bearmanric
New member
You treat us Hand call makers like [beeep].Rick
Diaphragm or Open Reed?
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Redfrog
Moderator
cawilson82, it looks like those questions are directed at me, so I'll try to shed some light.
Of course I have had a reed stick.I get maybe one or two a season. It is usually a bit of debris under the reed that is the problem.
Ever have a diaphragn call screw up? Ever lose one?
Ever have an e-caller quit?
Ever have chapped lips so you can't lipsqueak?
I have had closed reed calls freeze here in the winter. Over the years I have found one, that for whatever reason, does not freeze. It's a laminated call I got from one of our custom call makers.
To be clear, I'm talking about a call or reed actually freezing not sticking. So when someone starts posting that a diaphragm can't possibly freeze in your mouth, that is just silly and insulting.No one would think it would freeze like that, but it sure will freeze here in the winter before you can get it from your mouth to your case.With more than one diaphragm in the case, they will freeze together. It is something else to mess with in the cold.
I hardly ever go calling with 6 cowhorns on a string.
Again just a ridiculous statement to try to discredit me instead of discussing the question asked here.
I use a lanyard for my calls and most have 4 calls on them. I may have one with 5 or 6 calls. I have no problem at all keeping them quiet. Each call is different.
How many diaphragms do you take with you?
The calling game is growing fast. Way more guys now than even a couple years ago.
It's good and bad. It has helped make Predator Masters the largest predator hunting site on planet Earth.PM provides a place to learn and discuss the sport. That's the good.
The bad is that it also draws some rude people out who are not here to help, but simply here to run their mouths. They don't last long. It also means that some want to sneak in under the radar and sell their products. They want the benefits of access to PM without supporting us.
The other thing that happens is a lot more pressure in the field. A lot of guys using the same techniques and the same sounds on what is assuredly a very smart animal.
There;s no shortage of posts on this board from members asking what sounds to use because the coyotes are call shy.
Open reed calls allow the caller to use many different sounds from the same call. They are tough and durable.I have an antler call made by BradH that I got about 10years ago. I use it so much there's a groove in the underside of the mouth piece from my teeth. It is small enough that I can close my hand around it completely and yet I have called in every thing from elk, to wolves,to deer, coyotes, etc.etc, including several African predators. I've even called in a wolverine and a weasel with it.
If you want to be successful you need to be versatile and have more than one call. No one sound works all the time.
I do have several horn howlers that I use after mid Dec. when the coyotes are breeding. I go almost totally to coyote vocals. I keep them in the pockets of my backpack seat and lay them out when I get on stand. I may use 5 or 6 before I'm done the stand.
Again I use custom howlers from the builders on this site. I use a Cronk. or a Carver or a TT, Yellerdog, or one of my RR Calls from Ric.
I have heard some guys on diaphragms do awesome coyote vocals, no doubt.
Now while this thread started out as a legit question, it soon morphed into an marching band for a banned sponsor, among other things.
I have no problem with a call discussion and different opinions, but if you can't make your point with some respect, then you don't have a point and are posting for reasons other than the discussion. I'm not talking about some good natured ribbing. You know who you are and what I'm talking about.
I like vanilla, someone else likes raspberry. I like open reed calls, others don't.
Of course I have had a reed stick.I get maybe one or two a season. It is usually a bit of debris under the reed that is the problem.
Ever have a diaphragn call screw up? Ever lose one?
Ever have an e-caller quit?
Ever have chapped lips so you can't lipsqueak?
I have had closed reed calls freeze here in the winter. Over the years I have found one, that for whatever reason, does not freeze. It's a laminated call I got from one of our custom call makers.
To be clear, I'm talking about a call or reed actually freezing not sticking. So when someone starts posting that a diaphragm can't possibly freeze in your mouth, that is just silly and insulting.No one would think it would freeze like that, but it sure will freeze here in the winter before you can get it from your mouth to your case.With more than one diaphragm in the case, they will freeze together. It is something else to mess with in the cold.
I hardly ever go calling with 6 cowhorns on a string.
I use a lanyard for my calls and most have 4 calls on them. I may have one with 5 or 6 calls. I have no problem at all keeping them quiet. Each call is different.
How many diaphragms do you take with you?
The calling game is growing fast. Way more guys now than even a couple years ago.
It's good and bad. It has helped make Predator Masters the largest predator hunting site on planet Earth.PM provides a place to learn and discuss the sport. That's the good.
The bad is that it also draws some rude people out who are not here to help, but simply here to run their mouths. They don't last long. It also means that some want to sneak in under the radar and sell their products. They want the benefits of access to PM without supporting us.
The other thing that happens is a lot more pressure in the field. A lot of guys using the same techniques and the same sounds on what is assuredly a very smart animal.
There;s no shortage of posts on this board from members asking what sounds to use because the coyotes are call shy.
Open reed calls allow the caller to use many different sounds from the same call. They are tough and durable.I have an antler call made by BradH that I got about 10years ago. I use it so much there's a groove in the underside of the mouth piece from my teeth. It is small enough that I can close my hand around it completely and yet I have called in every thing from elk, to wolves,to deer, coyotes, etc.etc, including several African predators. I've even called in a wolverine and a weasel with it.
If you want to be successful you need to be versatile and have more than one call. No one sound works all the time.
I do have several horn howlers that I use after mid Dec. when the coyotes are breeding. I go almost totally to coyote vocals. I keep them in the pockets of my backpack seat and lay them out when I get on stand. I may use 5 or 6 before I'm done the stand.
Again I use custom howlers from the builders on this site. I use a Cronk. or a Carver or a TT, Yellerdog, or one of my RR Calls from Ric.
I have heard some guys on diaphragms do awesome coyote vocals, no doubt.
Now while this thread started out as a legit question, it soon morphed into an marching band for a banned sponsor, among other things.
I have no problem with a call discussion and different opinions, but if you can't make your point with some respect, then you don't have a point and are posting for reasons other than the discussion. I'm not talking about some good natured ribbing. You know who you are and what I'm talking about.
I like vanilla, someone else likes raspberry. I like open reed calls, others don't.
canislatrans54
New member
Originally Posted By: ARDaveWhat about you canislantrans54? You in?
If you are referring to performing on stage...sorry, no can do.
While I have 100% confidence in both my calls & my calling, I live on a VERY limited income (S.S. Disability), and do not have the funds to travel.
Hence, one of the reasons that I have never attended the PM convention.
I did attend the World Predator Expo, when it was held in K.C. in '08.
But I didn't enter the contest.
If you are referring to performing on stage...sorry, no can do.
While I have 100% confidence in both my calls & my calling, I live on a VERY limited income (S.S. Disability), and do not have the funds to travel.
Hence, one of the reasons that I have never attended the PM convention.
I did attend the World Predator Expo, when it was held in K.C. in '08.
But I didn't enter the contest.
Is the contest to see who the best "caller" is or to see what the best "call" is?
Maybe to make it a real contest, give all the callers the same call, and see who sounds the best.
That would be a better gauge of who the best caller is.
Maybe to make it a real contest, give all the callers the same call, and see who sounds the best.
That would be a better gauge of who the best caller is.
rockinbbar
New member
Originally Posted By: tkingOriginally Posted By: cawilson82
On another note and this is meant with zero disrespect to anyone as I seen the natural voice calling video and thought it was pretty good. But how can one not place in distress or vocals and win the all around? Or as so eloquently put hand everyone their azzes?
I think that's what everyone was else was thinking too, cawilson82!!! Hard to say EVERYONE got their azzes handed to them, when the guys Barry is disrespectfully and unprofessionally talking sh*t about on an open forum(while being the contest director with the contest coming up in a few weeks) won all almost every trophy there. Hard to believe a contest coordinator would sit there and bad-mouth a couple guys that aren't even on this site to defend themselves, very unprofessional IMO!! Especially showing such bias, only weeks before the contest. Yeah, that seems real fair! LOL
Heck, if you want to take the contest back to 50 years ago, why don't you just change the name of it to the World Predator Calling Historical Reenactment??? Everyone can get up there in buckskins and cowboy hats, with their lever-action 30-30's and have a historical reenactment! That sounds like where it's heading. Things change, just like guns. You don't see people out there hunting coyotes with muzzleloaders anymore do you??? No, they evolved with the times and are shooting decked out $2000 AR's with thermal scopes and using $600 electronic calls. Just because the mouth/hand call side FINALLY evolved and a better call came out, you got the lazy people who can't or don't won't to take the time to use them using the excuse of "sticking with tradition". That's a bunch of BS and every one of you know it!!
To keep with history, you might as well have a class for blowing on a blade of grass to call in predators like the indians did!! That's how they used to do it and we need to keep up with tradition! LOL
It's sad to see the competition turn into a dang joke! When you run the best caller's off to give a mediocre caller a sense of achievement that they didn't earn, it's a joke! I wish I was skilled enough to be able to call with some of those guys, but I'm not and that's why I practice everyday to get better, if I won it, I wouldn't want it handed to me out of sympathy!
You talk about how the only thing the competition is about is "having fun". To call companies it's more than that. They spend lot's of money developing, testing, and manufacturing calls. Calling competitions, especially ones that hold a WORLD TITLE, are a way for call companies and callers to prove what sounds the best. If it's just for fun, why even keep score. You can do a it like 4 year old tee-ball game and not even keep score and give everyone a "Participation" trophy. You say politics aren't involved, but we can all see what side of the party you're on!
First off, I am not talking [beeep] about anyone. If I made reference to anything it was to attacks being made by some people towards others in this very thread. No allusion was ever made by me toward any person not here to defend themselves as you put it. Ever. And the guy that won the overall not only handed it to callers with diaphrams, but those that blow reed calls too. That is kinda hard to deny, isn't it? Nobody was singled out by me in that statement. He beat them ALL fairly. I'm only stating the results.
Quote:It's sad to see the competition turn into a dang joke! When you run the best caller's off to give a mediocre caller a sense of achievement that they didn't earn, it's a joke!
Who has been "run off" as you put it? Anyone? If you can name someone, how were they run off? I assure you, all entries have the same consideration.
Quote:To keep with history, you might as well have a class for blowing on a blade of grass to call in predators like the indians did!! That's how they used to do it and we need to keep up with tradition! LOL
Indians called and shot predators?
If they want to blow a blade of grass they can compete in the Open Class.
Already in the rules.
Quote:Just because the mouth/hand call side FINALLY evolved and a better call came out, you got the lazy people who can't or don't won't to take the time to use them using the excuse of "sticking with tradition". That's a bunch of BS and every one of you know it!!
"Better" is an opinion. What someone calls with is a personal choice. Why belittle, or openly bash someone for what tool they use? You think that people that use hand calls are lazy? Really? That's not biased in the least, now is it?
Beyond what I have addressed here, it seems that there is some confusion about the class that was added to this years competition. Let me try and clarify that for anyone that cares.
The contest runs just like it always has. All the callers get on stage and compete in the different divisions. Just like always. The only difference is that the caller himself designates whether he is in the Open class, or the Traditional class. They are all mixed up by the number they draw, and go on stage in that order, not by class, and they compete with one another in the entire competition. The judges know nothing about who the caller is, or what class they are in. They are scored anonymously by the judges.
The top scored callers in each category are advanced to the finals to compete for the World Title. At that stage, they are once again scrambled, and given a number respectfully designating their calling position onstage. Those finalists compete with one another in the same blind judging for the championship.
The only difference is that the top scorer in the Traditional and top scorer in the Open classes are both given recognition for having the top score in their respective classes. The overall world champion is awarded that by score. Not by the class they compete in. How is that taking something away from one, or giving something to the other?
Quote:To call companies it's more than that. They spend lot's of money developing, testing, and manufacturing calls. Calling competitions, especially ones that hold a WORLD TITLE, are a way for call companies and callers to prove what sounds the best.
So, you make this about "call companies"? Not so, in any form or fashion. But, to be fair, a lot of craftsmanship, time, trouble and expense are put into learning the craft of making a top notch hand call that sounds good when a good caller blows on it. You don't think they ought to have the same consideration and recognition for their efforts as well? Only those that YOU think ought to recognized for their contribution to their own product? How about giving ALL the competitors the same consideration?
Nobody is "taking anything away from anybody". And if you think the judging of the completion, or the way it is run shows any favoritism to any company, group, individual, or any other factor involved with the competition, you are dead wrong, Sir.
Perhaps commercialization of the contest, and contestants, has taken the fun out of it for some.
Quote:I wish I was skilled enough to be able to call with some of those guys, but I'm not and that's why I practice everyday to get better, if I won it, I wouldn't want it handed to me out of sympathy!
Probably a good thing you aren't trying to compete then..... Originally Posted By: rockinbbar And any disturbance of any sort, caused by anyone on the facility the Expo is held, or at any location connected with events of the Expo, or directed at any individual, group, booth, competitor, or Expo Staff will result in the immediate expulsion of the individual, or individuals responsible, with no refund of fees paid for booth space or entry fees of any sort, as well as removal of any award or title awarded to those individuals found to be responsible for such a disturbance.
On another note and this is meant with zero disrespect to anyone as I seen the natural voice calling video and thought it was pretty good. But how can one not place in distress or vocals and win the all around? Or as so eloquently put hand everyone their azzes?
I think that's what everyone was else was thinking too, cawilson82!!! Hard to say EVERYONE got their azzes handed to them, when the guys Barry is disrespectfully and unprofessionally talking sh*t about on an open forum(while being the contest director with the contest coming up in a few weeks) won all almost every trophy there. Hard to believe a contest coordinator would sit there and bad-mouth a couple guys that aren't even on this site to defend themselves, very unprofessional IMO!! Especially showing such bias, only weeks before the contest. Yeah, that seems real fair! LOL
Heck, if you want to take the contest back to 50 years ago, why don't you just change the name of it to the World Predator Calling Historical Reenactment??? Everyone can get up there in buckskins and cowboy hats, with their lever-action 30-30's and have a historical reenactment! That sounds like where it's heading. Things change, just like guns. You don't see people out there hunting coyotes with muzzleloaders anymore do you??? No, they evolved with the times and are shooting decked out $2000 AR's with thermal scopes and using $600 electronic calls. Just because the mouth/hand call side FINALLY evolved and a better call came out, you got the lazy people who can't or don't won't to take the time to use them using the excuse of "sticking with tradition". That's a bunch of BS and every one of you know it!!
To keep with history, you might as well have a class for blowing on a blade of grass to call in predators like the indians did!! That's how they used to do it and we need to keep up with tradition! LOL
It's sad to see the competition turn into a dang joke! When you run the best caller's off to give a mediocre caller a sense of achievement that they didn't earn, it's a joke! I wish I was skilled enough to be able to call with some of those guys, but I'm not and that's why I practice everyday to get better, if I won it, I wouldn't want it handed to me out of sympathy!
You talk about how the only thing the competition is about is "having fun". To call companies it's more than that. They spend lot's of money developing, testing, and manufacturing calls. Calling competitions, especially ones that hold a WORLD TITLE, are a way for call companies and callers to prove what sounds the best. If it's just for fun, why even keep score. You can do a it like 4 year old tee-ball game and not even keep score and give everyone a "Participation" trophy. You say politics aren't involved, but we can all see what side of the party you're on!
First off, I am not talking [beeep] about anyone. If I made reference to anything it was to attacks being made by some people towards others in this very thread. No allusion was ever made by me toward any person not here to defend themselves as you put it. Ever. And the guy that won the overall not only handed it to callers with diaphrams, but those that blow reed calls too. That is kinda hard to deny, isn't it? Nobody was singled out by me in that statement. He beat them ALL fairly. I'm only stating the results.
Quote:It's sad to see the competition turn into a dang joke! When you run the best caller's off to give a mediocre caller a sense of achievement that they didn't earn, it's a joke!
Who has been "run off" as you put it? Anyone? If you can name someone, how were they run off? I assure you, all entries have the same consideration.
Quote:To keep with history, you might as well have a class for blowing on a blade of grass to call in predators like the indians did!! That's how they used to do it and we need to keep up with tradition! LOL
Indians called and shot predators?
Quote:Just because the mouth/hand call side FINALLY evolved and a better call came out, you got the lazy people who can't or don't won't to take the time to use them using the excuse of "sticking with tradition". That's a bunch of BS and every one of you know it!!
"Better" is an opinion. What someone calls with is a personal choice. Why belittle, or openly bash someone for what tool they use? You think that people that use hand calls are lazy? Really? That's not biased in the least, now is it?
Beyond what I have addressed here, it seems that there is some confusion about the class that was added to this years competition. Let me try and clarify that for anyone that cares.
The contest runs just like it always has. All the callers get on stage and compete in the different divisions. Just like always. The only difference is that the caller himself designates whether he is in the Open class, or the Traditional class. They are all mixed up by the number they draw, and go on stage in that order, not by class, and they compete with one another in the entire competition. The judges know nothing about who the caller is, or what class they are in. They are scored anonymously by the judges.
The top scored callers in each category are advanced to the finals to compete for the World Title. At that stage, they are once again scrambled, and given a number respectfully designating their calling position onstage. Those finalists compete with one another in the same blind judging for the championship.
The only difference is that the top scorer in the Traditional and top scorer in the Open classes are both given recognition for having the top score in their respective classes. The overall world champion is awarded that by score. Not by the class they compete in. How is that taking something away from one, or giving something to the other?
Quote:To call companies it's more than that. They spend lot's of money developing, testing, and manufacturing calls. Calling competitions, especially ones that hold a WORLD TITLE, are a way for call companies and callers to prove what sounds the best.
So, you make this about "call companies"? Not so, in any form or fashion. But, to be fair, a lot of craftsmanship, time, trouble and expense are put into learning the craft of making a top notch hand call that sounds good when a good caller blows on it. You don't think they ought to have the same consideration and recognition for their efforts as well? Only those that YOU think ought to recognized for their contribution to their own product? How about giving ALL the competitors the same consideration?
Nobody is "taking anything away from anybody". And if you think the judging of the completion, or the way it is run shows any favoritism to any company, group, individual, or any other factor involved with the competition, you are dead wrong, Sir.
Perhaps commercialization of the contest, and contestants, has taken the fun out of it for some.
Quote:I wish I was skilled enough to be able to call with some of those guys, but I'm not and that's why I practice everyday to get better, if I won it, I wouldn't want it handed to me out of sympathy!
Probably a good thing you aren't trying to compete then..... Originally Posted By: rockinbbar And any disturbance of any sort, caused by anyone on the facility the Expo is held, or at any location connected with events of the Expo, or directed at any individual, group, booth, competitor, or Expo Staff will result in the immediate expulsion of the individual, or individuals responsible, with no refund of fees paid for booth space or entry fees of any sort, as well as removal of any award or title awarded to those individuals found to be responsible for such a disturbance.
cawilson82
New member
You said you can have a half dozen open reed calls on your neck. Those are your words. As to your questions I have not once had a diaphragm freeze nor stick. I usually only carry one. I can make all the howls , cottontail, jackrabbit, bird , and pup distress with a two reed pup howler. Having said that I can do the same on an open reed but it doesn't sound near as real.
cawilson82
New member
With that said I don't always use diaphragms or open reeds or electronics.
Originally Posted By: cawilson82I'm not trying to stir anything just curious. The guy that won the world wasn't even in the top three in either division so how does he advance to the championship? Like I said no disrespect to Matt at all I thought he sounded pretty good. That would be like someone who didn't qualify in the top 15 in any event winning the all around cowboy title. I've never been to a calling competition so I don't know how they are ran but I think in the past the world champion had at least placed in both divisions. Just wonder how that's all tallied.
That's exactly the reason this contest won't survive & become a widely recognized competition. It's being changed to promote handing out trophies to as many different people as possible so mediocre callers or hand call guys aren't intimidated to sign up, instead of just letting it be a contest of who sounds best regardless of what kind of call is used.
Barry, what qualifies you to run or know what's the best structure for a stage calling competition? Have you ever participated in stage calling competitions? What calling company are you field staff for? Are there any judges or contestants of the contest also associated with that company? Not trying to stir the pot. Just curious. Thanks!
That's exactly the reason this contest won't survive & become a widely recognized competition. It's being changed to promote handing out trophies to as many different people as possible so mediocre callers or hand call guys aren't intimidated to sign up, instead of just letting it be a contest of who sounds best regardless of what kind of call is used.
Barry, what qualifies you to run or know what's the best structure for a stage calling competition? Have you ever participated in stage calling competitions? What calling company are you field staff for? Are there any judges or contestants of the contest also associated with that company? Not trying to stir the pot. Just curious. Thanks!
rockinbbar
New member
Originally Posted By: Ben JimmyOriginally Posted By: cawilson82I'm not trying to stir anything just curious. The guy that won the world wasn't even in the top three in either division so how does he advance to the championship? Like I said no disrespect to Matt at all I thought he sounded pretty good. That would be like someone who didn't qualify in the top 15 in any event winning the all around cowboy title. I've never been to a calling competition so I don't know how they are ran but I think in the past the world champion had at least placed in both divisions. Just wonder how that's all tallied.
That's exactly the reason this contest won't survive & become a widely recognized competition. It's being changed to promote handing out trophies to as many different people as possible so mediocre callers or hand call guys aren't intimidated to sign up, instead of just letting it be a contest of who sounds best regardless of what kind of call is used.
Barry, what qualifies you to run or know what's the best structure for a stage calling competition? Have you ever participated in stage calling competitions? What calling company are you field staff for? Are there any judges or contestants of the contest also associated with that company? Not trying to stir the pot. Just curious. Thanks!
Other than being involved with the Expo since it's inception and it all got started again, and being in on the root development of what those that renewed the contest at the Expo, and heading up the last three world championship contests as the director, probably not much.
My being field staff for any company plays no part of an official capacity as the director for the calling competition that I can see, since electronic calls are not allowed, right? That'd be like asking me how I can have a job in newspaper office, and be a volunteer fire fighter. How does one interfere with the other? Probably what qualifies me best is the fact that I VOLUNTEER the time trouble and effort to actually try and make a contribution to the sport we enjoy.
If you have seen the judges list, you know that many judges are contributing. The judges are picked by their proven knowledge and professionalism with the sport. Not only are there judges that have affiliations with various companies, but there are judges that that have NO affiliations whatsoever. The judges are picked by their expertise, and not their affiliations. All of which are recognized for their expertise and knowledge.
And, I disagree. You ARE stirring the pot. That is obvious. Just my own observation. Thanks.
That's exactly the reason this contest won't survive & become a widely recognized competition. It's being changed to promote handing out trophies to as many different people as possible so mediocre callers or hand call guys aren't intimidated to sign up, instead of just letting it be a contest of who sounds best regardless of what kind of call is used.
Barry, what qualifies you to run or know what's the best structure for a stage calling competition? Have you ever participated in stage calling competitions? What calling company are you field staff for? Are there any judges or contestants of the contest also associated with that company? Not trying to stir the pot. Just curious. Thanks!
Other than being involved with the Expo since it's inception and it all got started again, and being in on the root development of what those that renewed the contest at the Expo, and heading up the last three world championship contests as the director, probably not much.
My being field staff for any company plays no part of an official capacity as the director for the calling competition that I can see, since electronic calls are not allowed, right? That'd be like asking me how I can have a job in newspaper office, and be a volunteer fire fighter. How does one interfere with the other? Probably what qualifies me best is the fact that I VOLUNTEER the time trouble and effort to actually try and make a contribution to the sport we enjoy.
If you have seen the judges list, you know that many judges are contributing. The judges are picked by their proven knowledge and professionalism with the sport. Not only are there judges that have affiliations with various companies, but there are judges that that have NO affiliations whatsoever. The judges are picked by their expertise, and not their affiliations. All of which are recognized for their expertise and knowledge.
And, I disagree. You ARE stirring the pot. That is obvious. Just my own observation. Thanks.
canislatrans54
New member
I would like to make something ABUNDANTLY clear.........
When, in an earlier post in this thread, I stated that I felt an open-reed howler "can't be beat"...I DID state that it was only my opinion.
I also stated that, I, could not get the hang of other types of howlers. Again, I was refering only to myself, NOT anyone else.
Quite possibly my lack of ability is based on either not being a turkey hunter...or based on the fact that I learned to use howls 18 years ago, on an original (blaze-orange colored) Crit'rCall Songdog, that I purchased face-to-face from Major Boddicker (and included an instructional booklet).
My lack of ability had/has nothing whatsoever to do with a lack of trying/practice on my part to learn to use other types of howlers.
I did not state that my howlers are "better"...or even "sound more realistic"...than anyone one else's howlers.......open-reed or diaphragm.
I also did not...nor recall EVER...disrespect another call or call maker, regardless of what type of call it is.
If someone feels that I actually did disrespect someone, then by all means, I do apologize.
Truly, EVERYONE can use whatever call they prefer, in my honest opinion. It matters not to me.
Just because I am confident in the calls I make, and have used, doesn't mean that I think they are better than anyone else's.
Nor do I honestly think that I am "better" than anyone else, when it comes to call usage.
I sure as heck would be the first to admit that I'm light-years from being any kind of expert....as a call user...or a call maker.
And I WILL NOT get into some sort of pizzing match with "whoever", over it.
However, as a guy who makes & uses cowhorn howlers...I have to admit one thing, please: If I DIDN'T have complete confidence in the ability of my calls to sound "realistic", as well as being easy to use...then why the heck would I have the confidence to sell them.???
I didn't start making horn howlers with an interest in becoming a HOB & selling them.
I truly didn't.
When I got the urge in Spring of '07, my ONLY intent was to make calls for myself & a few friends.
Granted, I asked for, and rec'd tips/techniques/suggestions from TT, Rick, Kerry, Guy Clark, Kent Constable and others. And each of these guys were VERY generous with me...answering my questions here on the forum; in phone conversations; and even, in the case of Kent, numerous times in person.
Without these guys I probably would have quit almost as soon as I started.
Besides suggestions & words of encouragement, I also sent "examples" of the howlers I was working on, to some of these guys & got their unvarnished feedback from them...as well as other non-call making members of Predator Masters.
Why do that if I didn't intend to sell?
Simple.
I wasn't satified with what I was doing, and wanted to improve...even if only for myself.
After nearly 2 years of my efforts to improve myself...and over a year of being told by several people that there might be a niche for my type of "working man's" howler...I allowed myself to be coaxed into becoming a paid HOB in '09.
To this day...I STILL, on a scale of 1-10, feel that my overall abilities are at maybe a 3 or 4....as far as the fit/finish/looks dept.
And my "engravings" are still maybe 1st-grade level "art".
However, whether out in the field on a calling stand, or in the hands of an accomplished caller in a "stage contest"...I have confidence that the sound & ease of use of my calls can hold their own.
BTW, I STILL am NOT anywhere near what I would refer to as "happy" with my product.
I am STILL trying to improve, in EVERY way I can.
{Which, since I have no shop...and only my hands, a Dremel, a 3/8" drill, & NO TALENT...it can be challenging for me.
If you agree with my opinion...then I humbly bow & give you much thanks.
If you do not agree with my opinion...then I humbly bow to you & shake your hand for being honest.
No grudges wanted, nor kept, as far as I am concerned.
When, in an earlier post in this thread, I stated that I felt an open-reed howler "can't be beat"...I DID state that it was only my opinion.
I also stated that, I, could not get the hang of other types of howlers. Again, I was refering only to myself, NOT anyone else.
Quite possibly my lack of ability is based on either not being a turkey hunter...or based on the fact that I learned to use howls 18 years ago, on an original (blaze-orange colored) Crit'rCall Songdog, that I purchased face-to-face from Major Boddicker (and included an instructional booklet).
My lack of ability had/has nothing whatsoever to do with a lack of trying/practice on my part to learn to use other types of howlers.
I did not state that my howlers are "better"...or even "sound more realistic"...than anyone one else's howlers.......open-reed or diaphragm.
I also did not...nor recall EVER...disrespect another call or call maker, regardless of what type of call it is.
If someone feels that I actually did disrespect someone, then by all means, I do apologize.
Truly, EVERYONE can use whatever call they prefer, in my honest opinion. It matters not to me.
Just because I am confident in the calls I make, and have used, doesn't mean that I think they are better than anyone else's.
Nor do I honestly think that I am "better" than anyone else, when it comes to call usage.
I sure as heck would be the first to admit that I'm light-years from being any kind of expert....as a call user...or a call maker.
And I WILL NOT get into some sort of pizzing match with "whoever", over it.
However, as a guy who makes & uses cowhorn howlers...I have to admit one thing, please: If I DIDN'T have complete confidence in the ability of my calls to sound "realistic", as well as being easy to use...then why the heck would I have the confidence to sell them.???
I didn't start making horn howlers with an interest in becoming a HOB & selling them.
I truly didn't.
When I got the urge in Spring of '07, my ONLY intent was to make calls for myself & a few friends.
Granted, I asked for, and rec'd tips/techniques/suggestions from TT, Rick, Kerry, Guy Clark, Kent Constable and others. And each of these guys were VERY generous with me...answering my questions here on the forum; in phone conversations; and even, in the case of Kent, numerous times in person.
Without these guys I probably would have quit almost as soon as I started.
Besides suggestions & words of encouragement, I also sent "examples" of the howlers I was working on, to some of these guys & got their unvarnished feedback from them...as well as other non-call making members of Predator Masters.
Why do that if I didn't intend to sell?
Simple.
I wasn't satified with what I was doing, and wanted to improve...even if only for myself.
After nearly 2 years of my efforts to improve myself...and over a year of being told by several people that there might be a niche for my type of "working man's" howler...I allowed myself to be coaxed into becoming a paid HOB in '09.
To this day...I STILL, on a scale of 1-10, feel that my overall abilities are at maybe a 3 or 4....as far as the fit/finish/looks dept.
And my "engravings" are still maybe 1st-grade level "art".
However, whether out in the field on a calling stand, or in the hands of an accomplished caller in a "stage contest"...I have confidence that the sound & ease of use of my calls can hold their own.
BTW, I STILL am NOT anywhere near what I would refer to as "happy" with my product.
I am STILL trying to improve, in EVERY way I can.
{Which, since I have no shop...and only my hands, a Dremel, a 3/8" drill, & NO TALENT...it can be challenging for me.
If you agree with my opinion...then I humbly bow & give you much thanks.
If you do not agree with my opinion...then I humbly bow to you & shake your hand for being honest.
No grudges wanted, nor kept, as far as I am concerned.
cawilson82
New member
I hardly ever go calling with 6 cowhorns on a string. Again just a ridiculous statement to try to discredit me instead of discussing the question asked here.
This is what I was referring to. I'm not trying to discredit you.
This is what I was referring to. I'm not trying to discredit you.
Even though Barry erased his post, I'll go ahead and answer his questions:
(Rockinbbar)
First off, I am not talking [beeep] about anyone. If I made reference to anything it was to attacks being made by some people towards others in this very thread. No allusion was ever made by me toward any person not here to defend themselves as you put it. Ever. And the guy that won the overall not only handed it to callers with diaphrams, but those that blow reed calls too. That is kinda hard to deny, isn't it? Nobody was singled out by me in that statement. He beat them ALL fairly. I'm only stating the results.
---Just to me and apparently others, I don't see how someone doesn't even place in the distress or howling then magically win's it all? Seem's like scoring is a little "all over the place". Not taking anything away from the guy that won the all-around, I don't know him from adam. I did hear within a few days though the guy that won the all-around went and joined up with the guys that won the distress and howling.
(Rockinbbar)
Who has been "run off" as you put it? Anyone? If you can name someone, how were they run off? I assure you, all entries have the same consideration.
---I don't know that anyone has as of now, but it will happen. I can't see your best callers standing up there very long unquestionably in the public eye as sounding the best, then having a biased calling contest coordinator hand out trophies to someone he "felt was being wronged". You go ahead and proceed like this, I'm just stating my opinion. This is a discussion forum isn't it. This is just my opinion.
(Rockinbbar)
Indians called and shot predators?
If they want to blow a blade of grass they can compete in the Open Class.
Already in the rules.
---Well there you go, should they wear headdress and all just to keep the historical ''theme" going??? I'd definitely travel out there if you have indians blowing grass competing. I do feel it's a little racist though not giving them their own class yet hand-callers get theirs. I smell LAWSUIT! LOL
(Rockinbbar)
"Better" is an opinion. What someone calls with is a personal choice. Why belittle, or openly bash someone for what tool they use? You think that people that use hand calls are lazy? Really? That's not biased in the least, now is it?
---DUDE, you can't be deaf and DUMB! I don't even use diaphragms, I can't and never will because for some reason they make me gag, but I will be the first to admit there by far the most realistic sounding call. Is this competition not for the "Best Sounding Caller"?? I don't care what "tool" people use when hunting, I personally use an e-caller and some hand calls. I hunt with a friend that uses diaphragms and he blow's away any sound that comes from either of the aforementioned calls. This isn't about what someone uses when hunting, this is a competition "originally" designed to see who was the best and could make the most realistic sounds. It seems like you've developed some superiority complex and feel like you are totally revolutionalizing the World Calling Contest. The contest was here long before you and run very fairly. It seems like when you took over was when all the problems started. Just sayin'!
(Rockinbbar)
So, you make this about "call companies"? Not so, in any form or fashion. But, to be fair, a lot of craftsmanship, time, trouble and expense are put into learning the craft of making a top notch hand call that sounds good when a good caller blows on it. You don't think they ought to have the same consideration and recognition for their efforts as well? Only those that YOU think ought to recognized for their contribution to their own product? How about giving ALL the competitors the same consideration?
---This isn't a competition for who can make the prettiest call, it's for who sounds the best. I think that's the part you're not getting. I don't care if you get up there and blow on a whiskey jug, if you sound the best you should win. You have a long way to go my friend in learning how to run a calling contest, but I'm glad you have the simple mindedness to think you have it all figured out. Must be a real treat living in Barry's head for a day!
(Rockinbbar)
Perhaps commercialization of the contest, and contestants, has taken the fun out of it for some.
---Perhaps, but that's the name of the game and for guys out there that this is their business and how they earn a living, it's more than just a fun day in Waco.
(Rockinbbar)
Probably a good thing you aren't trying to compete then.....
(Rockinbbar)
First off, I am not talking [beeep] about anyone. If I made reference to anything it was to attacks being made by some people towards others in this very thread. No allusion was ever made by me toward any person not here to defend themselves as you put it. Ever. And the guy that won the overall not only handed it to callers with diaphrams, but those that blow reed calls too. That is kinda hard to deny, isn't it? Nobody was singled out by me in that statement. He beat them ALL fairly. I'm only stating the results.
---Just to me and apparently others, I don't see how someone doesn't even place in the distress or howling then magically win's it all? Seem's like scoring is a little "all over the place". Not taking anything away from the guy that won the all-around, I don't know him from adam. I did hear within a few days though the guy that won the all-around went and joined up with the guys that won the distress and howling.
(Rockinbbar)
Who has been "run off" as you put it? Anyone? If you can name someone, how were they run off? I assure you, all entries have the same consideration.
---I don't know that anyone has as of now, but it will happen. I can't see your best callers standing up there very long unquestionably in the public eye as sounding the best, then having a biased calling contest coordinator hand out trophies to someone he "felt was being wronged". You go ahead and proceed like this, I'm just stating my opinion. This is a discussion forum isn't it. This is just my opinion.
(Rockinbbar)
Indians called and shot predators?
---Well there you go, should they wear headdress and all just to keep the historical ''theme" going??? I'd definitely travel out there if you have indians blowing grass competing. I do feel it's a little racist though not giving them their own class yet hand-callers get theirs. I smell LAWSUIT! LOL
(Rockinbbar)
"Better" is an opinion. What someone calls with is a personal choice. Why belittle, or openly bash someone for what tool they use? You think that people that use hand calls are lazy? Really? That's not biased in the least, now is it?
---DUDE, you can't be deaf and DUMB! I don't even use diaphragms, I can't and never will because for some reason they make me gag, but I will be the first to admit there by far the most realistic sounding call. Is this competition not for the "Best Sounding Caller"?? I don't care what "tool" people use when hunting, I personally use an e-caller and some hand calls. I hunt with a friend that uses diaphragms and he blow's away any sound that comes from either of the aforementioned calls. This isn't about what someone uses when hunting, this is a competition "originally" designed to see who was the best and could make the most realistic sounds. It seems like you've developed some superiority complex and feel like you are totally revolutionalizing the World Calling Contest. The contest was here long before you and run very fairly. It seems like when you took over was when all the problems started. Just sayin'!
(Rockinbbar)
So, you make this about "call companies"? Not so, in any form or fashion. But, to be fair, a lot of craftsmanship, time, trouble and expense are put into learning the craft of making a top notch hand call that sounds good when a good caller blows on it. You don't think they ought to have the same consideration and recognition for their efforts as well? Only those that YOU think ought to recognized for their contribution to their own product? How about giving ALL the competitors the same consideration?
---This isn't a competition for who can make the prettiest call, it's for who sounds the best. I think that's the part you're not getting. I don't care if you get up there and blow on a whiskey jug, if you sound the best you should win. You have a long way to go my friend in learning how to run a calling contest, but I'm glad you have the simple mindedness to think you have it all figured out. Must be a real treat living in Barry's head for a day!
(Rockinbbar)
Perhaps commercialization of the contest, and contestants, has taken the fun out of it for some.
---Perhaps, but that's the name of the game and for guys out there that this is their business and how they earn a living, it's more than just a fun day in Waco.
(Rockinbbar)
Probably a good thing you aren't trying to compete then.....
rockinbbar said:And any disturbance of any sort, caused by anyone on the facility the Expo is held, or at any location connected with events of the Expo, or directed at any individual, group, booth, competitor, or Expo Staff will result in the immediate expulsion of the individual, or individuals responsible, with no refund of fees paid for booth space or entry fees of any sort, as well as removal of any award or title awarded to those individuals found to be responsible for such a disturbance.
---Yep, probably is!
rockinbbar
New member
I erased a post? Where? When? I stand by everything I said.
I don't even know you, or who you are...And you don't know me from Adam either. But, it's clear you must have SOME kind of dog in this hunt. Perhaps you can enlighten us?
While we are at it, why don't you tell us all what contributions YOU make toward anything that you believe is a good cause?
There are whole companies and groups that don't make any contribution to anything worthwhile. There are sponsorships open and available. Why not? Why not take the time trouble and expense to pay for travel to the Expo and volunteer YOUR time like myself and the judges of the event do....Out of our own pockets. Just because we try to help something we enjoy seeing.
There are givers, and there are takers. And then there are those that post whiney azz posts on message boards, but don't have the guts to reveal who they are, or why they have an axe to grind.... Dime a dozen.
I don't even know you, or who you are...And you don't know me from Adam either. But, it's clear you must have SOME kind of dog in this hunt. Perhaps you can enlighten us?
While we are at it, why don't you tell us all what contributions YOU make toward anything that you believe is a good cause?
There are whole companies and groups that don't make any contribution to anything worthwhile. There are sponsorships open and available. Why not? Why not take the time trouble and expense to pay for travel to the Expo and volunteer YOUR time like myself and the judges of the event do....Out of our own pockets. Just because we try to help something we enjoy seeing.
There are givers, and there are takers. And then there are those that post whiney azz posts on message boards, but don't have the guts to reveal who they are, or why they have an axe to grind.... Dime a dozen.
Redfrog
Moderator
You missed my point.
Ben Jimmy said that as a cheap shot at me.
Do you really believe that anyone would go calling with 6 cowhorns on a string???
It must be a real pain keeping a pocket full of diaphragms sorted out, what with your gum, lunch, gatorade and payday bar all in the same pocket with them. See what I mean. Of course you wouldn't do that. No serious caller would.
Or maybe you guys beating the drum for Diaphragms have no clue that an open reed call can be, and usually is, something other than a cowhorn caller.
Maybe you can tell me how you dig out a diaphragm from your case or put one back with thermal gloves on?
You guys don't get it.
I don't care if you use a diaphragm or a squeaking truck door, I use open reeds, closed reeds and sometimes even bite reed calls. That's what works for me.
That's all there is to it. If you like diaphragms, great!! I don't know any other way to say it.
I have never seen a caller who used one of the above mentioned calls, get down on someone who uses diaphragms. BUT It seems like every time the diaphragms are brought up the same 5 or 6 guys jump on anyone who doesn't use them.
Believe me when I say this behavior has run its course here.
Now if anyone wants to discuss the pros and cons of call types or has any questions of me, fire away.
If you are here to stir the pot, I'd strongly suggest you don't.
Ben Jimmy said that as a cheap shot at me.
Do you really believe that anyone would go calling with 6 cowhorns on a string???
It must be a real pain keeping a pocket full of diaphragms sorted out, what with your gum, lunch, gatorade and payday bar all in the same pocket with them. See what I mean. Of course you wouldn't do that. No serious caller would.
Or maybe you guys beating the drum for Diaphragms have no clue that an open reed call can be, and usually is, something other than a cowhorn caller.
Maybe you can tell me how you dig out a diaphragm from your case or put one back with thermal gloves on?
You guys don't get it.
I don't care if you use a diaphragm or a squeaking truck door, I use open reeds, closed reeds and sometimes even bite reed calls. That's what works for me.
That's all there is to it. If you like diaphragms, great!! I don't know any other way to say it.
I have never seen a caller who used one of the above mentioned calls, get down on someone who uses diaphragms. BUT It seems like every time the diaphragms are brought up the same 5 or 6 guys jump on anyone who doesn't use them.
Believe me when I say this behavior has run its course here.
Now if anyone wants to discuss the pros and cons of call types or has any questions of me, fire away.
If you are here to stir the pot, I'd strongly suggest you don't.
Originally Posted By: rockinbbar...but don't have the guts to reveal who they are, or why they have an axe to grind.... Dime a dozen.
I've been on this site for 6 years Barry and according to the sign-up dates under our names, only a month after you did. My name is Taylor King. No axes here, just opinions and apparently mine differs from yours'.
Back to the original post, try several different types of calls. Some you may be able to use, some you may not. Listen to sound clips, youtube vids, tv-shows and that will give you an idea of what each different call's sound potential is.
IMO,
Most realistic: Diaphragms
Easy to use: Open/Closed Reeds
Easiest to use: E-call
There ya go….
I've been on this site for 6 years Barry and according to the sign-up dates under our names, only a month after you did. My name is Taylor King. No axes here, just opinions and apparently mine differs from yours'.
Back to the original post, try several different types of calls. Some you may be able to use, some you may not. Listen to sound clips, youtube vids, tv-shows and that will give you an idea of what each different call's sound potential is.
IMO,
Most realistic: Diaphragms
Easy to use: Open/Closed Reeds
Easiest to use: E-call
There ya go….
rockinbbar
New member
Well, Taylor. That's great.
Varying opinions can happen. I support your right to your opinion for sure.
Was just curious what made you feel like you are qualified to know how a national level competition is run, and if you saw anything that I posted about contest rules that struck you as being unfair? And if you think something is unfair...How so?
Varying opinions can happen. I support your right to your opinion for sure.
Was just curious what made you feel like you are qualified to know how a national level competition is run, and if you saw anything that I posted about contest rules that struck you as being unfair? And if you think something is unfair...How so?
cawilson82
New member
Originally Posted By: RedfrogYou missed my point.
Ben Jimmy said that as a cheap shot at me.
Do you really believe that anyone would go calling with 6 cowhorns on a string???
It must be a real pain keeping a pocket full of diaphragms sorted out, what with your gum, lunch, gatorade and payday bar all in the same pocket with them. See what I mean. Of course you wouldn't do that. No serious caller would.
Or maybe you guys beating the drum for Diaphragms have no clue that an open reed call can be, and usually is, something other than a cowhorn caller.
Maybe you can tell me how you dig out a diaphragm from your case or put one back with thermal gloves on?
You guys don't get it.
I don't care if you use a diaphragm or a squeaking truck door, I use open reeds, closed reeds and sometimes even bite reed calls. That's what works for me.
That's all there is to it. If you like diaphragms, great!! I don't know any other way to say it.
I have never seen a caller who used one of the above mentioned calls, get down on someone who uses diaphragms. BUT It seems like every time the diaphragms are brought up the same 5 or 6 guys jump on anyone who doesn't use them.
Believe me when I say this behavior has run its course here.
Now if anyone wants to discuss the pros and cons of call types or has any questions of me, fire away.
If you are here to stir the pot, I'd strongly suggest you don't.
I also stated I use open reeds and what not as well. You said you carry 6 then you say you don't then you say you do then back to dont. I'm just trying to know which one it is.
Personally when I use an open reed none of which are made out of cowhorns I just have one on a single lanyard on my neck. When I use diaphragm I put it in my mouth before I get outta the truck. I've never owned a closed reed that sounded good. I to have trouble keeping the same diaphragm in good condition because I use it often and honestly I'm hard on stuff. I use it and don't pet it.
My favorite open reeds are from Tony Tebbe and some I've gotten from Travis Alzate. I have used several different diaphragms and the best in my opinion or made by those whose name we dare not mention.
Ben Jimmy said that as a cheap shot at me.
Do you really believe that anyone would go calling with 6 cowhorns on a string???
It must be a real pain keeping a pocket full of diaphragms sorted out, what with your gum, lunch, gatorade and payday bar all in the same pocket with them. See what I mean. Of course you wouldn't do that. No serious caller would.
Or maybe you guys beating the drum for Diaphragms have no clue that an open reed call can be, and usually is, something other than a cowhorn caller.
Maybe you can tell me how you dig out a diaphragm from your case or put one back with thermal gloves on?
You guys don't get it.
I don't care if you use a diaphragm or a squeaking truck door, I use open reeds, closed reeds and sometimes even bite reed calls. That's what works for me.
That's all there is to it. If you like diaphragms, great!! I don't know any other way to say it.
I have never seen a caller who used one of the above mentioned calls, get down on someone who uses diaphragms. BUT It seems like every time the diaphragms are brought up the same 5 or 6 guys jump on anyone who doesn't use them.
Believe me when I say this behavior has run its course here.
Now if anyone wants to discuss the pros and cons of call types or has any questions of me, fire away.
If you are here to stir the pot, I'd strongly suggest you don't.
I also stated I use open reeds and what not as well. You said you carry 6 then you say you don't then you say you do then back to dont. I'm just trying to know which one it is.
Personally when I use an open reed none of which are made out of cowhorns I just have one on a single lanyard on my neck. When I use diaphragm I put it in my mouth before I get outta the truck. I've never owned a closed reed that sounded good. I to have trouble keeping the same diaphragm in good condition because I use it often and honestly I'm hard on stuff. I use it and don't pet it.
My favorite open reeds are from Tony Tebbe and some I've gotten from Travis Alzate. I have used several different diaphragms and the best in my opinion or made by those whose name we dare not mention.
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