handishooter
New member
Yep,im a cheater!Read my post ''coyotes are a comin''You al will see.(animal rights s&&^o%B&%#h*&)
e-callers and cheating
- Thread starter The Brothers B
- Start date
Jay Nistetter
New member
Let me type this out real slow so everybody can understand.
The implication here is not about e-callers. It's about real animal sounds being broadcast over speakers versus hand call imitations.
If I have a hunting partner who is a fairly decent hand caller I usually set him out in front of me just like I would an e-caller. He essentially BECOMES the e-caller.
What this does it allows the perfectly acceptable "sniper" to take advantage of his "e-calling" abilities.
I use e-callers so I can take film and shots easier because I cannot blow, shoot and film all by myself.
Are their situations that justify utilizing both? (not to be misconstrued to mean at the same time) Yes there are.
Some days an e-caller produces nothing while a hand call proves to be dyn-o-mite. The other way around is also true and then there are some days when nothing works.
Camo, boots and even guns aren't necessary to be a successful caller. Gerry Blair proved that by wearing a Santa Clause suit. Khaki shirts, Stetsons and big shiney belt buckles are what the pioneers who founded this sport wore.
Success isn't measured by blood either. The fact that you called something in determines your success. Calling something in and getting it to do what you want is Secondary and the mark of a skilled whachamacallit.
Killing is third, fourth or fifth on the list unless you just want to kill something. If that's the case, all you need to do is drive around long enough until you spot a "freebe" and shoot it.
Cheating? Would my sound on an e-caller be cheating? Cheating is finding a roadkill and saying you shot it.
The implication here is not about e-callers. It's about real animal sounds being broadcast over speakers versus hand call imitations.
If I have a hunting partner who is a fairly decent hand caller I usually set him out in front of me just like I would an e-caller. He essentially BECOMES the e-caller.
What this does it allows the perfectly acceptable "sniper" to take advantage of his "e-calling" abilities.
I use e-callers so I can take film and shots easier because I cannot blow, shoot and film all by myself.
Are their situations that justify utilizing both? (not to be misconstrued to mean at the same time) Yes there are.
Some days an e-caller produces nothing while a hand call proves to be dyn-o-mite. The other way around is also true and then there are some days when nothing works.
Camo, boots and even guns aren't necessary to be a successful caller. Gerry Blair proved that by wearing a Santa Clause suit. Khaki shirts, Stetsons and big shiney belt buckles are what the pioneers who founded this sport wore.
Success isn't measured by blood either. The fact that you called something in determines your success. Calling something in and getting it to do what you want is Secondary and the mark of a skilled whachamacallit.
Killing is third, fourth or fifth on the list unless you just want to kill something. If that's the case, all you need to do is drive around long enough until you spot a "freebe" and shoot it.
Cheating? Would my sound on an e-caller be cheating? Cheating is finding a roadkill and saying you shot it.
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REM223PA
New member
Your 1000 percent right on every thing.
I may have sad what I sad to try and get the real
Thing that was trying to be sad by the topic poster .
I really still think it was and is still is trying to be made into a them and use issue that was may and still is my take on the post.
I have nothing but respect for the predator animal and my time in the field.
So I will apologize for any thing out of order I sad here .
But still here me they are all just tools for being successful no more no less.
And we should as a group never put down any legal way of hunting.
And always say what you mean!
Even if I can’t communicate by writing on this damn computer.
I may have sad what I sad to try and get the real
Thing that was trying to be sad by the topic poster .
I really still think it was and is still is trying to be made into a them and use issue that was may and still is my take on the post.
I have nothing but respect for the predator animal and my time in the field.
So I will apologize for any thing out of order I sad here .
But still here me they are all just tools for being successful no more no less.
And we should as a group never put down any legal way of hunting.
And always say what you mean!
Even if I can’t communicate by writing on this damn computer.
The Brothers B
New member
To all members,
I hope REM223 was the only member who thought I was baiting them. My intent was to start a spirited discussion about hunting techniques. Their have been some excellent points made about the usefulness of e-callers. Thank you for your excellent points Deathfromabove, stiff neck, dogleg, rim runner.
Again, I personally don't approve of e-callers but feel no ill will against those who do. If you’re out hunting, I am happy for you. I might even learn something from you.
REM223PA, No I don't think you are a cheater. And yes I looked at your photos. Wow, you are a great hunter. Unfortunately, the amount of animals you kill doesn't give your opinion any more weight than mine. Are you insecure about using an e-caller?
Thanks All. And apologies to all offended.
A special thanks to Hogboy44. I appreciated your points with regards to this issue and your opinions on predator videos.
I hope REM223 was the only member who thought I was baiting them. My intent was to start a spirited discussion about hunting techniques. Their have been some excellent points made about the usefulness of e-callers. Thank you for your excellent points Deathfromabove, stiff neck, dogleg, rim runner.
Again, I personally don't approve of e-callers but feel no ill will against those who do. If you’re out hunting, I am happy for you. I might even learn something from you.
REM223PA, No I don't think you are a cheater. And yes I looked at your photos. Wow, you are a great hunter. Unfortunately, the amount of animals you kill doesn't give your opinion any more weight than mine. Are you insecure about using an e-caller?
Thanks All. And apologies to all offended.
A special thanks to Hogboy44. I appreciated your points with regards to this issue and your opinions on predator videos.
Rusty Holt
New member
It's all relative. Would the Paleoindians that roamed this continent 10,000 years ago and used the atlatl considered those that developed the bow and arrow some 2,000 years ago as "cheaters"? How about the Comanches that later became master horseman.....where they considered "cheaters" by the other tribes that hunted on foot?
We are all "cheaters" the way it is defined in the first post....but God made us to rule over all of the other living things on the earth, and that's just the way it is. We are superior intellectually, so in a way it is "cheating" just to kill something that isn't of equal intellect. I personally don't view any of it as cheating, though. Do what you enjoy and don't be affected by the judgement of others. (As long as you stay within the bounds of the law)
Take care and God Bless,
Rusty
We are all "cheaters" the way it is defined in the first post....but God made us to rule over all of the other living things on the earth, and that's just the way it is. We are superior intellectually, so in a way it is "cheating" just to kill something that isn't of equal intellect. I personally don't view any of it as cheating, though. Do what you enjoy and don't be affected by the judgement of others. (As long as you stay within the bounds of the law)
Take care and God Bless,
Rusty
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handishooter
New member
Brother,If your not stirrin shi*.Why you keep pokin at Rem223?Is he not in shotgun range yet?Just think ,if you wasnt to ethical to the non cheatin cause you could of scoped him by now.
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Cal Taylor
Sponsor
Well, Everybody has their own ideas of what they want and how they want to do it, but it's hard to define it as "cheating". As an example, I took up bowhunting for big game a few years ago. A new challenge, and I enjoy it and have taken some nice animals. But I don't consider rifle hunters to be "cheating"? But even among bowhunters there are differences. Maybe the guys that shoot traditional consider the compound guys to be "cheating" but I don't really think so. Everyone has to define where they find their own personal challenges. I use my FoxPro alot, but I still use hand calls along with it, and I'm pretty good with a handcall and got along for years with no e-caller, but now that I have it, I use it. If it blew up tommorrow I could still go kill a coyote and I wouldn't sweat it being gone for a while, but I would get another one eventually because I can do some things with it that I can't do with a handcall. As for the challenge being in the calling as Jay stated, it is one of the few times I have to disagree with him. As far as I'm concerned alot of guys can toot a call of either kind and get a coyote in sight. But alot less guys can handle them once they get there. They don't know when to shoot, or how to shoot, or they are in the wrong place and get busted. I hear from quite a few guys that say they called in 7 or 8 but only killed one. That tells me they are doing something wrong and I personally wouldn't consider those kinds of numbers as being successful. To me, a successful callers numbers should be that he called in 7 or 8 and only had one get away.
REM223PA
New member
the photos were to show there are no e- calers in them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
and you will not find one either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
i pride my self as a hand caller .
but a e-caller is a great tool with it purpose in the feild.
good day and good hunting
and you will not find one either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
i pride my self as a hand caller .
but a e-caller is a great tool with it purpose in the feild.
good day and good hunting
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Jay Nistetter
New member
Cal, I agree with you and can see where you disagreed with me. It is a matter of what your goal is. If it is just to call in a coyote, I'm right. If your goal is two-fold to call and kill, then you are correct in everything you stated. I 100% agree that oh so many don't know what to do after the coyote arrives. That was my goal (and challenge) in making the video I did.
Q. You crack me up. The answer to your question is real simple but it would take 3 or 4 hours for me to type and spell check it. In a nutshell, a left-handed e-caller has no problem in finding the volume control or stop button on an e-caller whereas the more excitable right-handed person tends to panic under pressure and has to look down taking his eyes off the oncoming furball. The reason a handcaller kills more coyotes is because, even for the right handed caller, his hand is up where he can see it so he knows what it's doing at all times, not to mention that there are a hundred times more hand callers than there are e-callers. I just pulled that number outta of the air.
Q. You crack me up. The answer to your question is real simple but it would take 3 or 4 hours for me to type and spell check it. In a nutshell, a left-handed e-caller has no problem in finding the volume control or stop button on an e-caller whereas the more excitable right-handed person tends to panic under pressure and has to look down taking his eyes off the oncoming furball. The reason a handcaller kills more coyotes is because, even for the right handed caller, his hand is up where he can see it so he knows what it's doing at all times, not to mention that there are a hundred times more hand callers than there are e-callers. I just pulled that number outta of the air.
Several good points, I wish to share another,(or two) Cheating is the hunter who pursues game in violation of game laws and regulations. Case in point: My partner and I secured permission to hunt a nice 600 acre farm in our area, never yote hunted(legally). We had some close calls on taking yotes and left very happy with our encounters of the yote kind. Last saturday farmer looks out his back window and sees a trespasser walking up his two track with yote in hand. A confrontation ensued but the poacher didnt care and entered a car and left with the yote.....Thats a cheater!
I have e-callers and find them very useful. I too have some dandy hand calls and am the proud owner of a beautiful Cronk howler. I sometimes feel attacked on this board even in the e-call threads about using the "E". I don't feel ashamed for using the ecaller because there are some calls I just cant master, I openly admit it.
Even with my handcalls I don't feel like I'm cheating because I can tap an animal 400 yards with my rifle which has a nice 6.5x20 leupold or the lightforce 170 which enables me to hunt in the night.
I don't feel guity on spending my hard earned money on ecallers and related paraphernalia which puts dinner on the table for the employees who also "turn" these out.
The cheater is the common poacher who takes game from you and me by hunting outside of the constraints where we law-abiding hunters conform.
time for bed, five more hours I'll be sitting on a fresh deer carcass, minus ecaller or handcalls. God Bless.
I have e-callers and find them very useful. I too have some dandy hand calls and am the proud owner of a beautiful Cronk howler. I sometimes feel attacked on this board even in the e-call threads about using the "E". I don't feel ashamed for using the ecaller because there are some calls I just cant master, I openly admit it.
Even with my handcalls I don't feel like I'm cheating because I can tap an animal 400 yards with my rifle which has a nice 6.5x20 leupold or the lightforce 170 which enables me to hunt in the night.
I don't feel guity on spending my hard earned money on ecallers and related paraphernalia which puts dinner on the table for the employees who also "turn" these out.
The cheater is the common poacher who takes game from you and me by hunting outside of the constraints where we law-abiding hunters conform.
time for bed, five more hours I'll be sitting on a fresh deer carcass, minus ecaller or handcalls. God Bless.
Lungbuster
New member
CrossJ + Brad ^ LOL ^ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Lungbuster
New member
Quote:
Maybe the guys that shoot traditional consider the compound guys to be "cheating" but I don't really think so.
Cal, they call us "Bowhunters with training wheels"
Maybe the guys that shoot traditional consider the compound guys to be "cheating" but I don't really think so.
Cal, they call us "Bowhunters with training wheels"
Handloader
New member
The use of an electronic caller is cheating, for example, if one is entered in a varmint calling contest where they are prohibited. Or shooting off of dead piles.
Specific to coyotes, the laws in the state of Arizona gives us great latitude. We have no season, no limits and access to good coyote country is superb. As individuals hunting within the legal guidelines, it is up to us to decide and resolve whether we approach the matter as a sportsman or as an exterminator and, perhaps, to differentiate when one or the other is appropos.
There are those that decry calling during mating and denning periods. Some feel that taking "too many" coyotes during a day's hunt is cheating. Shooting pups is cheating to others. Using live decoys could be "cheating" in someone's eyes. ecallers can be defended or opposed on whimsy. As individuals our code is ours to write. As a group,however, discussions about what constitutes good guidelines will become increasingly germaine.
PredatorSniper37
New member
As to hogboy44's post, I'm an avid bow hunter.
I have taken everything from waterfowl to deer
and predators with my bow. The statement about
not using a bow is absurd. If you are proficient
with a weapon and it is legal why not use it. There are a lot
of animals shot with numerous weapons that
don't die right away. If you are not a proficient
hunter with a weapon or you are unable to get
a good clean shot to kill an animal quickly and
humanely the shot should not be taken.
To do so would be cheating
As for e- callers they are tools,
that hunters use to take game, which doesn't
guarantee success. Overall it takes
a degree of skill, I personally use both
as I use a bow and gun as well.
PredatorSniper37,
I meant no ill will toward bow hunters. I was just telling the truth as I see it. I am an avid bow shooter and so is my son (back yard target shooters), but I don't think I could ever get good enough to consistently kill coyote-sized animals without gut-shooting a lot of them, or worse. Even a perfectly placed arrow (from the bow) is many times not well placed once it reaches the animal, due to animal movement at the sound of arrow release.
I shoot a shotgun and keep my shots to 40 yards or less. I shoot only while the coyotes/bobcats are still or moving very slowly. I will not shoot at a running animal. I can honestly say that I've never shot at either a coyote or bobcat that knew what hit them. They were alive one instant, and dead the next.
I could never do that with a bow. Maybe you can, and if you can, congratulations. You're great. I would end up gut-shooting about half the coyotes I shot at, which I'm not willing to do.
Shooting at the pie-plate-sized vitals of a broadside deer at 30 yards from a treestand is one thing, and I know there are people who can do this very well. But shooting at the baseball-sized-vitals of a coyote/bobcat from the ground while he's stalking right toward me is completely different, and is much more difficult.
I meant no ill will toward bow hunters. I was just telling the truth as I see it. I am an avid bow shooter and so is my son (back yard target shooters), but I don't think I could ever get good enough to consistently kill coyote-sized animals without gut-shooting a lot of them, or worse. Even a perfectly placed arrow (from the bow) is many times not well placed once it reaches the animal, due to animal movement at the sound of arrow release.
I shoot a shotgun and keep my shots to 40 yards or less. I shoot only while the coyotes/bobcats are still or moving very slowly. I will not shoot at a running animal. I can honestly say that I've never shot at either a coyote or bobcat that knew what hit them. They were alive one instant, and dead the next.
I could never do that with a bow. Maybe you can, and if you can, congratulations. You're great. I would end up gut-shooting about half the coyotes I shot at, which I'm not willing to do.
Shooting at the pie-plate-sized vitals of a broadside deer at 30 yards from a treestand is one thing, and I know there are people who can do this very well. But shooting at the baseball-sized-vitals of a coyote/bobcat from the ground while he's stalking right toward me is completely different, and is much more difficult.
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