Don't like how I hunt, huh?

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Just dont hate on high fences and support them. Tell me how they hurt hunting?



It has been pointed out NUMEROUS times so I have to rationalize that you can't read and comprehend or the tears in your eyes from all the squealing has blurred your vision!!:D /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Either way I am not explaining it again as it is just a waste of time; kinda like answering the little annoying kid who keeps asking 'why' over and over and over even though there is no hope of ever actually comprehending why!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

9. "We a sportsmen/hunters have already lost so much that our Great grand fathers, grand fathers and Fathers had do you really what to loose more by not supporting each other?"

In reference to #9 -Now we are getting somewhere. I hate the very idea of high fence shooting pens in a large part becasue of how it is f-ing up our hunting heritage. Greedy bastards have decided to commercialize one of the greatest activities afforded to us as Americans. People like you have taken the hunt out of hunting. You have made it all about the kill and have deprived your clients of the experince that makes hunting so great. You can say come to my game farm and enjoy all of the thrills of hunting with out having to hunt.

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gwh,
I'm sure you are a great person. I'm sure that me and you could hang out and have a great time and we probably share many ideas and interests. However, the only thing we share on this issue is we both have a vested interest in regards to high fence canned hunts. You have a financial interest in maintaining and promoting a game farm. I have an interest in seeing them all burned to the ground and the mutant genetically enhanced critters destroyed. I have an even larger interest in protecting what I believe hunting to be and in a large part what defines me as a person.

You have filled a niche in this fast food mentality that we all live in. You could borrow Burger Kings slogan "Have it your way" -skip the hunt and get right to the killing.

It's not so much an ethical dilemna for me as it is a self preservation issue. I love hunting. I hate the degradation and de-evolution of it just so you and others like you can make a buck. Can't you take up tennis or golf and find a way to ruin that. Just leave hunting alone please.



Well said!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Alright; I am outta here for tonight. It has been fun but I have to get up and actually go HUNT for a turkey in the morning. If I am unlucky maybe I will stop by the store and buy a butterball. If I do I will make sure to take some pictures of the butterball so I can post them up here and the fence guys can all tell me what a great job I did 'hunting' it!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Wow!!!! Your sure did read into my post what you wanted. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

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No. I have guided several seasons.




So you go out and do the scouting for your laze clients that pay you thousands of dollars so they can shoot a trophy that you saw the day before and marked on you GPS. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

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This question is retarded but I'll do my best. If there are more gates I usually open them, drive through and then close them. If there were 6 more and I needed to go through all of them to get where I was going I would open all 6 of them and drive through them. ?????




If you say so. The point of the question was to say, do you walk in to hunt or drive your truck to within 100yrds get out take a short walk in and hunt. I will take your answer to say yes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Greedy bastards have decided to commercialize one of the greatest activities afforded to us as Americans.




Yes they are, how much do you charge your clients to kill elk . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

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gwh,
I'm sure you are a great person.




I am thank you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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I'm sure that me and you could hang out and have a great time and we probably share many ideas and interests.




We probably could and yes we do I love to hunt and fish.
If you dont hate me after this reply /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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However, the only thing we share on this issue is we both have a vested interest in regards to high fence canned hunts. You have a financial interest in maintaining and promoting a game farm. I have an interest in seeing them all burned to the ground and the mutant genetically enhanced critters destroyed. I have an even larger interest in protecting what I believe hunting to be and in a large part what defines me as a person.




Wow you could not be more wrong. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Of the two of us the only one that has a vested interest is you (outfitter/guide) No money here I am a Colorado fare chase no guild, no fence, no horse, atv mule. I walk in every morning 3 mile to get to my spot, do my own scouting and carry my elk/deer out with help of course. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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It's not so much an ethical dilemna for me as it is a self preservation issue.
I love hunting. I hate the degradation and de-evolution of it just so you and others like you can make a buck.




You are the only one of the two of us making money off of killing animals. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

The point of my questions was to say we do things that other do not but should we make it illegal just because we do not do it or like it. No!
 
Aww and me and you were doing so well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif I was supporting your Non hunting view of game farms. Now I have to tell you that you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to me and what I stand for. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif By the way I hope to killed my Turkey Sunday. That is if I can find my way off the ranch I wish I owned and the free range animals that live on it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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how much do you charge your clients to kill elk .



I was a guide for an outfitter. I can't remember what his pricing was.

I'm sure it will please you to hear that I also have issues with the outfitting industry. However, the issues I have with outfitting don't even touch on how I feel about high fence hunting.

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I am a Colorado fare chase no guild, no fence, no horse, atv mule



My apologies. I misread one of the previous posts and thought you were a shooting pen owner.

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So you go out and do the scouting for your laze clients that pay you thousands of dollars so they can shoot a trophy that you saw the day before and marked on you GPS



Basically. That is if the laze clients could even hit the broad side of a barn.

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The point of the question was to say, do you walk in to hunt or drive your truck to within 100yrds get out take a short walk in and hunt. I will take your answer to say yes.



Take my answer to mean whatever you would like it to mean. It doesn't contribute to my arguement that game farms hurt hunting by disenfranchising potential hunters of a real hunting experience. Nor does that question or my answer do anything to buoy up your arguement that penned animal shooting doesn't degradate the very definition of hunting.

Game farms by their very nature take the pursuit away from hunting. The animals being "hunted"/shot are confined to one location. The shooter knows they are there and that they cannot escape. There is no hunting because there is no pursuit just shooting.
 
Well high fences are here to stay and you can support our sport or you can join the anti's and destroy it. High fences here in Texas are legal and I really dont think they are going anywhere so you "HUNTERS" make the call on all of our futures. Support or destroy.
 
gwh, I'm going to point out errors to your post.
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No. I have guided several seasons.



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So you go out and do the scouting for your laze clients that pay you thousands of dollars so they can shoot a trophy that you saw the day before and marked on you GPS.



Guides don't make thousands of dollars on hunts, they make hundreds. The Outfitter makes the money. Guides don't get paid when a client shoots a trophy,( your misconception is that because game farms are 100% that real hunting is too.) They get paid to take people hunting without guarantees.


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Greedy bastards have decided to commercialize one of the greatest activities afforded to us as Americans.



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Yes they are, how much do you charge your clients to kill elk .



Again a guide doesn't charge for clients killing elk, game farm outfitters do.

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However, the only thing we share on this issue is we both have a vested interest in regards to high fence canned hunts. You have a financial interest in maintaining and promoting a game farm. I have an interest in seeing them all burned to the ground and the mutant genetically enhanced critters destroyed. I have an even larger interest in protecting what I believe hunting to be and in a large part what defines me as a person.



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Wow you could not be more wrong.
Of the two of us the only one that has a vested interest is you (outfitter/guide) No money here I am a Colorado fare chase no guild, no fence, no horse, atv mule. I walk in every morning 3 mile to get to my spot, do my own scouting and carry my elk/deer out with help of course.




You need to think long and hard then about which side of the fence your on! Did you like your wild elk being stole by a game farmer? How about the migration corridor that was fenced off in Colorado.

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The point of my questions was to say we do things that other do not but should we make it illegal just because we do not do it or like it. No!



You have totally missed the whole conversation haven't you! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

If you love to hunt wild free ranging animals, then game farms are the biggest threat to your hobby, pastime, passion, whatever hunting means to you. If you lived in Texas, or Florida where wild elk herds didn't exist then it wouldn't be a threat. In Colorado it is.. Colorado should join the progressive states that have banned the hunting of penned animals. Wyoming, Washington, and Montana, are a few.
 
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Butcher45, I never new of either of these guys until you posted the piece. I read a their articles, I never got that they were anti hunters at all,



I said that the guy was anti-NRA, and he is. Did you not read his article on the NRA?

You need to read the Oregon Cougar article again, too. Forget anything you read in it about the cougars themselves, and see what light the author puts on varmint/predator hunters. You missed it the first time if you don't think they sound anti- varmint/predator hunter.



George Wuerthner's article was about Oregon's legislature, opening the door so the state can shoot 1/3 of the lions in the state. Butcher45 would you like to see the state manage game animals this way?



You missed the whole point. Again.
No I wouldn't. I also wouldn't have helped cause their over-population by banning hunting them with hounds, either. I have a cougar story for you later if you want to know why I think they are over-populated, at least in the area I lived.
However, hunting cougars was not the point of my posting those links. I posted it because if you read the article (all the articles) you find out where they stand on other things.
In the Oregon Cougar article he insinuates that every member of this board is a "cretin" along with guys that hunt with hounds in this quote from that article.

"Most people are outraged by the thought of some cretin, whom I will not glorify with the term hunter, following a pack of radio collared hounds to a treed cat, and then blasting the cougar from its perch. The killing of animals like cougars, wolves, prairie dogs, and other animals that are not providing meat on the table is seen as bloodthirty and unnecessary by a growing majority of Americans"



So it seems your comprehension to these articles is poor. I'll ask you what this had to do with the fact that game farms suck. I don't have to like them and won't. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif




It wasn't ever about game farms to begin with, and certainly not about telling you what to like. It's page ten, 4100fps, and you still haven't noticed that. Everyone else understood and identified with the post until you started in on game farms, which was a small part of a much larger story. It was even explained to you by another member of this forum how and why you missed the point right after your initial post. It is you that is having comprehension problems 4100fps.
Then Nonya appeared out of nowhere with more of his old gibberish from months ago (another guy that just doesn't get it), claiming that I am a "big supporter of canned hunts with airguns", when in fact I have been on exactly one fenced hog hunt in which I didn't even bring home a hog. Some canned hunt, huh?
I am a supporter of hunting with airguns, and %95 of my hunting is on public Oregon land. Most all of my hunting efforts this winter will be focussed on taking a coyote here in Oregon with my .45 airgun. I am hoping to develope a fur-friendly load by then.
Nonya blindly hates the idea of using airguns for hunting bigger game as much as he hates fenced hunts, and in this blindness he confuses the two and out comes the jibberish.
My post isn't about game farms it is about hunters standing together against the HSUS and PETA. I posted those articles to show info included in those articles on where the authors stand on different issues.
If you really read those articles you SHOULD see that those guys aren't with us. I was curious if they were in your crowd.
 
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Game farms by their very nature take the pursuit away from hunting. The animals being "hunted"/shot are confined to one location. The shooter knows they are there and that they cannot escape. There is no hunting because there is no pursuit just shooting.




So you admit it is hunting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (JOKE)

I know very little about high fence game farms as I do not hunt them or have never looked into hunting/shooting on one.
I am just not going to say they should be outlawed because I do not like them. To each there own. If game farms give hunters a bad name that sucks but the ANTI's will not stop there and that is why I can not say get rid of them.
I can and have said regulate the he!! out of them though.
Maybe the issues raised by you and the others could be turned into a positive for all of us. Charge the game farm 2000 per animal shoot and mandate they have double 10 foot fences then use the money to support our wild herds and hunters and catch more poachers. The ANTI's will always hate us Game farm or not.
 
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Well high fences are here to stay and you can support our sport or you can join the anti's and destroy it. ... Support or destroy.



I'm not buying into this cause and effect argument.

This is like a child molester asking an orphanage volunteer to support his child rape.

"We both love children so you need to support my way of loving children. If you don't then soon no one will be able to love children."

Because I love my kids I can't support the raping of children. Likewise, because I love to hunt I can't support the rape of hunting by joining sides with the real threat to hunting.
 
Butcher45, it is pointless. These people never read the original post and they see the words high fence and they all get bent out of shape. I understand you original post and believe thats what is happening to our HUNTERS today. Joe believe "his way" is the only way anyone should hunt and thats that. It's not the only way. So watch out for Bob because there is alot of Bob's out there. If you read the origianl post I hope you would understand.
 
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Well high fences are here to stay and you can support our sport or you can join the anti's and destroy it. ... Support or destroy.



I'm not buying into this cause and effect argument.

This is like a child molester asking an orphanage volunteer to support his child rape.

"We both love children so you need to support my way of loving children. If you don't then soon no one will be able to love children."

Because I love my kids I can't support the raping of children. Likewise, because I love to hunt I can't support the rape of hunting by joining sides with the real threat to hunting.




UNBELIEVABLE!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
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Well high fences are here to stay and you can support our sport or you can join the anti's and destroy it. ... Support or destroy.



I'm not buying into this cause and effect argument.

This is like a child molester asking an orphanage volunteer to support his child rape.

"We both love children so you need to support my way of loving children. If you don't then soon no one will be able to love children."

Because I love my kids I can't support the raping of children. Likewise, because I love to hunt I can't support the rape of hunting by joining sides with the real threat to hunting.



DUMBA$$, are high fences legal? YES! Is molesting achild? NO! Get real
 
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UNBELIEVABLE!!!!



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DUMBA$$, are high fences legal? YES! Is molesting achild? NO! Get real



Your right. Bad analogy.

I was going for the extreme to make a point. Not trying to compare High fence hunters to child molesters. My bad. It's late and I need to just call it a night.

Good night
 
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My point was made outfitting is hurting our sport also. Quote:

You need to think long and hard then about which side of the fence your on! Did you like your wild elk being stole by a game farmer? How about the migration corridor that was fenced off in Colorado.



The Law delt with them.

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You have totally missed the whole conversation haven't you!

If you love to hunt wild free ranging animals, then game farms are the biggest threat to your hobby, pastime, passion, whatever hunting means to you. If you lived in Texas, or Florida where wild elk herds didn't exist then it wouldn't be a threat. In Colorado it is.. Colorado should join the progressive states that have banned the hunting of penned animals. Wyoming, Washington, and Montana, are a few.




Okay. I am confused. What is your possession on game farms are they okay just not in states were the animals on them occur naturally or no game farms?

You are from Montana, I am from Colorado. We do not need game farms for Elk, Deer, Antelope, Bear, etc. But do we do away with them in Texas, Florida because we have natural herds. What threat does an Elk in Texas have on wild elk in Montana? If some one wants to take the easy way out as some have said who cares we still can hunt and be prod of what we have accomplished.
 
Very Interesting how guys like GWH and Bucther45 have to resort to labelling guys as PETA or other ARA when they lack the knowledge and perhaps experience to make an intelligent arguement to counter their views /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif... This is even more funny / sad when you consider that these are the guys posting links to said ARA sites! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

How old are you GWH? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Butcher45 you look about 22 -- not alot of year nor experience under your belt yet! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
From reading this long thread, I have only seen a couple of guys that really have hunted behind high fences and the hunt was not killing in a pen. Those who have not been to a reserve or hunted there seem to have an idea of the hunt being in a pen and how it all takes place.
One of our deer/elk reserve owners in Iowa moved his operation to a new place. He fenced it off and put his herd of elk in it (70+ head) . Then the DNR comes and walks your property (his is over 600 acres) and counts all the whitetail deer inside and you have to pay the state for them as they are property of the state. Well, FOUR men walked his PEN three times, on three different days, to make their deer count and not once saw one of his elk.......sound like a pen to you guys that have never set foot on a reserve????? WE have rules on size ,and cover for hunting reserves. At least 80 % cover and open areas must be dispersed and not in one plot. NO one chases the animals to you and you don't shoot animals standing in a fence corner....where do you get you ideas anyway....how long would you have a reserve if that is all you offered to your clients?????? Check online hunting reserves and see what is there and how it is done and the range of experiences offered. Then go see one and then make a educated opinion of reserves.....SM
 
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