Difference between nickel and brass cases?

Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeDoes nickled brass anneal any diff than brass ?

Same same...

And it polishes up beautifully.

I supply ammunition to the largest public outdoor range within a few hundred miles.

Last fall I have a few thousand 308 FC nickeled cases and decided to load them for my client.

I sized them in a Carbide FL sizer, and then polished them for 10 hours, and loaded them - they looked like the bumper of a 1957 Cadillac.

When I delivered them, and the counter guys were looking at them, and comparing them to new 308 FC Match.

A customer was watching and came over to look - and he wrote a check for the entire bunch right on the spot.

I'll take all the nickeled brass you want to get rid of.
 
All I can relate is my experience w/ nickel brass. It takes just one scratch to ruin a die. Not only have there been scratches in the nickel, but I have seen the nickel peel in a couple cases.
Not worth taking a chance in my view. I wish you continued success w/ your use of nickel brass.
 
Originally Posted By: jpretleAll I can relate is my experience w/ nickel brass. It takes just one scratch to ruin a die. Not only have there been scratches in the nickel, but I have seen the nickel peel in a couple cases.
Not worth taking a chance in my view. I wish you continued success w/ your use of nickel brass.


I have always wondered (actually, been friggin' AMAZED) at how people claim that they scratched their dies with Nickel plated cases... when the hardness of Nickel is Brinell ~2, and the hardness of die grade hardened tool steel is over Brinell 800 (meaning that steel is eleventy-seven tons harder than Nickel).

Soft stuff never scratches hard stuff.

Can anyone out there throw some light on this "myth"???

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Originally Posted By: Chupathingy
Well, anyone can win a debate with facts. Takes a real pro to win with nothing but determination and rumors.

Chupa



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You made me laugh out loud!!!
 
I have a set of lee .357 does that have had about 12k rounds thru them and they havnt scratched a single one. Actually wore out a contender barrel with that set of dies.
 
I use nickel brass in my 223 bolt guns. All the brass brass cases go through a small base die for my ARs. Easier to keep separate that way.
 
Originally Posted By: jpretleCatshooter, what is the hardness of the brass in Brinell terms???

There are standards for testing hardness. It depends on the "penetrator" (the size or shape of the thing you push into the metal) and the "load" or force you use. They are not all convertible.

The scale I looked for brass has a different standard for nickel... so I'll give all three under this test scale.

Brass = 60, Nickle = 140, hardened tool steel = 790.

That should put it in some sensical order - Nickel is a little harder than brass (but, as we know, brass can vary a LOT)... but tool steel is one hellova lot harder than nickel.
 
Here's what I have found. I have seen nickel flake off and get into my dies and then leave marks on regular brass. If this happens, clean your dies. As previously stated, nickel can, in no way, scratch and ruin your die. It obviously appears that way for some because they have an accumulation of some foreign matter in their die. It ain't rocket science.........but science none the less.
 
I have used nickel in 40,357,223,243,25-06 and really like the way it feeds through the die and cleans up. The only thing that I have found is that I have to trim the nickel a little more than brass. But that is only in the 25-06. If I needed to get some brass and they had 300 rounds of brass and 300 rounds of nickel I would grab all of it and not worry about it.
 
Well Catshooter, it appears you are much more versed in the fine art of metallurgy, than I am. It also appears I made an incorrect diagnosis on my problem, which occurred many years ago. It brings to mind one of Donald Rumsfelds' quotes---"You don't know what you don't know, until you know what you don't know." Apparently I fit that bill, til now and on this topic, anyway. Thanks for taking the time to set me straight, as well as a few others.
I still wonder about the peeling/flaking occurance, however.

One other thing I learned here, is that it doesn't take much for a 'dogpile' to occur, and no one even has to yell it out.
For those of you who 'dogpiled',instead of informing/sharing your knowledge, TSK,TSK,TSK.
Refer to the above quote.
Keep 'em Centered,
 
Originally Posted By: jpretleWell Catshooter, it appears you are much more versed in the fine art of metallurgy, than I am. It also appears I made an incorrect diagnosis on my problem, which occurred many years ago. It brings to mind one of Donald Rumsfelds' quotes---"You don't know what you don't know, until you know what you don't know." Apparently I fit that bill, til now and on this topic, anyway. Thanks for taking the time to set me straight, as well as a few others.
I still wonder about the peeling/flaking occurance, however.

One other thing I learned here, is that it doesn't take much for a 'dogpile' to occur, and no one even has to yell it out.
For those of you who 'dogpiled', instead of informing/sharing your knowledge, TSK, TSK, TSK.
Refer to the above quote.
Keep 'em Centered,

Sorry for your bruised ego, but sometimes, life's lessons are expensive.

When someone says, "I think..." or, "I heard" that is one thing...

... but when someone says, "This is the way it is," and gives others warnings, then that person OWNS that statement, and all of the bruises that come with enlightenment.

You have been a member for 8-ish years, but have posted only 23 times (including this thread).

You should read more - we cover a lot of good information and blow off many myths.

As far as your comment about not "sharing information, TSK, TSK, TSK...."

... someone asked a question, and we shared a lot of information, even before you joined the thread.

With all of the positive information and comments made, I would think you might have entered this thread with a little more caution, instead of barging in and warning everyone about how they are going to ruin their dies.

Sometimes we learn a lot more than we know, when we interact with others - I hope you did. Rumsfeld was a wise man.


 
"This is the way it is,"
I hardly made such a definitive statement--only expressed what I believed to be my experience, which admittedly was an incorrect diagnosis, based on your expertise, which I thanked you for.
I fully admitted having learned. Additionally,I solicited you for additional information.
Comments like, "Some guys don't know when to stop" and 'winning w/ determination and rumors', are hardly contributory and informative. They 'piled on', to your AMAZED comment. Maybe because they couldn't provide anything informative???? other than X #'s of brass for X'#'s of years, w/o a problem.

I apologize for 'barging in', to the circle.
A, 'you are welcome', would have been most appropriate.
As always,
Keep 'em Centered, and Center Mass, should they come for you.
"Never find delight in the misfortune of others."(Publilius Syrus---c.1st Century BC)
 


Originally Posted By: jpretle
"Never find delight in the misfortune of others."(Publilius Syrus---c.1st Century BC)



And... "Walk with care in new lands" (CatShooter c.~ 2014 AD)
 
Originally Posted By: jpretle"This is the way it is,"
I hardly made such a definitive statement--only expressed what I believed to be my experience, which admittedly was an incorrect diagnosis, based on your expertise, which I thanked you for.
I fully admitted having learned. Additionally,I solicited you for additional information.
Comments like, "Some guys don't know when to stop" and 'winning w/ determination and rumors', are hardly contributory and informative. They 'piled on', to your AMAZED comment. Maybe because they couldn't provide anything informative???? other than X #'s of brass for X'#'s of years, w/o a problem.

I apologize for 'barging in', to the circle.
A, 'you are welcome', would have been most appropriate.
As always,
Keep 'em Centered, and Center Mass, should they come for you.
"Never find delight in the misfortune of others."(Publilius Syrus---c.1st Century BC)



How do you know that Pahntr760 wasn't referring to me? Learn to laugh a little, I stick my foot in my mouth all the time and get razzed for it, when it's funny.......It's funny. Nobody thinks less of you because you said something goofy, but I will poke the bear when you( or anyone) do it. Next time I say something stupid (and I will) get in line to joke at my expense, I can take it as long as it's funny.


Chupa
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: jpretleWell Catshooter, it appears you are much more versed in the fine art of metallurgy, than I am. It also appears I made an incorrect diagnosis on my problem, which occurred many years ago. It brings to mind one of Donald Rumsfelds' quotes---"You don't know what you don't know, until you know what you don't know." Apparently I fit that bill, til now and on this topic, anyway. Thanks for taking the time to set me straight, as well as a few others.
I still wonder about the peeling/flaking occurance, however.

One other thing I learned here, is that it doesn't take much for a 'dogpile' to occur, and no one even has to yell it out.
For those of you who 'dogpiled', instead of informing/sharing your knowledge, TSK, TSK, TSK.
Refer to the above quote.
Keep 'em Centered,

Sorry for your bruised ego, but sometimes, life's lessons are expensive.

When someone says, "I think..." or, "I heard" that is one thing...

... but when someone says, "This is the way it is," and gives others warnings, then that person OWNS that statement, and all of the bruises that come with enlightenment.

You have been a member for 8-ish years, but have posted only 23 times (including this thread).

You should read more - we cover a lot of good information and blow off many myths.

As far as your comment about not "sharing information, TSK, TSK, TSK...."

... someone asked a question, and we shared a lot of information, even before you joined the thread.

With all of the positive information and comments made, I would think you might have entered this thread with a little more caution, instead of barging in and warning everyone about how they are going to ruin their dies.

Sometimes we learn a lot more than we know, when we interact with others - I hope you did. Rumsfeld was a wise man.




All that you posted on this thread is very true CatShooter. Two of the things you brought up are so often ignored or not adhered to now days. One is: Quote:When someone says, "I think..." it is getting so that you can't trust others "thinking" any more. In this new world of instant gratitude "thinking" is not required or condoned and I don't like where that heads. There are many folks now days who just can't figure anything out on their own and/or won't/can't research it so they can get it figured out, and this being the age of technology. I wonder how some of us ever made it with out the Internet.
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And the second is: Quote: but when someone says, "This is the way it is," and gives others warnings, then that person OWNS that statement, and all of the bruises that come with enlightenment. that I believe is called accountability and not much of that around anymore either.
All of this to say; its not hard to figure out or so a search in order to determine that brass and nickel plating is softer than the hardened steel used in dies.
Such is the "new" age of reasoning.
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