Distance off the lands for Vmax bullets

mspingy

mspingy

New member
I just bought a Stoney Point OAL gage & Bullet Comparator from Dillon to help me set the bullet the proper distance off the lands.

I have a Savage Model 12 in 22-250 that I want to use for varmints. I am using Hornady 55 grain Vmax bullets, and Varget powder. I have heard that .010 of the lands works best with this powder and bullet.

Please give me any advice regarding distance off the lands.

Thanks
 
You just have to try it at different distances. Somewhere between .020" into the rifling to .020" from the rifling usually works. Except for the VLD bullets which usually like about .040" into the rifling.

Jack
 
Quote:
You just have to try it at different distances. Somewhere between .020" into the rifling to .020" from the rifling usually works. Except for the VLD bullets which usually like about .040" into the rifling.

Jack



I agree,theres really no set measurement that is the most accurate in any gun.Having said that I loaded some 55 gr v-max .010" from the lands and just loaded a few with different charge weights of powder and got .77" groups from my model 7 .223. Plenty accurate for what I bought the gun for.
 
the load is the first thing to work on. You find the right powder charge and then the seating depth is the final tweek for max accuracy. I usually go .010" off for a start unless it is a match grade barrel, and then maybe .005" off or .005" into the lands as a start. And the VLD's do seem to like a jamm seat from what I have seen as well. Work the load first, then shoot several groups at varying seating depths to determine the winner.
 
At this point I agree 100% with this. I just started loading some V-Max just to play with in the .223. I started all loads .010 off the lands and only played with powder charge. In increments of .5gr of powder I was having pretty dismal results of about 1.5" or "minute of coyote" until I hit the 26.5gr load and then magically I am at .54" 5 shot group. I will load that batch up a couple of more times and if the results are the same I probably will not mess any more with the seating depths or the powder charge.
 
Another question for JustC. I have an old rem.700 with a factory bull barrel. VERY slight taper . It was a single load bench gun. It’s been doing .75 average. with factory Hornady 55g Vmax. I have couple hundred to load now. I’m thinking magnum primers , H4350 and same pills. You mentioned that “ unless the barrel is match grade “ to use 10 off . If this is a match barrel what would you suggest to start charge development ? It’s probably a 70s gun. I have not run the numbers yet. There is slight fire cracking but not bad. I love the little screamer. Going to do the full load development and use the H4350 cuz I’m using it for coyotes as I added a mag well and new chassis . Topped it with NV . I love this little toy. It’s real consistent with the Hornady factory loads . Will be happy to keep it grouping just under a minute .
Suggestions , this is my first 22:250
Tx ,
Joe
 
Espo said:
Another question for JustC. I have an old rem.700 with a factory bull barrel. VERY slight taper . It was a single load bench gun. It’s been doing .75 average. with factory Hornady 55g Vmax. I have couple hundred to load now. I’m thinking magnum primers , H4350 and same pills. You mentioned that “ unless the barrel is match grade “ to use 10 off . If this is a match barrel what would you suggest to start charge development ? It’s probably a 70s gun. I have not run the numbers yet. There is slight fire cracking but not bad. I love the little screamer. Going to do the full load development and use the H4350 cuz I’m using it for coyotes as I added a mag well and new chassis . Topped it with NV . I love this little toy. It’s real consistent with the Hornady factory loads . Will be happy to keep it grouping just under a minute .
Suggestions , this is my first 22:250
Tx ,
Joe
Click to expand...

Might be an an old thread, but it's still valid.

For almost everything I shoot, when working up loads to find the best accuracy, I generally start in the lands.010" or so.

Once I find where I want to be with the powder, I'll move to a bullet seating test, starting with the original OAL, then there's only one way to go.

Then I'll go 010" off, and then what ever incremental you want to play with, whether it's .010, .020, etc.
 
alf said:
Might be an an old thread, but it's still valid.

For almost everything I shoot, when working up loads to find the best accuracy, I generally start in the lands.010" or so.

Once I find where I want to be with the powder, I'll move to a bullet seating test, starting with the original OAL, then there's only one way to go.

Then I'll go 010" off, and then what ever incremental you want to play with, whether it's .010, .020, etc.
Click to expand...

Same. It's tuning 101.

- DAA
 
Espo said:
Going to do the full load development and use the H4350 cuz I’m using it for coyotes
Click to expand...
If the H4350 doesn't produce joy, maybe try Win StaBall 6.5. According to Hodgdon data with a 50 gr 43grs is tops vs the H4350 at 42.0grs with about 500 fps faster in the max load. With a 55gr StaBall 6.5 at 42.5grs is almost 400 fps faster than the max H4350 @ 39.0grs.

Of course that is just looking at velocity not accuracy, and like @Kwarw1 stated H380 might be your ticket to success, while not producing the blistering speeds that H4350 /Win StaBall 6.5 demonstrates, could be more accurate and easier on the barrel itself.

I differ from Alf's and DAA 0.010" off contact to the throat I start at 0.020" not that their method is inferior or mine is better. It's just as good a method. I know some whom go 0.003" off contact and work from there, and it works although I would advise at least 10 thou.
 
I was being pha-sheez-us. From what I read over 30 years ago Mr. Hodgen made H380 for the 22-250 specifically 38.0 grains, thus the name.
In addition back then I tested all kinds of powders and H380 kept winning. I also tested different powder charges, well guess which one won the accuracy test. Yep 38.0 grains. So that's my results that shoots bug holes in my Savage rifles. YMMV but I doubt it.
 
Thanks guys. Just what I was looking for and some extra.
Ain’t bought powder yet so will find the H380 and if the 4350 wins the medal I have 2 young guys who have the gun and empties cases saved but don’t reload ( yet ) The comp die set should be here Friday . I topped it with a Thor 5 last year to keep the coyotes sleeping in long lasting bliss. Just again ass gun to fire. Comes in at 18# with the add ons. Sits on round bails nicely .
Tx , Espo
 
Really old school here, I black a bullet, and seat it deep enough that the lands don't mark the bullet, it usually works pretty good for me. I then record the depth in my load data so I don't have to do it again.
 
If you really want to get down in the weeds on finding your lands, click the link & scroll down to "finding your lands":

Videos | wheeleraccuracy

www.wheeleraccuracy.com www.wheeleraccuracy.com

Otherwise, I smoke a bullet with a Bic lighter. A square mark on the bullet is somewhere around .020" in the lands, dependent of course on the number of lands & their profile. I always use Wilson inline bullet seaters, so I make a dummy round & write what the stem length is on the round with a Sharpie for reference.

Again, this is for reference for that lot number of bullets, in your chamber, that you can reliably change seating depth changes in the future.

PQBKLPp.jpg
 
RSG223 said:
Same with H322 and 60gr Vmax in the 223!

I was just out at the range yesterday messing with that load and the best performance came from .020" JG
Click to expand...
I thought about this after my last post. If I only had 3 powders for 224 bullets in 223 and 22-250 they would be: H322, H335 and H380. I don't shoot heavy for caliber though. If I did I would Lean towards Varget.
 
Espo said:
In or off lands ?
Click to expand...
load it to book length, don't worry about on or off the lands YET. Refer to post #9 "tuning 101"
Find the powder and charge weight that shoots the best group FIRST. In the mean time while your getting that squared away read up on precision reloading skills and "tuning a load".
I'm not trying to be rude but until you find the load that shoots best messing with the O.A.L. (off/on the lands) is a waste of time and materials/money. And you are adding another variable to the equation!
For example open any box of factory ammo, is it different lengths? NO. Does some brands/types of it shoot better in your gun? YES. Why? powder charge bullet type/design/weight,speed,etc.

Once you read up on all this stuff you'll find:

1) Nobody can Give you the perfect load for Your gun over the internet. It would be like fixing a car over the phone.
2) The O.A.L. that puts the bullet X amount in or out of the lands is the very Last step to fine tune a load. That's why I say book length as a BASELINE so all the test are the same OAL.
3) When you find the Happy combo that shoots best Then start messing with the OAL You may be surprised with the results. Some bullets like a big jump, others not, some it seems to have little effect.
4) At some point you will call it good or good enough cause you will either run out of patience,time or money.

Good luck to you.
 
Thank you I agree. I’ve repaired for 35 years. Worked up several loads for my two fav.guns doing exactly what you described .
I just acquired this 22:250. and I’m looking for specific advice about that caliber. I came here to get the good advice you offer. And I got some great feedback for powders , primers and was just trying to see what everyone says about where to start the col. These little gems have been around for a long time and finding out what everyone else has found helps much . So please tell me your opinion on starting point for col ? Guys are saying start in and others out . Ive always started kissing the lands and backing out .001… Every caliber is a little different where best to start. The v max has a shorter radius than the modern match shaped bullets. I’m not any expert but going one way from a starting point in col after ladder groups starting at .5g and narrowing it down to .1 or .2 after finding the widest node is what I always do ! So in your experience with 22:250 load dev is the best starting point backing off the .005 or .010 from kiss or start .010 in ??? I will gladly us the starting point you have used with this caliber ! As I just have a comp die and don’t even know is 22:250 have neck bushing dies available .
Thanks ,
Great to get to know you all !
 
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