Decoy Dogs???

Most enjoyable reading on this subject I've seen has been right here on PM. Do a search on mikegranger as the screen name, or Bubba in the topic. I don't know, you might be able to use both and narrow the search.
 
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This is Bubba. Do a search using his name and you should find plenty of reading about the topic.
 
That Bubba is a good looking dog. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif I bought a Blackmouth Cur pup, he's only 2.5 months old right now, I'll try to post some pictures of him later. I hope he can learn the trade, so to speak. That being said, I did the search on Bubba as suggested, and really enjoyed the reading, but I haven't found much on "training techniques" other than use a shock collar with a tone. Can anyone give me some tips on how to actually train the dog, even tips on how to train him to come back when I give him the tone... Another question I have is at what age should I start taking him along? And at what age should I actually turn him loose on a set? Heeeelp.
 
My brother and I have taken his wifes toy poodle out a few times and tied him to a tree, never seen anything using him, and it made her mad so we quit.
 
Thanks for the compliments. Training them to come to the tone isn't difficult at all. Everytime you call him to come, hit the tone. He'll eventually figure it out, especially when you give him a "correction" now and again when he forgets. Bubba is a very stubborn dog, as most hounds are, so I haven't been able to train him to come and sit beside me when a coyote appears. What I do is wait for him to clear the coyote, make sure he's standing there looking at it, then shoot the coyote. Adds a little more complication to the process but coyotes will hold a long time with a dog in front of them.

I asked the guy I bought Bubba from the same question. His response was "take him hunting, he'll catch on pretty quick". By the end of the first season he was a pro. I started hunting him at 10 months. Once they figure out your calling coyotes and you keep him in range with the collar, everything will come together. So, my advice is to train him to come to you EVERYTIME you tone him, go hunting lots, and whenever you get a coyote, let him play, bite and worry it. He'll catch on quick.

Almost forgot, coyotes bite back. He'll either learn to hate them or become scared. If the latter, get another dog.

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The big male in my right hand had Bubba down three times before I was able to get a clear shot. Bubba was 11 months old. I was worried he was ruined. Not so, this is Bubba the following day!

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Cal Taylor has a real informative article in this last issue of Predator Xtreme. He is a great trainer and coyote hunter. Also, Jerry Hunsley of Wiley One Predator Calls has a great decoy dog named Wiley, and I am sure he would give you some good advice. Also there are some good videos out on the subject including Cal Taylor's "Coyote Hunting Going to the Dogs" and "Dogging Coyotes" from ELK, Inc.
 
SGS, you need to decide if ya want a kill dog or a decoy dog. A young dog on wounded coyotes is just the owner not caring about the well being of his dog.

Read Cal's articles on decoy dogs and follow the advice of guys who have a little more experience in this area. It is not the success or failure of a dog if he does or doesn't fight or kill a wounded coyote. There is one helluva allot more to it then that! It's decoying coyotes!!!!

Here are a couple pics of DECOY DOGS in action.

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Randy,

I don't know anyone who call coyotes with a "kill dog". Care to enlighten us on the subject? I do know lots of folks who run coyotes and have a "kill" dog amongst the pack.

Hopefully you are not insinuating I don't know much about "tolling" coyotes nor care for my dog.

I do agree about seeking advice from as many people on a subject as you can. But, ultimately you have to go out there and let the dog work.
 
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Hopefully you are not insinuating I don't know much about "tolling" coyotes nor care for my dog.



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif glad Bubba can't read.
Maybe that's not what he meant?
 
Mike if you choose to run an 11 month old cur on a wounded coyote it's your dog, it is not advice I would give to someone starting out with a dog.

As for the kill dog, a super agressive decoy dog, not the kill dog associated with a pack of greyhounders. A super agressive decoy dog to a recreational caller using it primarily during fur season is more of a problem then a timid dog that sits by your side.

I don't know if you have any experience other than what you posted, and from what I gathered in that post you are someone who lets a young dog get into something like you said that may ruin him or worse. A scenario myself or anyone I know of in this profession doesn't want to happen. Many decoy dogs never show their true potential until 2-3 years of age.

If ya like watchin your dog fight with coyotes and finish of wounded ones so be it. The coyotes will win and your dog will loose. Teaching them to engage the coyotes and retreat and then do it again on command and to only fight to get back to ya are some of the most important things a dog can learn. Maybe you do that?

It sounds to me like Bubba was one lucky dog. You are entitled to train your decoy dog however. I do not want a novice to enter this deal and end up with a dog that gets ruined or bit up. Yes to me letting a young dog in on a wounded coyote says to me that his well being wasn't number one on your list. Just my opinion.

When I give advice on this subject, to the person asking the questions, he or she will know the danger and risks involved. Like try not to let your young dog near a wounded coyote! If you take it personal so be it, if it makes SGS a little more careful with his pup, so be it. I've got two recreational callers here in town that have taken young curs out and like you said ruined them. They call and want to know what to do after the fact. Pretty tough to build a dog back up. We have another who has a super agressive cur that fights with coyotes a mile or more from it's owner, it will run right thru a shock collar, he spends allot of time waiting and looking for his dog. I know of another that has to have a radio collar on his dog to be located sometimes, he will kill coyotes though and he has had two near death trips to the vet since I have known him from coyotes getting the best of him. If you care for more examples i will be happy to post them.

Teaching a decoy dog to kill or even fight with crippled coyotes is not in my training methods. If ya want horror stories from fellow ADC guys I'll get em for ya, and you can ask em if they want a super agressive dog! If you encourage agression well you get to a point of hurting more than helping. There is a very fine line there!

Mike what is your background with decoy dogs, what is your profession? Maybe you have figured out something I have not. I can understand a freak deal with a dog getting into a crippled coyote but it looks to me from your posts it was something more than that. Like I said to each his own. Just trying to head off a trainwreck.

A perfect decoy dog, in my opinon, is one that is just agressive enough to always want to go chase and mess with coyotes but timid enough not to think he can kill them by himself. He feels secure with my help and we work as a team.
 
I've seen my share of how tough a [fresh] caught coyote is. One that hasn't fought off a pack of hounds after running for miles. A fresh coyote is blur in a fight, especially fighting to the death.

They can/will be all over most breeds of dogs in a fight. Regardless of how tough/quick that dog is. Sighthounds are fast fighters. But they can't hold a candle to a coyote as for fight flury/speed. Personally, If I hunted coyote with just one dog. I would keep him/her very close by.

IMO, if a pr of coyote's [were determined] to kill a single dog. That dog would be in trouble, rather quickly.

Many yrs ago. Our friend Larry had a large male greyhound, named Jack. Jack was an experienced coyote killer, lots of Brass. One day Larry, dumped his dog [alone] on [1] coyote. It was a 47lb female coyote. Jack & that coyote fought for awhile all out. Finally Jack had, had enough & broke off the fight, heading back towards the truck.

That female coyote wasn't done, with the fight. She ran this big dog down & tackled him a couple of times. As Jack didn't want anymore. She whipped on him like a buzz-zaw.

That coyote ran another mile, fought & beat one more tough sighthound. I finally shot her.
 
Randy,

Bubba and I have killed over 150 coyotes together these past 3 years. All during fur season. We don't go out during the denning season. When we first started the "Pros" ie ADC guys, told me forget about using a dog during the winter, he'd cost me more coyotes than I would get. I didn't listen to them.

Bubba has been attacked one time during those three years. It just so happened to be when he was ten months old. Also, we already had two coyotes on the ground and Bubba was worring a dead one, when the big male came out of nowhere and was on Bubba before I could do anything. All less than 50 yards from me. Honestly, if someone does not want their dog attacked by a coyote they shouldn't take them hunting. There will be times when a coyote is there before you can respond. That's when your dog better know how to take care of themself. Bubba isn't super aggressive and stays close to me. I don't let him roam far and whenever we get into coyotes I never let him go right up to one. Tolling is the art of luring the coyote to you without the dog attacking or running the coyote off.


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A perfect decoy dog, in my opinon, is one that is just agressive enough to always want to go chase and mess with coyotes but timid enough not to think he can kill them by himself. He feels secure with my help and we work as a team.



I agree 100% and you just described Bubba! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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