Fox vs. Coyote?

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Prime Time

New member
Well first off this looks like a great forum. I'm a registered member of other hunting forums on the net, but this time of year my passion turns to predators, so I figured I'd find myself a 'Predator Forum' and I did!!!

My first question is why do I seem to alway's call in coyotes and never any fox? This whole coyote hunting thing has been a learning experience and I hunt with (2) other guys and every year we get better. But we have never killed a fox. We can hear them once in a while barking from a distance, but they will not come in. We also know that the areas have fox, because we either see them in the spring and summer or see fresh tracks in the snow.

Any ideas as to maybe why we aren't seeing any? My dad used to hunt fox when he was younger and he said they used to come running!!!
 
Prime Time-
First you need to understand that fox and coyotes aren't friends. If you have fox and coyotes sharing territories, the coyote will dominate the food chain, and eventually kill or run that fox out. So a fox won't rush in to a call, and put himself at risk.

Not many years back, coyotes were few and far between in many places and fox were much more eager to investigate an opportunity for an easy meal, which may explain why a caller used to see more fox during an outing.

Another thing to realize is fox (especially reds) are quite shy and more difficult to call than a coyote. Grey fox are more eager to respond, but won't compete with a yote. It's a matter of balance, security, and opportunity with these predators. Good luck.
 
Prime Time, It's hard to say for sure, but if they ( the fox ) are barking at you it sounds like they know whats up. Do you know if other hunters hunt those areas ( not to many places other hunters don't hunt nowadays ). What Kendog says is true, but a few fox well hang in there. Gray Fox dominate over Red Fox and coyotes dominate over both lol. I have been hearing the Red Fox population in many areas have been in a big decline due to the coyotes moving in. Prime Time, what ever you do, don't give up, you'll get a fox sooner or later, Good Luck and Good Hunting
 
Ya I have heard that coyotes dominate over the fox, and I figured that was the reason for the decline in #'s. Years ago (Before I was Born) my dad said they used to road hunt Fox and it wasn't uncommon to see and shoot at 4 or 5 or more a day. Those days are long gone, but we still do have fox in the area.

I figured maybe I was using the wrong call or something. But I do find it interesting that coyotes are easier to call in than fox. I thought it was the other way around. So now I don't feel so bad. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

When I hear the fox barking it's usually been from the woodline. My take is it's either a fox that doesn't want to commit to the field in fear of coyotes or it seen us. Do grey fox leave the woods very often? Maybe a Grey is what I'm hearing...
 
How do you realy know its a fox thats barking? When I lived back east I heard a lot of fox sounds but it was usually in breading season, some of the most blood curdling sounds I've ever heard. A coyote also has a number of different sounds and it is not uncommon for them to bark with low volume like a small dog. Its very possible that you heard a fox but I'd almost be willing to bet that you are hearing coyote vocalizations.
 
Prime Time - If your mainly after Fox be sure and hunt in areas where they have the cover to sneak in and see what is making all the noise. Then provide a visual decoy of some type. If a fox can see 'dinner' with enough cover not to become a Coyotes dinner you may just get the shot you're hoping for.
 
Prime Time, I never said it was easier to call coyotes because it's not. Gray fox are easier to call ( I don't know about reds ) . If you want to get really easy fox to call, try kit or swift fox. You're going to have to go out west to find them though lol. I'm sure you are going to call more coyotes then fox in most cases because there are more of them, but fox are by far easier to call. As far as the fox hanging up on you in a tree line and barking, there could be many reasons, but the biggest one is it knows you are there. I don't think we have a east vs west thing here, as we know a coyote is a coyote and a fox is a fox no matter where it lives, Good Hunting
 
Hi Prime Time,

Coyotes suck! (there, just had to get that out of my system.)

I'm very much a fan of the red fox. Here's what happened in Minnesota.

Red fox were the main predator south of the big woods up north. Up north we've always had timberwolves and a few "Brush Wolves." (Coyotes) Red fox ended up on the menue for those coyotes and even a few wolves although wolves are pretty tolerant of foxes.

There were a pile of red foxes in the southern part of the state. There were almost no coyotes or wolves in that area.

In the late 80's and early 90's, there were more foxes than you could shake a stick at. This was following the crash of the fur market when everyone got out of trapping. It was not uncommon to drive around in an afternoon and shoot four or five that were laying up in a snowbank.

along about the same time, coyotes were just starting to come into Minnesota very heavily. Still, the red fox was the staple and the coyote was a bonus when out calling.

Then came mange. It hit my neck of the woods in 1997. It hit the coyotes first but then soon spread to the foxes. When it killed 'em, it killed nearly all of them. I'd guess it wiped out over 90% of the reds and the coyotes in my area that first winter.

Mange kept the population down for a number of years. When critters started coming back, coyotes started coming back first. Their numbers started coming up a little but the foxes were still depressed from the mange. Those few foxes that remained were persecuted by the coyotes. (coyotes can't stand foxes in their territory)

Foxes and coyotes are still struggling with mange but it seems now that the majority of them don't have mange. But, with the coyote numbers so high, fox numbers will remain very low.

So, again I say "COYOTES SUCK!"

In response to your question about them barking, I'm sure it's foxes you hear barking at you. Foxes have a different sounding bark than a coyote. Coyotes are very quiet in Minnesota. Even with a locator call in the dead of night it's rare to get a vocal response.

Foxes bark for a variety of reasons but typically it's an alarm bark that warns others to stay way. One of two things is happening. Either you are getting busted and they know you are there, or they are afraid that a coyote has caught the rabbit and they are barking about the coyote they think is over there.

It's hard to call in a fox that has been barking but it can be done with some success. Almost always it will require that you change sounds. And, change to a high pitched excited sound. It seems foxes can't resist that.

Coyotes are easier to call in than red foxes in certain areas. Areas with high numbers of coyotes makes for a pretty spooky fox population. Foxes can still be had though. Coyotes come to the call in a pretty bold fashion and generally only start to swing down wind when they are close to the caller. Foxes will start their down wind swing much farther out. It's not uncommon for me to have my shooter downwind at LEAST a hundred yards to get those sneaky foxes coming in. And, we do kill foxes.

So, do me a favor and kill off every last $(# Da*&ed coyote you see.

Did I mention that coyotes suck?

Randy
 
Thanks Randy for that information!!! Ya my dad used to say all he needed to do was drive around and he'd see fox out sunning themselves. I must say I have never seen it. :rolleyes: I've seen many fox, but very few while out hunting. And what I'm hearing I really feel is a fox, and not a coyote, but I could be wrong. But the sound is different than every other coyote sound I've ever heard made and like Randy said the coyotes don't seem to say much around here. I have heard a coyote warning bark and it doesn't sound the same as that. A Fox just has such a nice pelt that I would really like to get a few, so thanks everyone for your comments and keep the info coming.

Sometimes I mix coyote barks with the calling. I'm sure that would stop any fox from even coming close.
 
Yup, stop with the coyote barks. They aren't really even very helpful in Minnesota to get coyotes to come in. They will jinx a fox for sure.

Keep at it. I've got a buddy in Mantorville who says he's seen more foxes this year than he has for a long, long time. Hunting might be pretty good if we get any snow and cold.

Randy,

PS, keep me posted on how you are doing.
 
In my neck of the woods, if you want FOX one must wait until the sun goes down behind the mountain.
Night time is when those litter critters will come on in to bait. Calling them into shooting range is still hard to accomplish.

Years ago there were more hill farms in out lying areas, many more rabbits to come to as I remember things back then. There were hardly any coyotes in our county back then, as I remember as a kid. A lot more trappers too! Seldom did anyone of them have a coyote pelt. Yotes have taken over and they are far more able to adapt to changing elements around them verses fox.
 
Last season the dog runners had such poor luck they started letting there hounds chase fox. It's hard to say what the fox numbers will be like this winter. I have heard a few deer hunters comment on seeing coyote. We'll see when the snow hits,
 
In the 60's my brother and I ran a sizeable trapline and carried a Rem .17 and a shotgun. We never saw a coyote, though there were a few around. In our best year we shot and trapped 324 fox. The $60-75 pelts and $5 bounties paid his college tuition and books for two years. The mink paid his room and board, and travel expenses. The ducks and pheasants and rabbits fed us both.

These days the fox/coyote ratio has reversed. I like popping the coyotes, but the red fox will forever have a place in my heart.
 
Here in Ohio Well the southern part of the state where im from, we seem to have a good population of both coyote and fox. Alot more grey fox than reds. And lots of coyotes. The greys seem to be easy to call at night and we get more coyotes and reds in the day. Last year between two of us calling togeather we killed 26 greys and only 2 reds. And 14 coyotes I think. Some of them came from KY. But I know how you feel I haft to go to Ky to have a chance to call bobcats.

I killed a coyote last week that had the mange I hope that dont get started here. Thats the second one this year out of that area that had it. Foxes from that area 5 so far have been ok.
 
Randy,
Nice website you got there! I just got done reading the whole thing and found it very informative. The past few day's after posting this on the forum I've been thinking about were I've seen the most Fox in my area and it's not the areas we hunt coyote. I see most of the fox on the flatter crop land and swamps around my house. Not in the wooded bluffs were we mostly hunt coyotes. So probable my biggest problem is not hunting were a majority of the foxes are. But the funniest thing about this is. Thinking back to the past (3) springs. All the litters of foxes I've seen have been on gravel roads up in the wooded bluff areas? Every year there are litters in the same spots and the pups sit on the road from time to time. Very cute, but come Fall/Winter they are no were to be seen!!!
 
Gee Randy, could you quit beating around the bush and tell us what you REALLY think of coyotes?!! LOL!
Seriously, that was an awesome post, highly informative that you wrote! Thanks! ---- Mike
 
Due to the fact coyotes compete directly with foxes and often kill their fox competitors, red foxes like to hang out close to small towns. There are red foxes in and around every small town in northcentral Kansas.

I only think coyotes suck when they refuse to be medicated with .22-250 medicine. Every coyote should walk into to within 100 yards for a medical checkup.
 
I shot this one yesterday in the middle of very thick stuff. I was using an e caller of a cottaintale rabbit. got him in to about twenty yards. My very first predator to call in.

Jeff

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