to them. You just might have something there. I've never tried a dog that didn't really look like a dog.
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That's my 2 cents worth for now. This is an excellent thread. I'm anxious to hear what others have to say. I also have 2 cents worth on breeds, terrain, and location, but don't want spend all my money right now.
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Hitman
 
Hi Guys Do The Decoy Dogs Work In Wooded MT
Country Like Here In NH Or They A Open Country Dog. Does any One Have Any Tapes
On The Dogs So I Can See Them Work It Lucks
Like Alot Of Fun I Use Hounds HereIn NH.
Good Luck Hunting.

Thanks Steve&The Thorn
Mt Hounds.
 
Steve E.L.K.inc has 2 videos on decoy dogs,dogging coyotes and dogging coyotes 2.I've got the first one good video.Got to hunt with Merv Griswold,the main guy in dogging coyotes, late last fall had alot of fun but he never brought his dogs, another freind brought his border collie. www.elkinc.com
 
Wow! This thread is fadeing fast. I was hopeing to hear about the experience of others using Decoy Dogs. I have very little experience with them in the fall/winter.

Randy and VC, is it time to share your views on the subject?

Steven, my dogs work in wooded mountains in June through August.

Rob, I no longer have the original two Jadgs, but I still have a pup from them. This will be his first spring to work coyotes. We'll see????

Hitman
 
OK, I said I'd weigh in with my opinions and it's time. Seems we've flushed out just about anyone who was interested here in doing so already.

First off, we know from a variety of sources that during denning season decoy dogs are dynamite on coyotes. All the proof we need is in the video doggin' coyotes. Man, that stuff is sure cool when those coyotes come chasing those dogs in. Bold little suckers.

But most of us are not ADC men. Most of us are recreational hunters hunting during the winter time when the fur is worth keeping. That's where my experience is.

I've hunted with guys who have decoy dogs of various sizes. I've seen what and how the coyotes react.

My very first stand with a decoy dog was classic of what I have experienced so will out line it here.

I was hunting with a guy who had an airedale. We set up and my brother in law had a mouth call and was playing so nice and sweet in the early morning cool of the desert. The dog was merrily running about looking for something to chase. In the distance I spot a coyote coming in to the call.

He came hard and at about 150 yards and coming the dog spotted him and took a bee line out to the coyote. The coyote saw the dog and checked up. Behind some brush offering no shot. The dog closed the distance and when she was about 50 yards from the coyote, the coyote turned tail and raced for the hills. Both went out of sight.

Now, I had seen doggin' coyotes and fully expected that dog to turn tail, come racing back to us with a pack of about fifty coyotes on her butt. But, ten minutes later, here she came. ALL ALONE. Smiling like she was the greatest dog in the world. She had effectively chased all the coyotes back into the hills so we were safe from those nasty varmints.

My brother in law looked at me, I looked at him and we both looked at the guy who's dog it was and promptly bit our lip so as not to offend our host.

During that trip, we continued to drag that dog along on stand and she continued to keep us safe from coyotes. The very first coyote we killed on that trip was one that came in while our host was holding his dog. He went so far as to cover the dog's eyes when the coyote approaced so she wouldn't see it. It came to within thirty yards and I killed it. We ended up killing coyotes on that trip but there wasn't a single one that came in while that dog was out being a "decoy dog."

I've had a couple of other hunts using decoy dogs that ranged from labradors to Jack russel terriors. All the results were the same. The dogs chased away the coyotes.

So, with the idea of decoy dogs no longer in my brain, I came up with a brain storm. I'd use one of my own dogs as a decoy!

I decided to rule out my labs and chesapeakes because I already saw what a big dog will do on the stand. Instead, I went with one of my mini long haired wiener dogs.

The first stand where this paid off was one day in North Dakota. A buddy and I were hunkered down on a fence line. I called and from a distance came two coyotes. They were pretty typical. Both came fairly hard but then started swinging downwind when they got to within 250 yards. Suddenly, they stopped becasue they had seen that wiener dog moving around in front of me. I was watching the lead dog through my scope. You should have seen the look on his face. It said, "Ma, there's supper." They stopped swinging downwind and came in as hard as hard can be. We opened up on them when they got closer. It was a ball.

We've used these wiener dogs on many other stands and have NEVER had one scare off a coyote. Sometimes the coyote doesn't see him but when they do, they come in hard!

I see two differences here. First, the wiener dog is not big enough to terrorize the coyotes. Secondly, because of their shape and all the hair, from a distance I'm convinced that the coyote doesn't have a clue that this is a dog. Instead, I'm convinced that they see it as whatever was making that screaming sound and come in to kill and eat the funny looking little critter.

If you want to see a picture of one of these dogs and the results it brings, go over to my web page, page through them till you come to the decoy page and take a look at that pic of me with the wiener dog and a pair of coyotes that just couldn't help them selves.

I've gotten too long winded here already but if there is any interest in this method of keeping the dogs safe, I can go into that in another post. Because trust me, it wouldn't take long for a pair of coyotes to make lunch out of my wiener dogs!

Randy
 
Randy,
Thanks for sharing that. I've had very similar results trying to use my Mountain Curs in the fall/winter.

I looked at the pic of your dog and I have a few of questions.

What is the weight and hight of your dog?

How does your dog react when she sees a coyote coming in?

Have you ever used her in grass or sage that was taller than she is (expecting the coyotes to wind her and come in)?

Thanks,
Hitman
 
Hitman243;

I am thinking on getting a jagd for coon and blood trailing work. How did yours work out? Also how big were your dogs and how did you employ them?

Thanks,

Q-Wagoner
 
The dog in that picture is actually a sister to my dog. She's owned by a friend of mine.

Anyway, she stands about six inches tall at the shoulder. She weighs in at about nine pounds. Her brother is the one I usually use and he's an inch and a half taller and weighs fifteen pounds. She's a skinny little waif. She could be a super model.

Both of these dogs stay close while we call. Those short legs won't take them out of harm's way at all so we dont' let them range far. Thirty or forty yards is it. Both are trained very well and will come back when given any kind of sign to return. usually it's just some kind of hiss or short whistle.

We do our coyote hunting in North dakota. It's open. And, it's almost always snow-covered. We never set up where there is limited visibility if we are going to use the dog. If there is longer grass, ravines or cuts that would allow a coyote to get too close before we see it, we won't use the dog. So, our setups are very visual in nature when using the dog.

We take every action possible to safeguard the dogs. I never use him when I hunt alone. Only with a partner and that partner is hiked down wind fifty or more yards. We use radios and are always in contact with each other. One can always see the dog. We keep it in radio contact about it. "hey, is Abbie over there?" "Yup, I've got her." then it's his responsibility to watch her till she starts my way again.

The black dog in the picture doesn't really react much to coyotes. She's not a killer. So, when she sees a coyote come in, she generally sits up and watches them. She won't go out to the coyotes even after we kill them.

My brown dog, Buddy, on the other hand, has it figured out that when I call, he runs around and every once in a while sits up and scans the area for coyotes. When he sees them, he often tries to go to them. He doesn't bark though. Just tries to head toward them.

The good thing is that with his short legs, he doesn't usually see them first. They usually see him first. They come in, I aim my rifle, Buddy sees that and looks that direction, I go Boom and he runs out to claim the kill.

It's a hoot.

Did I answer your questions? Any more?

Randy
 
Randy,
Yes, you answered all my questions. Sounds like you have a good system. Those dogs are even smaller than I thought. I would be hard pressed to find a place to call with good enough visibility to protect the dogs.

Q-Wagoner,
I wasn't pleased with my Jadg's for coyote decoy dogs for various reasons, so I no longer have the original two I bought. I think it takes a special person to get along with Jadg's and I'm just not that person. A good friend of mine has good success using his Jadg's as decoy dogs. Maybe if I had more patience?????

I think Jadg's would do a good job on coon and blood trailing.

The male I had weighed 23 lbs. and stood 14 in. at the shoulders, the female 19 lbs. and 13 in.

I have a pup out of those two that probably weighs 20 lb. and about 14 in. tall. He is one year old and we already don't see eye to eye on several things. He better impress me soon.

Hitman
 
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