Getting a bit frustrated

RSG223 said:
Tell me why?
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Very much in agreement with jmeddy... About the only time I will challenge is when I have one actually screaming back at my calls. Even then, it is a last resort when nothing else seems to get them to commit. I dare say that challenge barks/howls are probably the lowest percentage calls of all vocals that I throw out.
 
Dew Claw said:
Looks like I'm not the only one. I don't see them as out there running the buddy system unless it's family. I will throw vocals out there to talk to them when they are howling around me just for fun but never had any come in. I've had them close and tried vocals but they disappear.
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To be clear, i am just talking challenge/aggressive vocals. I kill more with vocals than prey distress—in the neighborhood of 3 to 1.
 
jmeddy said:
In my experiences unless l am dealing with the bad ass of the neighborhood every other coyote retreats when they hear challenges. I had so many negative encounters that l never use them anymore electric or mouth calls.
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That's very interesting and I appreciate the heads up. This being my second season with an e-caller and coyote sounds I have been using the male and the female challenge howl a lot! I will save them and use them like @hunt0168 mentions.
 
Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and suggestions everyone! I guess I just have to put the time in to figure it out with this new way of calling.
 
Dig into those FoxPro Podcasts RSG... Especially the ones with Torry Cook where he and Jon Collins do the breakdowns for each season. Right now would be the Breeding season breakdowns and I think they have done 3 of them. They also always mention the actual sound files and the sequences they use them. The latest is a breeding season podcast with Big Al Morris. Big Al has my respect for his accomplishments, and he's got a big personality, but you'll get more useful information from the Torry Cook episodes. Just my opinion anyway.

Stick with it buddy. You already know the hardest parts of the game from your previous years of calling. Adding vocals correctly into your sequences at the right time should only add to your success. You'll be stacking them soon!
 
hunt0168 said:
Dig into those FoxPro Podcasts RSG... Especially the ones with Torry Cook where he and Jon Collins do the breakdowns for each season.

Stick with it buddy. You already know the hardest parts of the game from your previous years of calling. Adding vocals correctly into your sequences at the right time should only add to your success. You'll be stacking them soon!
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Thanks pal! I've watched a few of his podcasts but will review a few more and pay closer attention.
 
UPDATE!

So this morning I went out and on my way to my first spot I saw a coyote in the field near home, so that was a good sign!

On my first stand at sun up I gave a invitation howl and got an immediate response but very far off. I tried working them but they wouldn't play. So 25 minutes goes by and I am getting cold, it was -23c (9.4 deg) and I figure nothing is happening and just as I pick up my stuff who shows up but Mr. coyote. No gun in hand and standing there like a dummy, he turns and bolts. Oh well, at least I'm starting to figure these e-callers out. I think hunting the morning is making a difference as one person said to try, they seem way more active then.
 
RSG223 said:
UPDATE!

So this morning I went out and on my way to my first spot I saw a coyote in the field near home, so that was a good sign!

On my first stand at sun up I gave a invitation howl and got an immediate response but very far off. I tried working them but they wouldn't play. So 25 minutes goes by and I am getting cold, it was -23c (9.4 deg) and I figure nothing is happening and just as I pick up my stuff who shows up but Mr. coyote. No gun in hand and standing there like a dummy, he turns and bolts. Oh well, at least I'm starting to figure these e-callers out. I think hunting the morning is making a difference as one person said to try, they seem way more active then.
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PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE WEEDHOPPER:). 15min of silence!!!
 
That’s a tough break RSG, but it’s a lesson learned.

Figure out how to stay warmer longer and stay alert. East coast guys like myself and jmeddy don’t have coyotes behind every tree. I get the idea that you’re in the same boat. Quiet time after every set is routine for me. Lots of blank stands are pretty normal. When you get a vocal response it gives you a bit of incentive to wait things out even longer. 15-20 minutes or even longer of quiet can lead to success. I know a lot of guys don’t have the patience for it, or just don’t think it’s worth it. The way I look at it, when you’ve put in 8-10 blanks and then get a response, it’s totally worth putting in another half hour!
 
RSG223 said:
UPDATE!

So this morning I went out and on my way to my first spot I saw a coyote in the field near home, so that was a good sign!

On my first stand at sun up I gave a invitation howl and got an immediate response but very far off. I tried working them but they wouldn't play. So 25 minutes goes by and I am getting cold, it was -23c (9.4 deg) and I figure nothing is happening and just as I pick up my stuff who shows up but Mr. coyote. No gun in hand and standing there like a dummy, he turns and bolts. Oh well, at least I'm starting to figure these e-callers out. I think hunting the morning is making a difference as one person said to try, they seem way more active then.
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I had a similar experience once and it caused me to re-think my stand breakdown. First, I am never without firearm in hand, when I collect my e-call it goes with me. Then I sit down to pack everything except my seat, all the while scanning, scanning. I do as Hunt0168 said, be quiet and no more movement for at least 20 minutes. I have had success with coyotes and bobcats using this method. Silence can be golden!
 
RSG223 said:
No I haven't, probably a good idea to try that after dark correct?
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If you hunt a lot of mornings, drive to a few spots before sunrise and locate them, single lone howl, if they answer leave immediately they may show up and you dont want a truck to be associated with the vocals, once it gets light out they will be close by if they answer.

As others have said a challenge is an aggressive sound, will spook young or insubordinate dogs. I have had it work when challenged or if I hear an old raspy male in a group that is howling back aggressively. Had one years ago getting real aggressive with me, I challenged it one time then shut up, 15min later it popped out my buddy dropped it, one eye was gone and pussy scarred up face and still wanting to fight.
 
Quick question, I got out tonight for a few stands and the last one at dusk was my best spot. I started off with prey distress calls quiet and ramped up over 10 minutes. I then tossed in a few fem invitational howls then a male long howl then back to rabbit distress. I sat quite for the last 10 minutes finishing a 40 minute stand and then started to pack up as it was almost dark, just then a group of coyotes started to yip and howl like crazy way north of me and well up wind, probably about 2 miles by the sound of it across the river so i sat back down and gave them a coyote pair but never heard back. I stayed for another 15 minutes but nothing showed.

My question - Is it common for them to howl like that randomly much later despite my howls I gave earlier in the set? It's like my calls didn't even matter to them. Could it have been due to them being across the river, sort of like it was not their territory to come to investigate.

I'm really trying hard to figure out coyote vocals and how they respond to them.
 
At two miles (estimated) I would say it was just a coincidence that they fired off. If they were actually responding to your calls I doubt they would ever show up from that distance. Possibly in wide open country (which I do not have) with no barriers like roads and woodlots they might? In my region a two mile response is an ignored response.
 
Don't get frustrated. Coyote calling is a numbers game, I know, nobody said there'd be math involved, but there is. I'm up to stand 16 now without seeing anything, but I know the numbers will work in my favor. Just got to be patient, on average I call in a coyote every 8 - 10 stands so the numbers are adding up into my favor.
They will for you too.
 
Sprinkman said:
Don't get frustrated. Coyote calling is a numbers game, I know, nobody said there'd be math involved, but there is.
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Thanks man! I agree and have looked at it that way for years, I keep track of all my stands and have found the same thing. Sometimes I might go 20 stands before calling one, then might see a few in a row thereafter. I just figured adding coyote vocals would up my success but it seems that's not the case :rolleyes: I'll keep putting my time it.....
 
RSG223 said:
I sort of figured that, nice to hear it from others I guess! So what I'm learning is just because you are using coyote vocals there's still no guarantee they will respond.
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Only guarantee in calling coyotes is that there’s no guarantees! 😉

Vocals are just another tool in your calling arsenal. Never a guarantee they’ll respond, but sometimes they’re just the ticket. In the end, it’s always up to the coyotes.
 
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