Dirtiest bore I ever seen....

Flatlander.54

Flatlander.54

New member
I picked up a used Savage Model 10 .223 last weekend. I wiped the bore just to make sure there were no obstructions and then put 20 rounds of Remington 45 gr. PSP through it. Accuracy was expected with the PSP's...bout 1 1/2" @ 100 yards.
I picked up a case of Remingon 45 gr. HP's today and decided to give the bore a thorough cleaning tonight, then go out tomorow and see how the HP's do. Im 1 1/2 hours into it and Im still pulling black crud out of the bore. Never had one take this long to get clean, Ive used everything I have available. Birchwood Casey copper/nitro Solvent, regular old Hoppes Solvent, Outers Foaming Bore Cleaner, and even worked the bore over with JB Non-embedding Bore Polishing Compund.
I have another load of the foaming bore cleaner in the bore now letting it work. The really strange thing is that I am not pulling any blue/green color out on the patches...just jet black rings on the patches where the jag/patch contact the bore. Could the carbon build up be that stubborn that I have not broken through it yet to get to the copper fouling underneath? Just dont make any sense that im not getting copper residue on the patches...just black crud.
 
As far as I know carbon builds in layers.. get some Wipe out and let it sit in there over night.. It works wonders
 
I guess you know that if you are using JB Bore paste, the patches will come out black, even on a clean barrel?

I use Butches or shooters choice and let the chemical work for a while. Then a brass brush. I'd let the foaming bore cleaner work for at least 2-4 hours, then run the brush through some more.

The foaming cleaner seems to work better for copper and the regular solvents tend to cut carbon better for me.
 
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Since you have the Outer's Foaming Bore Cleaner, I'd suggest loading the chamber/barrel with a goodly amount and letting it sit overnight with the muzzle angled down and a cloth under it to catch the drips...Sounds like a good soaking is needed and save your elbow grease...

I picked up an old 1891 Argentine Mauser a couple of years ago and soaked it twice and the 'river' coming out of it was Indigo Blue in a big puddle...

If the carbon ring is that thick or solid, soaking will break it down much better...
 
Originally Posted By: CoyotejunkiYou do know that if you are using JB Bore paste, the patches will come out black, even on a clean barrel?

I use Butches or shooters choice and let the chemical work for a while. Then a brass brush.

Yes I realize the JB patches come out black from the poishing action, but even after wiping the black JB residue out and running several solvent patches through Im still pulling black...I was pulling black out before I used the JB compound also. I rarely use a brass brush on a bore, but have resorted to it on this one. Will let it soak with the foaming bore cleaner a while and see what it looks like. May try Turtles suggestion and let some sit overnight as well.
 
Well I was beginning to wonder if maybe the bore was corroded/pitted...and maybe thats why it was holding on to so much crud, but thankfully thats not the case. It looks nice and smooth all the way down, I guess the previous owner just wasnt into cleaning too much, or maybe was reloading with some really dirty burning powder.
I just wiped out the last round of foaming cleaner and am down to dark gray crud now instead of black...so theres a little progress. Another batch of foam working now.
 
If you know anyone with an Outers Electronic Bore Cleaner, see if you can borrow it. I have one and I cleaned my rife so clean it was "spotless", or so I thought. You would not believe how much stuff was on the rod when I pulled it out. There is a copper solution and a lead solution. It pulled so much copper and rust (more rust)out I couldn't believe it. You're looking at this very bright/clean bore, patches coming out spotless and then to see this was like WOW. Good tool.
 
Originally Posted By: OKBrentJust throwing somthing out...but could it be moly-coating??? Brent

Never thought of that...Ive never used moly coating so I dont know if it leaves behind a residue thats hard to get oout of the bore or not. Maybe someone with experience with moly will chime in. I do know the local gun shop sells moly coated bullets...maybe the previous owner used them. Thanks for the input OKBrent, that could explain the situation.
 
Originally Posted By: stanlyIf you know anyone with an Outers Electronic Bore Cleaner, see if you can borrow it. I have one and I cleaned my rife so clean it was "spotless", or so I thought. You would not believe how much stuff was on the rod when I pulled it out. There is a copper solution and a lead solution. It pulled so much copper and rust (more rust)out I couldn't believe it. You're looking at this very bright/clean bore, patches coming out spotless and then to see this was like WOW. Good tool.

Stanley...did you notice an increase/decrease in accuracy after using the Electronic Bore Cleaner?
 
So if there were copper fouling under the moly it might not show up on the patches until the moly has been removed?
You know...come to think of it this moly theory might just be the answer cause this bore is super slick. Thats another reason I felt the whole situation didnt make sense...a bore that filthy just wouldnt feel/look that smooth. Then again I might just be full of beans, who knows.
 
Finally got all the black out and am now finally pulling blue patches out. If it was moly in the bore I believe I have finally gotten it all out, now to get rid of this copper fouling which is really bad judging by the looks of the patches, very dark blue.
 
For heavy carbon layers I've had good success using 50/50% solution of Hoppes #9 and Kroil and letting it soak overnight. The Kroil is said to penetrate into the carbon layers better. Who knows if so but it seems to do best on the lead/carbon. You'll still have to use copper cleaners if needed.

I too feel that the foams work great on copper but not as good on the soot.
 
In my .280, and that's the rifle I was talking about, it didn't really make a difference as far as the accuracy went, but boy that sucker was really clean!! It sounds like you might be right with the moly thing. I've never shot a bullet with moly coating and if they truly gunk things up that bad I never will. I thought the whole point behind moly coating was to prevent fouling? The Outers really works great on handguns pulling lead out really fast.
 
My bet is moly too. Either way, Kroil is your friend... cork and soak a bore full of it over night, then use some Hollands witches brew per the instructions. Should clean you right up.
 
Thanks for all the help and ideas fellas, I finally beat it though. Just finished up...got through whatever the black crud was (I think it was moly like the rest of you said) and got down to the copper fouling which was pretty heavy, but the foaming bore cleaner made pretty quick work of that once I got to it. Now, Im pulling patches that are nice and white.
Now I can go out and dirty it all up again tomorrow.
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Interested to see how the Remington 45 grain HP's do in it as the last time I ran some through a Savage I was really suprised how accurate they were.
 
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