Fliching Help

Camo

Camo

New member
My son is 15 and he has developed a terrible flinch. He has been shooting his 30-06 with 150's at the range twice a month,and has gotten to the point were he's shooting all over the place. He's 6 foot and 190 pounds, not fat but muscle from competitive weight lifting and wrestling. He's big enough to handle the gun, and he shoots 12 gauge target loads all day no problem when hes a a trap shoot. What can I do to get rid of his flinch? Tell him to shoot the 22 magnum for a while? He tried throwing a towel over his shoulder, and the rifle has a big thick pachmyr pad on it, and neither help.

Thanks for the help
 
There are 2 kinds of flinching. One is a fear of recoil.

One is called target panic. Its actually caused by fear of missing (or not shooting well), and is most common in the archery world, but some riflemen shoot poorly because of target panic also.

My guess is the kid has a case of panic.

It causes unsteady crooshairs, rushing of shots, no follow through, and "jerking" not squeezing the trigger.

It is cureable, but takes time. This will go against the advice of many, but do not step down to a smaller gun.

First, make sure the boy has been through gun safety school, and has a good functional understanding of firearms. Make sure he has some good hearing protection as well.

Go to the range with some dummy rounds, as well as live ones. Load his gun with all dummy rounds except for one live one. Watch as he aims, squeezes , and executed the shot. It will become very clear what he needs to work on.

Another thing to do is have him unload his gun. Aim at a target in a normal fashion, and practice squeezing (not jerking) the trigger. Dry fire practice. After a half hour or so, he will be squeezing off smooth shots. Have him load his gun, and try to recreate that "perfect shot". If he starts flinching again, go back to dry fire practice, many prefer snap caps for this exercise.

Also simply shooting a larger target dot can calm a fella with panic down, as its easier to hit well, and will increase confidence, and confidence is needed to shoot well. As group size returns, slowly decrease target size.

I'm an archery coach part time, and a fella with severe "target panic" can see rapid improvement sometimes just in the understanding he is rushing the shot, "punching" the trigger, and understanding the anxiety he may feel over shooting poorly.

Volumes have been written on target panic, and most pertain to archery. But target panic can cause shooting as you describe with a rifle.

Be patient with the kid, and if you can't help things yourself, hire a coach for a few lessons. A shooting coach may cost a few bucks, but can reward him with a life of hitting what he aimed at. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I've used snapcaps in pistols to see flinching. Have somebody besides the shooter load the mags with randomly placed live/snap rounds. Some people will swear they don't flinch, until you do this to them. Then it is very obvious. Usually everybody has a good laugh too.

Another thing that helps is earplugs and muffs, you'd be suprised how much the sound will cause a flinch. This is probably more true with a pistol, but I could see it happening with a rifle too, specially a short one.

When I was young I got hit in the forehead with a scope on my grandpa's .244. I flinched for a long time after that. Eventually it took lots of shooting .22's to get over it. Shooting from a bench rest helped too.

peace.
unloaded
 
Agree with the above. Lots of dryfiring to practice the fundamentals. And start back on a .22 for a while to get rid of the muscle memory of the flinch.

Remington also makes Managed Recoil loads for the '06. Let him shoot those for a while. They are supposed to be effective for up to (I think) 150 yds. and recoil like a .243. I used them in a .270 for my son to prevent him from developing a flinch.
 
My 13 daughter does flinch occasionaly until I calm her down.

I simply load the rifle for her tell her to sqeeze the trigger. Sometimes I load a live round sometimes I load an empty casing. May not be a book method but it works and it makes her think about it because when she flinches on an empty chanber she and I both can see it easily.

I also do this when we pattern the shotguns in the spring for turkey hunting.
 
Ball & Dummy exercises and a lot of dry firing will go a long way to breaking a bad habit. Size and strength have very little to do with erratic shooting. Most of it is mental. Either anticipating the recoil or fear of missing the target and jerking the trigger.

Back in 1974, I earned my first trip to the National Police Pistol Matches in Mississippi. I was pretty good locally, but when I got on the line at 7 yds all my shots were Xs but I noticed the guy next to me were all in the same hole, at 15 yds, mine were still Xs,creeping to the 10 ring, and his were still in the same hole.
At 25 yds, mine had started creeping into the 10 ring and his were just starting to expand towards the 10 ring from the X. By the time we got to the 60 yard line, Mentally I was blown.... It looked like I have been using a shotgun.

I had coffee with him later and learned he was the previous years Grand Champion and a full-time member of the shooting team for the Alabama Highway Patrol and all he did was shoot 8 hour per day....
He advised me to concentrate on the basics. Sight Alignment, Breath Control, and Trigger Squeeze with a lot of ball & dummy practice. Two years later I walked away with two trophies, and have never forgotten his 'coaching'
 
Loading with dummies behind his back a few times make him aim and squeeze each shot like it was real then put a live round in someplace eventually he will squeeze each shot and forget to flinch but make sure he is wearing good ear protection. A big recoil pad somtimes gives the anticipation of a lot of recoil If he is shooting 12 loads with out a problem explain that the 12 has some what more recoil than the '06 I think it is about 5 or 10% depending on firearm wt. It is a matter of convincing him that the recoil and the flinch from it is all in his mind, if he thinks "this is gonna kick" it will. Go back to a 22 if you think it will help but the mental thing is still there a 22 don't kick every one knows that. So he will not flinch with a 22. You Loading behind his back with live or dummies and not leting him know what he is pulling the trigger on will do more for him that several cases of 22. When I was training rookie cops we got a lot of flinchers on the range telling them that the gun was loaded with 38 SPL instead of 357 MAgs did a lot on some they had the mental attatude that a mag would hurt to shoot.
 
He use to shoot my 308, now im considering putting him back on it if we cant get this sorted out. He missed a deer with my 308 and now he thinks because of its short barrel (20) its inaccurate. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
I would suggest bigger targets, like clay pigeons, and shoot for fun. All you have to do is hit the clay pigeons at 50 yards or so. Make it a competition between the two of you. As you get used to hitting the bigger targets, step down to smaller ones, like hitting a specific letter on a pop can, or something similar. Could be having trouble getting steady looking at the bullseye, and then rushing the trigger at the end of his breath, or something like that. Once you shoot several rounds without any pressure, you can settle down and just shoot at a target, and squeeze the trigger. Its much easier to squeeze, when the cross hairs stay on the target, instead of trying to time everything.

+1 on the hearing protection.!!!!!
 
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+1000 Sleddog. I've fought target panic for years. Recoil doesn't bother me that much, but I'm constantly trying to get the perfect shot off and fight the muscle tension that builds as I squeeze the trigger. Doesn't matter if its a .223, the .270, or that lightweight 300 Win. mag. a buddy has. Doesn't bother me when I'm shooting shotguns, especially when that big ol rooster jumps up cussing me. I double up on the ears, foam plugs and the muff style protectors. Makes a huge difference.
 
Hearing protection, dummie rounds, lots of encouragement, and most of all a good trigger. I shoot many rounds and all my rifles have good, light, crisp triggers. I never had them when I was younger but now I wouldnt have it anyother way. All my friends shoot my rifles and are amazed how well they shoot its not the guns there is nothing fancy about my guns it is just good triggers. That is just my opinion.
 
When I have not shot in a while, I find myself flinching. I always go back to an acronym from the Army "BRASS". It not only helps me focus but also keeps me from dwelling on the perfect shot. "B" for breath, ensure you are not holding your breath unintentionally. "R" for relax, ensure you are not tensing up your body. "A" for aim, find your target point. "S" for stop breathing, actually it is the natural pause after an exhale. "S" for squeeze the trigger, not pull and it should always be a surprise.

Another dry fire exercise is for you to place a dime on the rifle barrel and let him engage the target without displacing the dime.
 
Quote:
He use to shoot my 308, now im considering putting him back on it if we cant get this sorted out.



You know, there is one thought that hasn't been brought up here, and you might be on the right track with the .308

Some people have a "comfortable" rifle. It's the one that they shoot the best, are comfortable with, and shoot without having to think about what they are doing. I have a .308 that is a very accurate weapon, and I shoot it quite often, but I am more accurate with my 223. Even though I KNOW that my .308 will out-shoot my .223, I am just more comfortable with it. I'm not recoil sensitive to the .308, I just like the .223 better. And my groups usually show it.

I think that everybody has a "favorite" gun that they just simply like better than all the others. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
I used to flinch alot when I was your kid's age. I think alot of it was the fact that my father was right there watch every tiny detail of my shooting. It was a lot of pressure because he was a marine, and a great shot, and a purist, etc. I'm 31 now. I shoot much better than him now.

What worked for me was getting back to the idea that shooting was fun. I bought a 223 (low recoil and cheap and easy to load) and went shooting by myself, I started to load for myself... in short, my shooting became "mine". I gained my own confidence. I still hunt with my dad because I enjoy that part of it, but we do not share range time.

Maybe you could just enable him to work out his problem by himself. Buy him a 223 and a case of ammo and let him practice, maybe alone? Let him make the decision about shooting the 308 or the '06. If he needs help I'm sure he knows he can ask you.

Paul
 
Camo,

Is you son shooting open sights or a scope? If a scope, have him practice dry firing with the scope set on the lowest power to minimize preceved movement of the crosshairs on the target. Have him focus focus on the target, Not the crosshairs, and squeeze the trigger. Have him practice by gradually increasing the scope power as he dry fires and not move up in magnification until he can squeeze the tigger at that power without causing the crosshairs to move.

When he masters that, have him do the same thing at the range with live ammo. Remember to have him concentrate on the target where he wants to hit and not the crosshairs in the scope. By doing this the crosshairs will line up naturally on the area of the target where he is focused. Have him say to himself on every shot "Sight Picture, Trigger squeeze".

Loading a dummy round can destroy confidence of the shooter as well as point out poor trigger control. It should only be used for someone is not receptive to training to convince them they have a big problem with trigger control.
Over use can lead to anticipation of a malfunction which is not what you should be thinking about when shooting.

Practice is the key. Master the mechanics and shooting will come naturally so the only thing you have to think about is focusing on the target and making the decision to shoot or not shoot.

Hope this helps. It is frustrating to miss and not know why.

Truckeedan
 
Most flinching is a subconscious action in anticipation of recoil, as the finger presses on the trigger (which is why it happens before the shot not after).

The best way I ever heard to defeat this mental objection is to not let the subconscious know just when the shot is going to fire. This is the 'surprise break' method. You squeeze the trigger gently and slowly enough so that you are surprised by the shot. You can't flinch because the subconscious simply doesn't know when to do it. You have to have a true surprise, not just a long slow pull that ends when you run out of patience and 'nudge' the shot off at a specific instant (which is no longer a surprise, and will produce a flinch).

This can be practiced intensely in dry fire. Eventually you can achieve a surprise at shorter and shorter intervals, a tiny fraction of a second even, yet your mind still recognizes an interval of uncertainty even there. This is the 'compressed surprise break'. Eventually the trigger reflex becomes completely subconscious and just happens when the eye sees a correct sight picture. That's how those IPCS pistol guys can shoot so fast (less than .20 second split times while seeing and evaluating sight pictures).

Takes regular practice to get there and stay there though. With a rifle you don't usually have to shoot that fast.

Another problem is steadiness. If your sights are wandering all over you are tempted to snatch the trigger as your sights cross the target. If you can get steady enough in your position that your sight wobble zone stays within the desired impact zone, and use a gentle trigger press to get a surprise break, it's pretty hard to miss.
 
Take Sleddog's advice,I'm a serious archer ,hunting,3d's,and spot. I am all to familiar with target panic. Do what he says. It takes 100% dedication. Don't think your cured after a week keep practicing. You need to retrain your mind so you don't anticipate the shoot going off. It's hard but well worth it in the end. Good luck and don't stop practicing !
 
There are shotgunners and riflemen and each has to shoot a different way.

The shotgunner is concentrating on a moving target and everything else and when it's time to shoot, they actually pull the trigger quicker and not as smootly as a rifleman.

He is a shotgunner now.

Trigger control and thinking of something else other than the big bang or the recoil is needed. Practice and confidence is needed.

I'd go back to the 22 for trigger control practice and start at basics, a refresher if you will. Others here have made good suggestion. Take a combo of them and modify them to meet your needs.

Good luck!
 
Although this particular problem seems severe, blammer did nail a point. You can be mediocre at both but to be the best you can be at either you have to give up the other.

Jack
 


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