Does encoding sounds make them distorted?

People hate Bill??? Are you serious?????

Use what you will Tim, I have zero problem but your comments state otherwise on other brands of E callers. That is why we all have choices and competition is a good thing not a bad thing. It will make things better for the consumer and has done just that in the calling industry. You really should listen to the newer FP's though, they are impressive.
 
Quote:You really should listen to the newer FP's though, they are impressive.

You are in S.D. right?? If so come over to my area and we can hunt and use youre F-P..
 
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Digitizing a sound does "distort" it, since instead of a smooth wavform, you turn it into a series of numbers that represent the level at certain points in time (the sampling rate tells you how often the signal is converted. At 22kHz sampling rate, they take the measurement every .000045 seconds)
The accuracy is dependent on the resolution, or number of steps you store the data in. 8 bit converts the sound into 256 levels, while 24 bit uses 8.4 million levels, but requires more memory. Then they store the series of numbers. That's the A/D (Analog-to-Digital) conversion process.
Now playing it back, you need a circuit that takes the jagged levels and smooths them into something that looks like the original waveform. That's the D/A (Digital-to-Analog) conversion process. If you've got decent quality, modern hardware it shouldn't have enough change from the original to be noticable. Listen to a cassette tape compared to your CD player and tell me which one is better. Records and tapes have way bigger problems reproducing audio than a good digital system, even with the conversion process factored in.

Here's an article on it:

Audio A/D conversion

This is the important part:

Maximum quantitizing error from A/D conversion
8 bit = .78%
16 bit= .003%
20 bit= .00019%
24 bit= .000012%

Even a 16 bit system should sound just fine for something like a predator call, assuming it's sampled fast enough, unless they're Bach fans.
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Thanks so much EL.

I notice the new FP turkey sounds are no where as good as their old ones in 16 bit.

I can see why now not that big of a difference.

Thanks so much everyone for the informative posts.

Hammer
 
Originally Posted By: Evil_LurkerDigitizing a sound does "distort" it, since instead of a smooth wavform, you turn it into a series of numbers that represent the level at certain points in time (the sampling rate tells you how often the signal is converted. At 22kHz sampling rate, they take the measurement every .000045 seconds)
The accuracy is dependent on the resolution, or number of steps you store the data in. 8 bit converts the sound into 256 levels, while 24 bit uses 8.4 million levels, but requires more memory. Then they store the series of numbers. That's the A/D (Analog-to-Digital) conversion process.
Now playing it back, you need a circuit that takes the jagged levels and smooths them into something that looks like the original waveform. That's the D/A (Digital-to-Analog) conversion process. If you've got decent quality, modern hardware it shouldn't have enough change from the original to be noticable. Listen to a cassette tape compared to your CD player and tell me which one is better. Records and tapes have way bigger problems reproducing audio than a good digital system, even with the conversion process factored in.

Here's an article on it:

Audio A/D conversion

This is the important part:

Maximum quantitizing error from A/D conversion
8 bit = .78%
16 bit= .003%
20 bit= .00019%
24 bit= .000012%

Even a 16 bit system should sound just fine for something like a predator call, assuming it's sampled fast enough, unless they're Bach fans.
grin.gif


Thanks Evil...Great post!
 
Evil Lurker,
Thanks for the information, good stuff. Digitizing from analog to digital though is a different beast than simply encoding an already digital file, correct? If say, WT's or FoxPro's files are already stored in a digital file, the encoding does not diminish that digital file, simply changes its file type, right?
 
Right, once you have the sound covnverted into a digital format, you can play it back through JUST the D/A section. That's all an mp3 player or CD has inside (unless you bought one that also records, but that's not a common option).
But at some point, it had to be converted to digital, and I was just explaining that it also adds distortion during that step.
But if you buy a memory stick or something similar with sounds already on it, the A/D step has already been done for you.
Converting between file types shouldn't change the sound, unless they reduce the quality to match a D/A with less capability.

So, if you convert 24 bit 48kHz files to play through 16 bit 22kHz D/A hardware (and it can easily be done), THEN you'll degrade the sound.

See? There are many possibilities and you need to know the hardware specs to figure out what the final quality will be.

Converting to a different format won't ever make it sound BETTER than the original, though.
 
Quote:Hammer it seems MR martz says your WT sounds have never been encoded direct from him on another site.

Ask him how they got into a digital format. Were they produced by a synthesizer and recorded directly to memory?

Because if they are based on actual animal sounds, somewhere along the line the analog sound pressure waves entering a microphone had to be processed through an A/D converter.
 
Quote:he says he had them as analog for many years then converted to digital so he wouldn't erode the taped format they where on.

Okay, that's logical. Now he's got four times they were distorted.
1) When recorded as analog
2) When played back as analog
3) When digitized by the A/D process
4) When converted back to analog by the D/A process

But using high-quality equipment, it may not result in enough error to hear.

Every time you play a tape, it results in some degradation of the tape. It stretches and erodes the surface layer that holds the magnetic charges which hold the sound information. Digital data doesn't do that, you can play it back a million times and it's always the same.

Quote: it seems MR martz says your WT sounds have never been encoded direct from him on another site.

I think I misunderstood that statement to mean he stated his sounds were never in analog format.
But re-reading it, maybe he's saying you are not using a digital file that he provides, but a copy of a copy.
It's fairly confusing at this point, to tell you the truth.
grin.gif


There's a lot more involved in what the caller "sounds" like than the digital file quality. It needs to be converted, amplified and fed to a speaker.

World's best file won't sound good if you're using an amp with lots of distortion and feeding it to a cheap speaker. It all has to be a balanced system, and unless you're willing to spend $500+ and have a huge package, compromises need to be made.
You could build a caller the size of a grand piano for a few thousand dollars that sounds exactly like the animal at ear-splitting volume, but nobody would buy it.
So these guys make intelligent decisions and make the best product that they can still make a profit selling.
It's a tough market.
 
Quote:Also if you load sounds into a f-p would'nt you have to encode them also?? Just asking..


They would have to be in a format that the hardware "recognizes". That doesn't mean they would sound any different, just that the hardware has to have a certain format to work with.
 
i record mine into a mp3 player,i run a patch cable from the call into the mp3 player,it has built in record,and is a mp3 once it is recorded.

i get just as good a sound on my homemade mp3 unit as i get off my bought call.

as the mp3 records in 24 bit and has high sampling rate.

my mp3 with the built in record,that goes through a patch cable,no white noise is a rca runs about 59 dollars...

as long as your call has a speaker out you can record the sounds to it.

but dont sell them or give them away.

 
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Originally Posted By: TA17rem Quote:Quote:Hammer it seems MR martz says your WT sounds have never been encoded

I don't have a F-P but from what i've read dose'nt F-P have there sounds encoded to prevent theft. Also if you load sounds into a f-p would'nt you have to encode them also?? Just asking..


as he said the newer foxpros will play,fxp....mp3...and..wave.
 
Originally Posted By: TA17rem Quote:Quote:Hammer it seems MR martz says your WT sounds have never been encoded

I don't have a F-P but from what i've read dose'nt F-P have there sounds encoded to prevent theft. Also if you load sounds into a f-p would'nt you have to encode them also?? Just asking..

I just copied them on to my puter then loaded them on my FP with no trouble at all.

Hammer
 
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