Grouping @ 300m with M16?

canislatrans54

canislatrans54

New member
My boy is goin' thru Army basics. I sent him some targets that his older brother/& me shot @ the range with Stevens 223. At 100 yds. we averaged .5"-.75" with 3 & 5 shot groups. He said when his DS & buddies looked at them they laughed. So did my son, I guess.

My son claims that after only 6 weeks, he can shoot better than .5" groups @ 300m with his M16. He claims his instructor can shoot even better groups.

My question is...could this be true, from a 17 yr. old who had never shot a gun until now?

Also, what generally is different between M16 & ARs?

Thanks.
 
Sir,

I am not trying to sound like I am calling your son a liar but let's look at it this way. MOA at 300yds is 3". MOA at 300 meters is not much bigger. Anyone that is shooting a well built rifle with some good glass would be doing some trully unique work shooting .5" groups at 300 meters.

Now unless they have changed things since I was in the service, recruits qualify with a standard M16 with iron sights. .5" at 300 meters with iron sights- does that sound realistic to you? And the DS can do better? I think there might be some exageration going on there. No disrespect intended.
 
You will know when he gets out of basic. If he can shoot anything like that he will be instantly assigned to the Army Marksmanship Unit at Fort Benning.

Jack
 
Be on the Olympic Team, Win all the National titles, and set numerous new shooting world records! I don't think you could even luck shoot .5 at 300 meters!
 
BAsic Training is alive and well. He can do anything. He'll eventually become more realistic. Sounds like he's enjoying his trigger time though! God Bless him for joining up!
 
Does he know what a decimal point is? Like, 0.5 inches?

Or, maybe they're just measuring one-shot groups. If so, I'd like to know how the DS's one-shot groups are smaller than everybody else's. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Well, at least I'm not the only one who thinks my son & his bunch are full of sh*t. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
By the way, none of you offended me, so don't fret. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
In fact, I have a little hunt scheduled with him in late October, when he's home. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif He has only went calling with me once, several years ago. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I told him, "I'd bet you're not shooting those M16's from a bench, so let's go out to Grandpa's pasture & you can teach me how to shoot @ 300 m." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
I'm gonna laugh my rear off if he misses an "easy" shot at the coyote I call in for him. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif (He's never shot at a coyote, but he insists "that's gonna be SO easy".) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

What are the main differences between the M16 & the AR? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
I don't know if it is [beeep] or not, but the only targets that I ever shot at were human silhouettes. They were always more concerned with hitting center mass and not the size of the group that you were shooting. Now when I got to my unit and had snipers in with us, they were a little bit more concerned with grouping, but for obvious reasons. However, I am sure that times have changed since I was in ten years ago. We never had scopes on our M16's, and for most basic training rifles they are pretty well worn out. That's my $.02. I think he is pulling your chain.

Frank
 
Quote:
What are the main differences between the M16 & the AR?



M16 has full auto and 3 shot burst ability. An AR-15 is semi-auto. Really the only difference.
 
The M16 is the military version of an AR. Several variations have evolved over the years and differences vary but the one constant is that the military version is an automatic and the AR is semi-auto.
 
Quote:
Does he know what a decimal point is? Like, 0.5 inches?



It's not the decimals, it's the metric system. He meant to say .5" groups at 300mm.
 
Quote:
God Bless him for joining up!



AMEN TO THAT! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

I hope you're proud of him even though he may be exagerating a little (haven't we all?).
 
Oh yeah, I'm VERY proud of him!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

But from our chats before he left for basics, I'm not sure he knows what he's in for--if he goes to Iraq or any other fighting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Don't get me wrong...I'm for the war on terror. The idiot terrorists should have NEVER rattled our cage!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif

I just don't think he understood, at the time, what he might be faced with. Unfortunately, he is very much a Liberal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gifBut he does have the guts to do something I never did, so for that, I'm grateful. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif

Hopefully, he will achieve his goal someday...to be a lawyer/legislator. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
(I just hope he changes his political views before then. Otherwise, I might have to vote against him.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
As a retired military man, I say, "God bless him and protect him for signing up."

The M-16/AR-15 is a fine rifle. With the right optics a well maintained weapon can shoot .5" groups at ONE HUNDRED yards. Even my 24" Varminter from the BENCH would not shoot that size group at THREE HUNDRED... They are PLENTY accurate enough, but not THAT accurate.

Enjoy your Coyote hunt when he gets home. Then get him a beer (to wash down the "Crow" he'll be eating...)

I also feel that, with what our fine military is facing today, his "liberal" days are probably numbered. Coming face to face with the realities of todays military mission will likely temper his tolerance for "warm and fuzzy" liberal ideologies.

I was just a stupid punk kid when I joined at 18. The military got my "attitude adjusted and my head on right."

I hope all goes well with your son, and with your family... May we all continue to recognize and honor the sacrifices made by our military and their families.
 
When I was in (is it already 30 years ago?) the only time that you fired for a group was at 25 meters to sight in. (You didn't see very meeny groups under a .5" even then.) After that you were firing at silhouette's hooked up to a computer system that recorded your hits and dropped the target if/when you hit it.

When he gets home from basic take him to the range and tell him to put his money were his mouth is, 3 groups at 300 yards, if he can't do it he coughs up $100.00 for each group over .5". If he can do it you pay him $100.00 for each group .5' or smaller. It'll be the easiest $300.00 you ever made.
 
What I can't get over is that the DS is sitting around chatting with the boys about group sizes. When I was in basic (22 years ago) the DS's were something to be feared and revered but both from a distance.
 
Doyle,
What I gathered from his letter isn't that the DS was sittin' around with 'em. (although I guess he might've been.)
I guess my son asked him (in mixed company) whether it was OK for my son to keep the targets/playing cards that my oldest son/I had used for target practice.
(I had sent them, thinking he might get the itch to hunt with "the old man" when he was home on leave.)

Thanks for the responses guys.

Dang, I miss Cody now.LOL
 
many people i find never even measuring their groups, just guestimating, and they might not even be measuring from the inside of the bullet hole like your supposed to.
 
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