Inferior action???

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BOBTAILS

BOBTAILS

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I read a post recently where a guy built a nice custom gun on a Winchester action out of choice
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??? I know wierd huh! He stated that he chose this cause he would not use a inferior Remington 700 action... Inferior????
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I guess somebody is going to have to enlighten me on this one cause if the Remington 700 action is so inferior then why does every custom action maker use Remington to base their actions around, such as BigHorn, Stiller, Surgeon, Borden, Defiance, Bat, Nesika Bay, Lawton, Pierce, Stolle and the rest
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! Anybody????
 
Some folks feel the need of a huge claw like extractor and CRF. That way, if you have to reload, hanging from a tree, you're ok.

Some folks don't like what just works...they need to over complicate things.
 
i am in the early stages of building/ buying a dangerous game rifle. i want controlled round feed when the animal you are shooting at can eat you or stomp you to death.

i have 70's and 700's. i like the safety on the 70's better.
 
I'm just glad we don't all have to think and be alike. If you took a vote on here to determine what we all have to shoot, by majority it would probably be a Savage Axis, or at best a Savage 200 selling for under $500. If that was the case I'd probably take up checkers.

I've had several very nice custom rifles built, by choice, on Win 70 CRF actions, both old and new. They all shoot and function very well. I've also had a couple of custom rifles built on Rem 700 actions. Ditto for them on function and accuracy. As well as several other factory and custom actions that most people would recognize. For the average Minnesota white tail hunter, CRF or not is insignificant. For other situations it's maybe not as insignificant of a choice.

Is one better than the other? For me - It maybe depends on what day of the week it is and whether the sun is shining or not - and what my plans are for the day. Still, if I had to choose having just only one rifle, it would more than likely be a CRF Model 70. YMMV based on your personal tastes and I can totally live with that and not look over my shoulder even once wondering if I had something inferior to what the next guy has.
 
I have two riflesmiths, one in Missouri and one in Texas, that have built seven custom rifles for me. Both do nothing but custom builds and will not build on a Winchester 70 action. When I asked why, both gave me the two same primary reasons.

1. a round action (Remington) is much easier to blueprint well, something having to do with mounting it on a lathe for the many blueprinting operations.

2. without detailed blueprinting, it is more difficult to make the rifle shoot with super accuracy. What a custom riflesmith charges nowadays demands the rifle be super accurate, at least more accurate than factory. Both smiths claim they formerly did Win 70s, but could not guarantee the accuracy levels compared to the Rem 700s and Savages, and of course, the custom actions.

Take a look at the long range shooting game, and at our military snipers. They use over 90% Remington based actions. That tells me something.........
 
Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI read a post recently where a guy built a nice custom gun on a Winchester action out of choice
crazy.gif
??? I know wierd huh! He stated that he chose this cause he would not use a inferior Remington 700 action... Inferior????
scared.gif
I guess somebody is going to have to enlighten me on this one cause if the Remington 700 action is so inferior then why does every custom action maker use Remington to base their actions around, such as BigHorn, Stiller, Surgeon, Borden, Defiance, Bat, Nesika Bay, Lawton, Pierce, Stolle and the rest
thumbup.gif
! Anybody????

See there, you answered your own question. Rem. 700's are inferior so other companies like Stiller, ect. set about to improve them and had to charge a lot for the improved action because it took a lot to improve it.
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OR,
Because they can charge more money since the 700 action is inferior and can't charge as much with superior actions like my Kimber.
whistle.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: MongoMikeI have two riflesmiths, one in Missouri and one in Texas, that have built seven custom rifles for me. Both do nothing but custom builds and will not build on a Winchester 70 action. When I asked why, both gave me the two same primary reasons.

1. a round action (Remington) is much easier to blueprint well, something having to do with mounting it on a lathe for the many blueprinting operations.

2. without detailed blueprinting, it is more difficult to make the rifle shoot with super accuracy. What a custom riflesmith charges nowadays demands the rifle be super accurate, at least more accurate than factory. Both smiths claim they formerly did Win 70s, but could not guarantee the accuracy levels compared to the Rem 700s and Savages, and of course, the custom actions.

Take a look at the long range shooting game, and at our military snipers. They use over 90% Remington based actions. That tells me something.........

To this I'll add:

1. If I had a smith who couldn't figure out how to barrel a flat action (not round) like a Model 70 action and make it accurate, I'd find a more experienced gunsmith.

2. "Detailed blue printing" is way over rated as far as improving the accuracy of a rifle goes.

As an aside on the military issue, I personally STILL know and regularly communicate with two very good former snipers from the 1960's war that the US fought. Both were handicapped with inferior Model 70 Winchester sniper rifles. So were a few others. Like most things - hopefully excluding open heart surgery - we tend to go with the low bid. Our government thrives on that kind of mediocrity, especially in this day and age.

No action type is inherently more accurate than another if each is set up properly by a gunsmith who knows what he is doing. Some cost more than others to "do it right", but not all smith know what is "right" in some instances. So they tend to work with what they know and some even bad mouth the guy down the street in hopes of getting your business. Individual specimens of any and all actions (factory and custom to a lesser extent) can and will be either terrible or great in production form.

As an aside to the OP's original comments, Nesika Bay make an excellent flat bottom action. I own a couple.
 
Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI guess somebody is going to have to enlighten me on this one cause if the Remington 700 action is so inferior then why does every custom action maker use Remington to base their actions around, such as BigHorn, Stiller, Surgeon, Borden, Defiance, Bat, Nesika Bay, Lawton, Pierce, Stolle and the rest
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! Anybody????
YES.........Its due to the fact they can be massed produced very, very cheaply and sold at very high prices with funky names and the suckers line up for them..................
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You asked........and someone has to be sarcastic.
 
Quote:You asked........and someone has to be sarcastic.

Hey 5spd, back off, that's my job.
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Here's a serious question regarding this subject. What action do foreign country militarizes use for a sniper rifle?
 
Originally Posted By: K22Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI read a post recently where a guy built a nice custom gun on a Winchester action out of choice
crazy.gif
??? I know wierd huh! He stated that he chose this cause he would not use a inferior Remington 700 action... Inferior????
scared.gif
I guess somebody is going to have to enlighten me on this one cause if the Remington 700 action is so inferior then why does every custom action maker use Remington to base their actions around, such as BigHorn, Stiller, Surgeon, Borden, Defiance, Bat, Nesika Bay, Lawton, Pierce, Stolle and the rest
thumbup.gif
! Anybody????

See there, you answered your own question. Rem. 700's are inferior so other companies like Stiller, ect. set about to improve them and had to charge a lot for the improved action because it took a lot to improve it.
sneaky2.gif
grin.gif

OR,
Because they can charge more money since the 700 action is inferior and can't charge as much with superior actions like my Kimber.
whistle.gif


You need to seriously think about getting those inferior Kimber actions "rounded out" so they'll shoot better. I'm thinking about having it done myself to my Kimbers, but I'm not sure if I can find a smith who can square one up to do the lathe work - based on internet information I've recently gathered about good gunsmiths.
 
Originally Posted By: K22Quote:
You asked........and someone has to be sarcastic.


Hey 5spd, back off, that's my job.
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I represent that remark!!!
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For those that worship at the alter of ""Custom actions", lemme ask you this.

Why are there always, like weekly... threads on the benchrest and "accuracy" forums about bolt lugs galling and which kind of techno-grease you need to use to keep your $1,000 custom action from self destructing...

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3794075.0

... and you never, ever, see a thread about a Rem 700 or Win M-70 bolt lugs galling... it's cuz they never gall, or self destruct.

I'll take a well done Win M-70. Rem-700, or 40-XB over a "custom" action every day of the week.

I have several Rem 40-XB that I bought close to 40 years ago, and NEVER greased... one has been through 5 barrels... no problems, no galling.

Let a Custom action do that.


 
I have never played a lot with the Winchester actions. Just seemed to me everybody is copying remmys for a reason. I think they are the best all around production action to build from. Not to mention the largest aftermarket following of options for everything. Seems the round bottom makes it easier to bed too. In my few that I've bedded seemed like it worked well.

K22. I like the looks of those kimbers though. Guess I'm just not fan of the winnys.
 
Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI have never played a lot with the Winchester actions. Just seemed to me everybody is copying remmys for a reason. I think they are the best all around production action to build from. Not to mention the largest aftermarket following of options for everything. Seems the round bottom makes it easier to bed too. In my few that I've bedded seemed like it worked well.

K22. I like the looks of those kimbers though. Guess I'm just not fan of the winnys.

As a few have already stated, the 700's are easier and cheaper to make and easier and cheaper to improve upon. That in itself does not make something else inferior, especially if you don't know much about the inferior "stuff".
 
My real point is we each like our own for our own reasons, but I really don't think you can fairly call the Remington actions inferior.
 
Originally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSI have never played a lot with the Winchester actions. Just seemed to me everybody is copying remmys for a reason. I think they are the best all around production action to build from. Not to mention the largest aftermarket following of options for everything. Seems the round bottom makes it easier to bed too. In my few that I've bedded seemed like it worked well.

K22. I like the looks of those kimbers though. Guess I'm just not fan of the winnys.

As a few have already stated, the 700's are easier and cheaper to make and easier and cheaper to improve upon. That in itself does not make something else inferior, especially if you don't know much about the inferior "stuff".

I never called any action inferior. I was simply posting what was said about remmys.
 
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